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Raspberry Pi 3 on Sale (raspberrypi.org)
677 points by MarcScott on Feb 29, 2016 | hide | past | web | favorite | 304 comments

What has changed:

- Wifi Built-in

    - IEEE 802.11b/g/n support
    - A maximum transmit and receive rate of 150 Mbps
    - Supports both 20 MHz and 40 MHz channels
    - Supports Infrastructure mode, Wi-Fi Direct and soft-AP mode
    - Supports WPA, WPA2 (802.11i), AES/TKIP, IEEE 802.1X and WAPI
    - A maximum transmission power 15 dbm
    - Operating Frequency 2.4 MHz – 2.497 MHz
- Bluetooth Built-in

- New System on chip (BCM2837 reported to be 1.5x speed of previous gen)

- Chip is now 64bit ARMv8 QUAD Core 64bit processor

- MicroSD Card swapped out. Not more annoying spring ejection system that breaks.

- Position of status LEDs has changed (there is a chip antenna where they used to be).

- New power switching for 2.5Amp power supply.

What is the same:

- Same USB/Ethernet controller

- Same form factor

- Same GPIO

Source (with images): http://raspberry.piaustralia.com.au/raspberry-pi-3-model-b-c...

Thanks for the detailed summary.

> Same GPIO

To clarify, this means exactly the same GPIO capabilities (no extras like analog inputs, etc), as opposed to full GPIO compatibility with previous generations?

Also, any idea when documentation for the new SoC will be released (i.e. the equivalent of this, for the bcm2837: https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentation/hardware/raspberry...)? Said documentation could, of course, answer the above question, but I can't find any yet.

Exactly the same capabilities, though very low-level code might notice a difference because the main UART is now used for Bluetooth, so the GPIOs use the mini-UART which is apparently affected by overclocking.

I'm so happy it has builtin wifi. No more finicky dodgy USB dongles that get lost!

No kidding, it was otherwise such a simple thing to tuck away and use even for GPIO/breadboarding projects, but then you had to find one or two dongles to handle wifi/bluetooth turning the whole thing from handheld to a cluster of wires, dongles and connectors.

Massive improvement if that was all that happened.

It is still a cluster of wires - hdmi, power, usb, audio. USB WiFi & BT dongles are as small as 5mm outside the socket.

Is the audio any good? Would it compete on the level of an airport express?

Actually (unrelated to Pi 3), audio was recently improved in an experimental driver.

From the engineer who worked on it:

> I reimplemented the original PWM-based 11-bit audio @48kHz as 7-bit 2nd-order Sigma-Delta modulated at 781.25kHz. The effective noise floor with this scheme approximates that of CD-quality audio DACs.

from the forums https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=1364...

That is a superlative discovery, and extremely intriguing. Thank you for sharing it!

No, the audio by default is pretty crap. There are several add-on daughterboards/hats available that use the i2s port to give better audio.

Yup, RPI's internal audio sounds rather dull, which you might not notice until you buy an external DAC :D.

The RPI can do great audio out of the box without USB, just don't use the 3.5mm jack. Instead, remember that HDMI does uncompressed bitstream audio!

You can connect the RPI to a dac/amp with HDMI input or a digital audio extractor. The best quality will be found by connecting to an HDMI to SPDIF extractor and then running that into a good quality DAC.

The nice thing about this solution is that you're not dependent on the horrible and CPU-sucking USB offered by the RPI.

How to connect a single hdmi cable to a monitor AND an amp?

HDMI amplifiers, DACs, and audio extractors (which give a clean digital bitstream on SPDIF) provide an HDMI output. The output HDMI will continue to carry the video portion of the signal and usually (if not always) the audio stream as well.

That is a nice hack! I'm going to have to plug the HDMI port into my stereo amp and try this out.

If it's the same as the previous models: no, the audio of the Raspberry Pi is pretty rudimentary (it uses PWM) [1]. However, you can use an external DAC to improve this.

[1] http://www.crazy-audio.com/2014/07/sound-quality-of-the-rasp...

A couple of years ago I bought a Raspberry Pi 2 to use as a music server. However, when playing through a Benchmark USB DAC I hear pops and clicks in the audio. Instead I bought a Cubox and use its Toslink output which works perfectly. Does anyone know if the USB audio issue have been fixed in the third version of the Raspberry Pi?

I had no problems with the first Raspberry Pi and a fiio e10k USB DAC.

Did the same and had clicks with a different USB DAC. I'm waiting to hear whether this one works too!

Connecting the analog audio of the RPi (1B) to my receiver causes the receiver's CPU to slow down to the point where it is unusable! It looks like the RPi puts out a DC-biased signal, and the receiver is seriously lacking input robustness. The two devices were also connected via HDMI, ruling out ground issues.

I've since moved the music setup to also use HDMI (the DAC in the receiver is bound to be better anyway), but sheesh, be warned.

How on earth do you know what your receiver's CPU is doing?

The UI slows down gradually until the whole thing is unresponsive, reproducibly. IIRC disconnect the analog input, and the UI picks right back up.

I've no idea if it's a priority interrupt firing too much, body diode current weirdness, or some thermal issue. And I'm certainly not going to keep teasing the fault to figure it out.

Yeah, wow. That's wacky.

    MicroSD Card swapped out. Not more annoying spring ejection system that breaks.
What does this mean? I didn't see anything about this in the announcement.

The cardholder used to be a push-to-eject type, but apparently this was unpopular. Sometimes failing to eject, sometimes too easy to trigger (since it's protruding and not recessed in casework). Now it's just a friction fit.

That's interesting. The original Pi was a friction fit (full-size SD card), but that was unpopular, so they switched to the spring-eject system for Micro-SD. Seems they cannot make up their minds which one they prefer.

According to the third post on this forum thread [1] they don't do fat channels so WiFi is limited to 20 MHz / 72 Mbit/s.

The CPU is Cortex-A53. Cache sizes reportedly same as on the Pi 2, 32K data + 32K code + 512K level 2. RAM still 1Gbyte 900MHz.

[1] https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=1379...

2.5A? That fills me with worry, as i have yet to see one of those that do not assume the device will be Apple, and thus implement their signaling on the data pins.

The original quote is: "This time round, we’re recommending a 2.5A adapter if you want to connect power-hungry USB devices to the Raspberry Pi."

Sounds like you'll be find if you use the original 2A power supply and NOT connect power hungry stuff.

Yeah, AdaFruit¹ seems to agree:

Lastly, there’s an upgraded switched power source that goes up to 2.5 Amps instead of just 2 Amps - allowing your Pi to power even more powerful devices over USB ports.

Note: Our 5V 2A power supply still works great with the Pi 3. For most uses, you don't need 2.5 amps of power and our 5V2A supply should be sufficient.

Still, it would be nice if they did make/source a generic USB wall adapter that can supply 2.5 A of current. Hopefully, this new Raspberry Pi will increase the demand for such a thing.


¹ — https://www.adafruit.com/product/3055

They do; it's a 2.5A, 5.1V adaptor. I've ordered one myself (from here: http://au.rs-online.com/web/p/plug-in-power-supply/9098135/?...)

previously you'd have had a wifi dongle in one slot, plus then maybe mouse and keyboard... likely to be fine with the same power supply for the same use cases as before. Don't try and run your christmas tree off it.

No mention of the amount of RAM anywhere.

1GB of LPDDR2-900, the same as before.

Thats too bad, Odroid C2 has 2GB ram (and is 4x a53 @2ghz, with gige) and is only $5 more list.

(And, if you compare with prices in stores that have it available, is actually cheaper).

Unless what was typed is not true, I disagree with the downvotes. I'm someone thinking about getting a pi and I find information on alternatives helpful in making my decision.

There is also Orange Pi Plus 2 with 2GB RAM, 1.6GHz, WiFi, SATA, GbEth for $49.

Too bad it still doesn't have SATA, USB3 and Gigabit Ethernet.But this is already big step forward, wifi, bluetooth and a better cpu for the same price. The next generation will look even more promising. Currently I am just using my obsolete wifi dongle for my rasp

> Too bad it still doesn't have SATA, USB3 and Gigabit Ethernet.

It costs $35 and comes with ethernet, wifi, and a quad-core processor.

Furthermore, it's fully supported in linux.

That's terribly awesome for what it is.

A decade ago you had to spend 50x that amount of cash to get a laptop with those specs, without linux support.

No matter how you cut it, the Raspberry Pi 3 is not bad from any angle. At all.

>That's terribly awesome for what it is.

Truly awesome, yes indeed .. and from my perspective, completely out of left-field. Fact is, this kind of evolution rewards those who invest in the platform, and is definitely a key indicator of a successful platform strategy, wherein the benefits of standardization and compatibility, applied along Moorse curve, results in the platform becoming more and more useful. Really great that they're able to maintain the price-point, the form-factor, GPIO compatibility, and so on; all the while pushing the platform into "workstation-class" territory, bit by bit.

The only thing that would make it better .. truly, the only thing .. is if we had the ability to go up to 16gigs of RAM. RAM is lacking, but still the machine is awesome. (I'll just assume that the next $35 investment in the rPi dream that I'll make, will fix this issue..)

I've ordered rPi 3, I'm a true believer, for it to sit atop a bundle of stacks of every other rPi released so far .. and, it seems, the rPi revolution is beneficial to everyone.

I mean, this class of workstation device, for a Linux desktop system, for .. ~$50 worth of investment .. phenomenal!

I hope we see more stuff like this, and it forces the mobile power-horses to re-consider bundling the compiler onboard.

Fun Fact: with this new rev of rPi, I can develop software for the fleet-of-rPi's like never before, i.e. it'll be usable enough to just ditch the cross-compiler and other bunk needed to maintain dominance in a tech-soaked garden of various walls, smokes and mirrors .. so instead of giving my customers an App-store link this year, I think I'll just put the working system in the mail.


> The only thing that would make it better .. truly, the only thing .. is if we had the ability to go up to 16gigs of RAM.

Yeah, I keep thinking about how a tiny device with oodles of RAM would be such a killer Redis or static asset server. Or even a killer database server, for read-heavy loads.

Although am not even sure if that would be possible in the near future - for SoC's like the BCM2837, the RAM is on the same chip as the CPU+GPU, right? I don't even know if it would be feasible to build gobs of RAM into a package like that.

Of course, RPi's are still freaking awesome, and I am happy they exist.

No, the RAM is a separate chip. On the BCM2835 devices they use a package-on-package arrangement so on casual inspection they look like the same chip. On the Pi 2 and Pi 3 the RAM is on the bottom of the board.

There is apparently an architectural limit in the Videocore 4 that limits it to 1Gbyte.

I'm not sayings its a bad deal, I just personally hoped for usb 3.0 or sata for faster connected IO, or gigabit ethernet for faster remote IO

You probably want a computer designed around performance instead of "community". Check out the Odroid C2. It's got a 64 bit quad core CPU (just* like the Pine and RPi3) but clocked at 2GHz. And has real gigabit. And has twice as much ram. And can drive a 4k screen comfortably. Sadly no USB3. You can get that, but in boards that cost $70.

The C2 goes on sale in like one or two days for $40. (edit: You can buy in now on HK's website.) Kind of a childish move for the RPi Foundation to be making so much noise about their new board right now, actually. (edit: Okay, benbenben makes a fair and accurate point. Several boards, including the first, have been released at the end of February.)

* Not entirely just like. It's an Amlogic chip instead of Broadcom or Allwinner. Amlogic is one of the few without blatant GPL abuse.

"Kind of a childish move for the RPi Foundation to be making so much noise about their new board right now, actually."

It's their fourth birthday, a pretty good time to release a new/updated product, no?

1st birthday?

True, my bad.

odroid? you forgot $20 shipping for $40 board.

Only if you order directly from Korea. Normally you buy from a distributor. For example, Ameridroid will be shipping the C2 on March 4th and their fee is $6.75.

The machine is also likely not fast enough to take advantage of those speeds

Yeah, if you run iperf3 on a raspi, it can't even saturate it's 100Mbps connection!

Yup = Built in Bluetooth and WIFI is great ... really would love SATA and USB3 in a future version..

> It costs $35 and comes with ethernet, wifi, and a quad-core processor.

That's not all that much of a differentiator. The Banana Pi Pro only costs $12.89 more on Amazon. It doesn't have built-in wifi and it's dual- instead of quad-core, but it does have real SATA and better video. If I weren't perfectly happy with the Odroid U3 I've been using as a Linux desktop for the last couple of years, I'd probably lean toward that instead of the RP3, but that's not the point. The point is that SATA would be a nice addition, and not unreasonable at this approximate price point, even if the RP3 is already awesome.

If it had all those things it would be a PC, with a price tag to match. If you need those things, build a PC.

The Orange Pi 2 Plus has sata and about the same price

Exactly. And limited to 15MB/s writes.

I made the mistake once of buying an orange pi. I thought, hey, this has better specs, so its better.

I was wrong. Horrible support, 2 of the usb ports never worked. The community is non existent compared to rpi.

I haven't seen anything with directly connected SATA outside of iMX6 boards, and the pins aren't always connected. What did the Ax0 based Cubieboards use?

The original Cubieboards used on-chip AHCI SATA controllers. Allwinner dropped it from their newer chips, presumably because they're targeting tablet use and there's no need for them.

Olimex boards have a direct SATA connection. This is on a Lime-A10 with a cheap 2.5" 1TB drive, about 70% full so some fragmentation etc:

# dd if=/dev/zero of=6G bs=1M count=6144

6144+0 records in

6144+0 records out

6442450944 bytes (6.4 GB) copied, 136.176 s, 47.3 MB/s

# dd if=6G of=/dev/null bs=1M

6144+0 records in

6144+0 records out

6442450944 bytes (6.4 GB) copied, 93.6363 s, 68.8 MB/s

Also they have a nice battery connector, they'll keep the battery charged and switch to it if main power fails (and even keep the SATA drive powered (not sure if you plug a 3.5" one, though)).

Is native sata that much better than a usb3 adapter? All of the chips that offered sata were SATA 2.0, or 300MB/s. USB3 goes up to 625MB/s.

If a board with SATA 3.0 existed, that is still just 600MB/s.

The Banana Pi Pro (not the regular Banana Pi) is the only one I know of that has real SATA.

Allwinner A20 has directly connected SATA.

pretty sure the CPU could not even remotely saturate USB3 or Gigabit Ethernet

And still so many people choose it as file server...

And a nice HaD review (including competitor boards)


ps: wanted to say the rpi team seems very smart in the regularity and smoothness of their product delivery. A nice amount of changes, same price point, reusable form factor, cute surprise annoucements (pizero). Kudos for that.

> and if you contributed to the C.H.I.P. campaign, you might be waiting another three months.

This portion of the article makes it sound like they have written off C.H.I.P. as a non starter.

I actually received my CHIP back in early January, along with most of the campaign contributors. People are using CHIP today and making things with it. For those that ordered around "black friday" on the getchip.com site, those are expected to ship in June (I have a second order in through there), but the early Kickstarter ones have shipped. They also have more shipping each month.

What are you using it for?

I'm waiting for mind to ship.

And here's an interview with Eben Upton, a founder of the Raspberry Pi Foundation:


He also talks a little about his ideas for future versions of the board.

> The Pine64 will be shipping out to backers shortly, but it’s already dead on arrival. I’m a backer of the Pine64 Kickstarter campaign, and I should have some commitment bias towards this cheap 64-bit computer. Even I must concede the Raspberry Pi 3 is the superior board.

How is that, since Pine64 will have same CPU, plus 2GB of RAM, and Gbit ethernet.

The Pi will have a bigger community and more chance of mainline kernel support. I wish other boards could compete but that community is everything.

More accurately, the Pi has a bigger community of vocal fans and press who'll play up its accomplishments and shout down competitors and criticism of the Pi. For example, notice how not having onboard WiFi doesn't matter when the Pi lacks it, but is a big deal when it has it and its competitor doesn't. Also how the Hackaday article spins it as a good thing that, four years later, the Pi Foundation has released a board that's actually useable for the purpose they were promoting it for all along. For those four years, any suggestion the Pi wasn't usable for education was shouted down by fans and ignored by the press, but now the Pi 3's out and they can spin it as a positive thing...

Please don't use four spaces to quote material. Or if you do use four spaces please remember to add line breaks.

(Parent had used four spaces to quote a very long line of text. This breaks mobile by having a single very long line that needs to be scrolled. Scrolling on mobile is broken. Parent edited their post to remove the leading four spaces)

Edited the comment, I thought <pre> makes it easier to tell what part is the quote.

It does on desktop. Sadly, it doesn't on mobile.

and WORST support ever imagined from company routinely shipping GPL violating binary blobs.

On another note from your article, the Pi Zero is selling for more than the Pi3 on EBay. Thought that was interesting. Glad I bought mine at the $5 price. :)

This is a new incredible feat from The Raspberry Pi foundation, and I'm impressed by the modest media coverage there's been here and there. In fact, I think we've got here a clear example of the curse of human expectations (http://theunshut.com/2016/02/29/raspberry-pi-3-and-the-curse...).

Having an (almost) complete PC for $35 with WiFi and the rest of its features is something amazing that seems to be quite normal. It amazes (and saddens) me how most people is unimpressed by this.

When super computers... I mean smart phones... sit in the pocket of a majority of people?

Where we are... compared to 20... 30... 40... years ago? Mind boggling.

I'll probably actually buy a Pi 3 (or 2... or 3) with this release because I've been wanting some for awhile.

We took a look at the new Pi 3 in our blog post here: http://blog.pimoroni.com/raspberry-pi-3/

We have them available shipping worldwide in our store! https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/raspberry-pi-3

Heat and power increase are harsh.

Ordered! Cheaper (and faster) to have it shipped from the UK than from a US seller!

Strangely enough, one of the RPi2s I bought last week was DOA (wouldn't boot off a card that worked on an identical Pi2; red/green LEDs just stayed solid).. So, how convenient!

That's not really surprising, given they're made in the UK by a UK company with UK-based distributors. :)

It says it is shipping out with the 2A PSU while the rpi website recommends that the pi3 uses a 2.5A psu. Any reason?

> Any reason?

Yes. The full recommendation reads "This time round, we’re recommending a 2.5A adapter if you want to connect power-hungry USB devices to the Raspberry Pi."

So I guess the assumption is the average person won't connect power-hungry USB devices to their Pi 3.

Probably a stupid question, I don't know much about this stuff. Is there any reason not to just use a 2.5A even if you're not connecting power-hungry USB devices? If it doesn't cost significantly more and it doesn't hurt to use 2.5 anyway, it's something I'd rather not have to worry about.

Feel free. It'll only draw as much current as it needs. The rating on the power supply is just an upper bound of what it can (theoretically) provide.

That makes sense though I don't see a 2.5A adapter to order separately on their website (because I might be needing one later).

I have several of these, they are 2.5A and good quality.


Wouldn't the more common use-case for power-hungry usb devices be to have a powered hub to drive them? Then you don't have to worry about browning-out the RPi itself, though of course the cable clutter is worse.

We will be sourcing the 2.5A power supply but it really is only necessary for very power hungry setups!

Would two webcams quality for that?

That would be pushing it for powering through just the RPi. Webcams are typically rated for 500mA each and the RPi has been running around 700mA usage. So with the recommended increase, I'd wager their power usage may have gone up to 900+mA.

Link to your store in your blogbost is broken

Oh, "Sorry, we don't ship to Chile." :(

The biggest "shut up and take my money" feature is the built-in wifi. Not that it wasn't easy to add wifi before, but this gives a true standard that special use cases can be built around. For example, using a Pi as a Tor bridge in my house. There have been plenty of articles on how to do that, but if the article code uses version 2.01 of a chipset and you have 2.02 you were screwed, not going to work, just give up.

It's big because it also free's up a USB port that was often taken up by a wifi dongle.

Can anybody actually share useful projects with Raspberry? Yeah I have links to some "common and cool" projects that you can find over the first page in Google, but there's rarely something really useful..

We used about 50 of them on a job for Nike earlier this month, reading from a USB-attached credit card reader from MagTek and sending the data to the server over Wi-Fi and in the streetcar, over Bluetooth LE to a co-located iPad Pro (and from there we used its cellular connection to talk to the server). Each Pi worked alongside an iPad Pro as part of an on-site digital retail experience called SNKRS XPRESS where we replicated Nike's "SNKRS" app on the iPad Pro and people bought shoes off the app and picked them up immediately. Four simultaneous locations: Toronto, New York, Chicago, and Santa Monica (i.e. Los Angeles).

Other fun tech: Node.js on the Pis, NaCl for all crypto, TypeScript on the server (and Node.js), Stripe for handling payments, GraphQL for query handling for the iOS clients, and we used QR code display and reading to distribute public keys during setup. The Bluetooth LE data transfer code between Node.js and iOS was also a nice bit of work by my friend Erik van der Tier in the Netherlands.

[0] (Warning: autoplay.) http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/02/10/nike-snkrs-xpress-to...

[1] http://hypebeast.com/2016/2/nike-snkrs-xpress-pop-up-nyc

[2] http://weartesters.com/nike-snkr-xpress-experience-recap/

Pretty awesome! Thanks for sharing. Up-voted.

This seems genuinely interesting. Any more details about the tech side?

hahaha, this comment is hilarious. Your parent comment shared an x-ray level of detail about the tech including naming the credit card reader model (MagTek), and a complete inventory of their technical stack ("Node.js on the Pis, NaCl for all crypto, TypeScript on the server (and Node.js), Stripe for handling payments, GraphQL for query handling for the iOS clients") and technical implementaiton details (QR code display and reading to distribute public keys during setup, Bluetooth LE data transfer code between Node.js on the Pis and iOS) in addition to the point of the whole solution ("sending the data to the server over Wi-Fi and in the streetcar, over Bluetooth LE to a co-located iPad Pro, and from there we used its cellular connection to talk to the server.")

What more details could you possibly want? He's gone above and beyond in sharing.

Thanks, erichocean

I have them running home automation, energy usage, security cameras, and temperature monitoring (outdoor, and indoor home brew). Plus streaming audio and an inevitible xbmc http://pauly.github.io/lightwaverf/ https://github.com/pauly/raspbrewery http://pauly.github.io/pi-motion/

I use them with webcams and motion software for a budget cctv solution. I had some issues with reliability that I kludged around by setting them to reboot once a day. I also use them for basic network monitoring with munin and smokeping.

I have exactly the same! I understood it to be down to network issues, maybe that'll be solved with on board wifi?

Retropie is awesome. It has lots of emulators in it and can be controlled by a gamepad. I bought a wireless controller and it is great.

My last-gen RPi is my primary non-interactive-media device. With Kodi / OSMC it makes a superb media center, capable of playing everything up to and including 1080p video. Very few compatibility issues, easily extensible, file transfer from my desktop via SFTP, and consumes little enough power I just leave it on 24/7.

Doesn't do H.265, sadly. I wonder if the new one will...

EDIT: Ars Technica says "yes". "The new Pi also gains H.265 support for the first time but is limited to 1080p at 30fps."

Have you (or anyone else here) got tvheadend working on the Pi? It's supposed to work, but for me falls over at the very last hurdle of never actually tuning in any channels.

But it's not hardware HEVC right?

No hardware HEVC according to [1]Sam Nazarko at OSMC. It's software decoding for HEVC. He's already had his hands on it.

[1] https://discourse.osmc.tv/t/raspberry-pi-3-announced-with-os...

I have one setup for logging temperature and heating/cooling usage from a Proliphix thermostat in my house. It also acts as a firewall to protect the thermostat from the rest of my home network.

I've another one for several years as an SSH jump host that runs Screen, Ansible. Rock solid.

Now that the Ethernet port and WiFi are on separate buses, I'm looking to test RPi3 as a home firewall.

A project that's been in my backlog is to setup a stratum 1 NTP server. This is pretty easy now with much better GPS modules available as compared to what was available 4 years ago.

I've got two setup to encode audio from a scanner for liveatc.net feeds (KCPS Tower and KSTL Approach). The one for KCPS Tower also provides ADS-B data for flightaware (https://flightaware.com/adsb/)

jasper project voice recognition with raspberry pi.

hook it up to your garage door, your lights, whatever!


Rapid prototyping for smart mirror development. [0]

[0] http://innate.cc

I have mine reading my solar generation meter.

Thanks all for the comments.

Dunno why this took so long to dawn on me, but here we have 1.2GHz, quad core, 64-bit, computer with wifi, bluetooth, multiple USB ports, and ethernet.

And it is PASSIVELY cooled!

> And it is PASSIVELY cooled!

So is every phone. The fact that it's $35 is the impressive part.

Yeah i know. But most phones have barely a single micro-USB port.

You can get passively cooled netbooks with an Intel chip now. Mine's a Celeron N2840. Runs okay for everyday use.

The new macbook is passively cooled.

It's also thermally throttled heavily.

You can get Intel-based passively cooled computers with those features from Compulab. They cost a lot more than $35, though.

What also has changed: no I2S connector for audio chips any more, and I had hoped for a proper 3-lane I2S to be able to do 5.1 HQ audio without relying on either the crappy USB bus itself or cheap quality USB interfaces.

Not to mention that I2S sound is far less workload on the CPU than USB sound.

Oh, and why doesn't the Wifi/BT antenna have an SMA connector for external antennas, e.g. directional antennas?!

The I2S interface is still present on the 40-pin GPIO as per the Pi2 and B+.

Thanks for the information, I was under the impression that the Pi 2 also used P5... but indeed it's on the 40 pin header now (http://www.pagemac.com/projects/i2s_amp)

Now if one could repurpose another 2 GPIO pins for bit-banging I2s... there are chips which support multichannel, see http://www.ti.com/lit/an/snla221/snla221.pdf page 5.

If you have the technical skills to make it work it might be worth looking into the AC97 interface on some of the Allwinner boards. I'm not sure anyone's tried using it yet and some driver development will be required though.

Cheers for clarifying that. Might have been the end for hifiberry, iqaudio etc otherwise

Was there a seperate I2S connector or do you mean they're not routing those connections to the GPIO any more? I believe this board: https://www.hifiberry.com/ and the various other similar boards just connect via GPIO and use I2S

Doesnt HDMI audio provide as good quality as any i2s connector? Or do you just need i2s for interfacing with your own microcontrollers/older recieviers, which dont necessarily have hdmi (and thus copyright compliance, making it more expensive)?

Last I read Raspberry Pi should allow for 5.1 hdmi passthrough or at least DTS.

HDMI audio requires an extractor (so one more wall wart + device), and I'm using a Pi2 for home cinema. And I'm one of those with an "old" HiFi setup without digital input, just analog.

So use an old RPi? Or a Model B?

It does and that's how I have it set up. RPi source to receiver over HDMI. DTS 1080p movies playback beautifully with a slight overclock (on an original B).

RPI's hardware doesn't support DTS-HD MA or Dolby TrueHD passthrough though :(

Hang on, really? So there is no scope for any sort of compact HifiBerry-like dac with a Pi3?

There are pads underneath the antenna on the reverse side of the board, so it is possible to add an external antenna with some hacking.

Typically, this is announced the day my Raspberry Pi 2 turns up....

I know the feeling. Mine arrived yesterday. I don't mind at all actually since I use it in a headless configuration and do not want wifi or bluetooth. The upgrade from the single core to the quad core was already enough to make most headless use cases 100x better.

That said, rpi3 is an even more amazing piece of hardware and a harbinger of the final death of the home PCs that are not gaming desktops or workstations (not that we really needed a harbinger at this point).

Haha, very typical - Same thing just happened to me, the first HN Rumor post I saw regarding it was one week after I received mine from the post.

But all is not lost, the RPi2 is quite performant and I'd still wait on early adopters to report on potential overheating when under a heavy workload. RPi3 Might be approaching the higher-end ODROID (XU3/4) in cooling fan necessity.

I have mine in a Flirc metal case and it is fine. I do not put it under heavy workloads, but the Flirc comes with a thermal pad and attempts to make some of the heat get piped to the case body.

Same here, with a $35 device it's not as bad though, i wanted to buy another one anyway :)

Indeed. I was just about to buy a Zero and was looking through CPC Farnell (one of the UK distributors) and noticed they had a couple of thousands v3s in stock.

I don't feel quite so bad.

I got my B+ and about two months later, the 2 was released.

I got a 2 and about two months later, the 3 was released.

I should hurry up and buy the 3.

I got round to plugging in my Pi 2, that I bought a year ago, yesterday. Ordered a 3 already :)

Investigate if you can return the RPi2, then.

Hurray! I can, and I am!

I would wait until you have a Raspberry Pi 3 on order, or you might be waiting longer than you would like.

Received and all good!

With better USB/Ethernet and 2GB Ram I'd be sold

Apparently the Odroid C2 has 2GB of RAM and gigabit Ethernet for $40, it just hasn't been receiving the publicity of the Pi 3. For example, for some reason the Hackaday post only compared the Pi 3 to the $70 octo-core+USB3 XU4 and then immediately dismissed it as too expensive.

What's your use case for 2GB of ram ?

Running Java apps? I jest, apologies.

That's my reason for wanting 2GB.

Java Apps or use the RasPi for serious web-surfing

gitlab ?

Without SATA gitlab would be pretty painful. Agreed though, git-in-a-box would be great.

Any insights on why it took 3 years from RPI v1 to v2 and now v3 is released in less than a year? Not complaining, just curious. Is it just because they are so much bigger now ?

I think Broadcom finally realized they have something beneficial on their hands with millions of users and vibrant community. Pee gives them free beta testing of new SoCs. Afaik this is first armv8 from broadcom ever, they announced Vulcan almost 3 years ago and still didnt ship anything. Excellent linux support and great name recognition also count for something.

More money, more staff, more market validation and demand. It's quite striking how a Pi launch reminds me of games console launches, with all the excitement and units selling out everywhere.

Competition probably. It wasn't that long ago that their official roadmap delayed the RPi2 until 2017.


Part of me wishes this had been named the Model 3.14...

I wonder if they're planning to also put wifi on the rpi zero, or if they just can't.

From the pictures, it seems there is no visibly added component from rpi2 to rpi3, so I guess wifi could be added on the rpi0 ?

I mean wifi is really all I need, I don't need to plug so much USB peripherals or ethernet to such a computer, since everything can be done in SSH.

We really live in wonderful times. I wonder if the RPi foundation will get enough momentum to even build some more advanced stuff like a cheap laptop. That's the only missing link to this awesome project. There already is a touchscreen, but I can't see solutions with a clean casing that can include a screen and a smallish keyboard.

They are planning on adding wifi to the Pi A+. Says in their FAQ.

64 bit A53 and built in wireless. Fantastic. Can't wait to see how these turn out and what Hardkernel's answer will be.

Hardkernel have the ODROID-C2 in beta for a release in two days' time for 40USD - http://forum.odroid.com/viewtopic.php?f=135&t=18683

Compared to the RPi3, this extra 5USD gets you gigabit ethernet, 2GB DDR3, higher clock speed, and HDMI 2.0 capable of 4K60.

Raspberry Pi kinda won the race not because it had superior hardware, but because of the community it sapwn. You have an order of magnitude more content online about the Pi than the competitors.

I think there's still a market for more powerful devices that don't provide as much hand holding. I agree though the community aspect of the pi is a huge draw, especially when it comes to fixing issues and more esoteric projects.

I have a XU4 and the only reason I got it was for the 2gb of ram. I don't need 8 cores and I certainly didn't need a fan.

I'll be getting a C2.

Does anyone know if the USB ports are fully powered on the C2? As I can power a USB HDD from the USB port on the XU4 (this is a big thing for me as it saves another power source).

Awesome. Somehow I missed the C2 release. Been happy with my C1+.

About two years ago, I had a chance to ask Eben Upton if there would be a new platform like Arduino and Raspberry PI, what characteristics the new platform should have? And he said:

> There's scope for something very powerful (almost PC-like) in the $70 price range. If I was starting a new venture today, this is where I'd aim.

There is very powerful project like Bunnie Huang's Novena [1], but just the board will cost $550.

[1] https://www.crowdsupply.com/sutajio-kosagi/novena

In a handful of ways the Pi3 is actually more powerful than the novena -- at 1/10th the price.

> About two years ago

So the Raspberry Pi is four years old... (according to the article)

Where to buy in the US? All the sites seem to be UK

Looks like these guys ship to the US for < $5 (I just tried an US Address - did not actually buy one)



Anybody can suggest what accessories, case/enclosure and SD card are needed?

I prefer to buy a kit.

They list RPi 3 kit [1], but it's just list of old and new items, so it's not very clear.

[1] http://uk.farnell.com/buy-raspberry-pi?ICID=I-HP-LB-feb16-ra...

!SPEAKER WARNING! I had mine turned on full blast and now need a camomile tea.

Aside from the board, you also need a power supply with a micro USB connection, capable of 2.5A of output (realistically, you can use a smaller supply, but 2.5A means you shouldn't have to worry about power limits).

You need a MicroSD card at least 8GB in size, although larger is always nicer. Since it's the main storage for the device, faster is better.

An ethernet cable, if you don't plan on exclusively using wireless.

A case: the Pi3 is the same layout as the Pi2, so a previous-generation case will be fine.

An HDMI cable, if you won't be using it exclusively headlessly (or a cable with TRRS on one end and red+yellow+white RCA connections on the other end, if you're going the analog route).

A USB or bluetooth keyboard and mouse.

That would be my shopping list, if I didn't have those things laying around at home.

We have an essentials kit with case, power supply, and pre-imaged microSD card here: https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/raspberry-pi-3-essentials...

So my first, totally picky question, is - is the onboard wifi (woo!!) using a free and open driver in Debian?

That would be awesome-er

It's the same wifi chipset as the official wifi dongle, the BCM43143 (source: https://www.sparkfun.com/products/13825).

This chipset is supported by the open-source brcmfmac driver is available from the brcm80211 module of the linux kernel package, maintained upstream by the linux kernel community (source https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/Driver/bcm43xx)

That still relies on proprietary firmware on the actual chip itself.

True: http://git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/kernel/git/firmware/linux-f...

Either way, it's not really that interesting since you cannot boot the Rapsberry Pi without proprietary blobs anyway. I guess the important thing is that it'll work out out the box.

I did not know the whole could not boot without proprietary blobs - can you expand?

I just bought the Raspberry Pi 2 less than 1 week ago thinking it was about time to upgrade. WTH.

Especially as the FAQ still says: As of Feb 2015 there probably wont be a new model in the next 2-3 years.


Similar - got the kids one for Xmas thinking "this will last a while". They are still in the packaging while I fuss about other things. Ah well, they can get faster boards in a while.

Mine craft runs anywhere

> At launch, we are using the same 32-bit Raspbian userland that we use on other Raspberry Pi devices; over the next few months we will investigate whether there is value in moving to 64-bit mode.

So for now it is a "64 bit" system on paper only?

Raspbian isn't the only OS available for the Pi. Also, a 32bit Userland doesn't mean you can't run 64bit software, does it? Doesn't it just suggest that pre-installed applications (and apt repositories) are 32bit?

I asked around. It is likely you would need a chroot or at least special multilib/multiarch packages installed. The Debian Wiki has more details: https://wiki.debian.org/Arm64Port

No, it is an actual 64 bit system. There is a huge difference between a CPU that can run 64 bit code and just hasn't had any compiled for it and a CPU that will never be able to run 64 bit code.

As the RasPi foundation investigates this "over the next few months" there will inevitably be other people who release 64 bit builds for anyone who needs the extra oomph.

That was why I said "for now". You know it does take time to work out the kinks for a new SoC. No one has yet.

I guess your laptop is also '64 bit system on paper only', it boots in 16 bit real mode after all.

Is true 64 bit that exciting with 1 GB of ram?

Great news indeed - though it looks like we're still committed to Raspbian?

As much as I love the work the guys behind that have done, is the move to a native Debian distro for this architecture hamstrung by specifications, or something else?

I think it's more that they want to have a single distribution that works on all Pi models.

As far as I know, the main thing hamstringing native Debian support is that the binary blob required to boot any of the Pi's is not DFSG-compliant so Debian won't ship images for the Pi. The second biggest thing is that you still need a custom non-mainline kernel.

Kernel support improved a lot and we now have https://pignus.computer/ running mainline kernel. Graphics and camera support are still missing but we'll eventually get there with 4.5 kernel.

I wonder how far the clock speed needs to increase further to be usable for x86-64 emulation?

Sure you can recompile, but docker/sandstorm.io/etc type binary packages would be nice to run as-is.

Take a look at Eltechs' tooling - you can already do usable emulation for certain classes of software.

Can this decode and play 1080p H.265 videos? I know it can't do it with the built in chip (hardware rendering), but I'm asking if its cpu is capable of doing so.

Ars Technica says yes - http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/02/raspbe...

"The new Pi also gains H.265 support for the first time but is limited to 1080p at 30fps."

Kodi struggles with H265/FHD on Rpi2, but I'm hopeful this one will make it.

Any other suggestions on hackable and cheap H265 capable machines?

The Odroid C2 is $40 and can do 4k h265 at 60fps.

Does it still not include a crypto instruction set? Last time I tried to run anything crypto-heavy on an RPi it slowed to a crawl.

Yes the cortex A53 supports the crypto instruction set extensions.

Are there any other more powerful boards that are USB powered?

I'm thinking of using this as a small PC on my monitor - like an All-In-One. RaspPi is perfect as USB powered, things like a NUC need an extra power plug. Would be nice to have something more powerful though, Compute Stick is the only alternative I know of, am I missing something?

There are the ODROID systems, which are still ARM based.

I've heard a lot about the ODROID-C2, which people rave about.


Now that there's wifi support. Using Pi's to experiment with cluster computing just got a whole lot easier. :)

This looks awesome.

I hope it has SATA though. In fact among all the "popular" ARM chips, only iMX6 from NXP/Freescale and A20 from Allwinner provided SATA interface. Marvell used to do ARM/SATA and now it's hard to find those chips used in any open designs.

I presume it starts to be powerful enough to run Windows RT. If Windows RT still even exists?

The 2 runs Windows 10 IoT, but that's not Windows as you know it.

The only problem I have with Windows RT or Windows IOT is that there won't be any driver for any USB devices (in particular any probe). I am not sure what most people use RaspberryPis for but I found them useful as temperature loggers. And I don't feel brave enough to write my own driver...

Any reason to use Windows on this over a Linux distro?

For a hobbyist who is a windows user, linux isn't exactly user friendly. Every simple thing takes time. I managed to get my thing working with a little bit of python but it took me a day to do something that would take me 10min in .net and windows.

I don't think regular linux users realise the importance of a good UI to make linux go mainstream and be accessible. No UI for the firewall, no UI for scheduled jobs (CRON), no UI to give the right permissions to enable some script to execute. Lots of acronym based commands that are anything but intuitive.

As is, my experience of linux is that it is a "RTFM or die" system.

[edit] and also the python 2 vs python 3 thing, which technically isn't linux's fault but that I wouldn't have to deal with if I could use .net. This was my first experience with python and I lost two hours on a bug to realise that python 2 wasn't compatible with SNI. And then you have several versions of python installed and to run anything you have to specify the right version and sub-version of python in the command. This was an awful experience.

I understand losing time to silly bugs and issues is frustrating. I'm a C# coder professionally but I've been using Linux for over a decade.

It's much, much better than it was 10 years ago. You can even use C# these days! [1] [2] [3]

[1]: http://www.raspberry-sharp.org/

[2]: https://dotnet.github.io/

[3]: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/dotnet/corefxlab/master/de...

It sounds like in some ways you have no issue with Linux other than it's not Windows.

I think that's basically where we're at and will continue to be at with desktop Linux because essentially the 'internal' problems are all solved now. Ubuntu boots and installs from a CD/USB in about seven clicks (all of which are either typing a name, language, or clicking forward).

A Linux user has no need to play around with RDP just as a Windows user has no need to play around with X11. I think it's unfair to expect mutual compatibility there.

If you're waiting for that, it will never happen, because effectively you're asking for Windows userspace running on the Linux kernel. A bit like asking for windows games on Linux - WINE exists, but native will always be better.

Even on Linux, there's Mono (for running .net code).

FWIW, I think the Windows IOT that's made for RPi will be a big disappointment for most people - as the expectation would be "regular Windows, compatible with Anything and Everything, just running on RPi" versus the reality of "something that loosely resembles Windows, but severely limited". In this, I believe that it's better to dive into a Linux distro (the NOOBS one should make stuff easier) - there's a learning curve, but you're not getting sidetracked by the expectation of "runs on desktop Windows, why is it refusing to run here?"

Which is why I was referring to Windows RT rather than Windows 10 IoT. I think Windows IoT is meant to run on really tiny under-powered devices. The specs of the RaspberryPi 3 seem to look more like a modern smartphone and I would assume Windows RT would run OK on it.

Happy to help you - the default "NOOBS" installer for Pi should be GUI all the way through.

The UI for iptables/ipfw should be on Raspian and is called "Firewall Builder"

Cron is taken care of here: https://blog.bartbania.com/linux-2/cron-jobs-with-gui/

Right clicking a script file should give you Properties, where you can select Execute permission.

There's a critical need to attract more UX designers and testers to something like Raspbian, and I think the Raspberry Pi Foundation is in a good position to do that.

Actually the firewall thing was my experience with Ubuntu. I tried to setup linux in a VM to learn to use it, and failed on what I thought would be a simple first step: configure it so that I can connect to the VM using RDP. That involves tweaking the firewall and installing an RDP server. I finally discovered ufw but the original instructions involved creating a security group, etc. As for the RDP thing, I still have't found a stable solution (but have long deleted the VM since).

TeamViewer have a build that uses Wine which works well.

What VM host software are you using? If it's VirtualBox, just install the guest additions and use it through there.

RDP is really a Microsoft-only protocol. It's better on Windows than VNC because AFAIK it's just sending draw calls across the wire. I'm not sure what XRDP does.

You may actually have a better experience on a Pi 2 or 3, because of the way Raspbian is set up to run by default.

>TeamViewer have a build that uses Wine which works well.

TeamViewer has a native linux build, which works well: https://www.teamviewer.com/en/download/linux/

Not sure why you'd want to use Wine.

I was using hyper-v on windows 8.1 (now 10) machine that I use as a server. I didn't want to run a local VM as I was connecting from a laptop running windows 7.

I could also have used VNC but I much prefer the RDP experience, in particular being able to share the clipboard with the local machine and to copy text and files.

Ah right. I don't use Hyper-V because I want to be able to use USB devices under Linux. I've had a lot more problems under Hyper-V than I have with VirtualBox. Both can't be installed side by side, either, you'd have to remove the boot flag or uninstall Hyper-V before you can use VirtualBox.

VirtualBox also does clipboard and file sharing, but only with the Guest Additions (only tested under a recent Ubuntu).

For Ubuntu, I've used xfce4 desktop and X2Go quite successfully from Windows. I now pretty much always install xubuntu if I want to RDP into it.

I don't think Windows users appreciate the importance of a good command line accessible over SSH for managing headless systems.

I don't mean to be too snarky about it, but it's a different environment and you're complaining that it's not as easy as the one you're familiar with. "Intuitive" is difficult to quantify; the Windows interface has changed repeatedly in the 7 -> 8 -> 10 era while the basic command line interface hasn't, so once you learn it it's not likely to be obsoleted. There are Linux UIs with all of the stuff you mention - GNOME has always targeted that market.

.NET has its own versioning pain with the .NET frameworks across different versions of Windows. I think it will eventually become more popular on Linux, but only once trust of Microsoft has slowly been rebuilt. Having an open source System.Windows.Forms would help too.

(Professionally I'm a Windows CE developer at the moment, which is a little weird from a Linux background)

I think the ideal system has an intuitive and exhaustive GUI, but where everything can be scriptable.

And a more than ideal system would give you the way to go from GUI to scripting easily. I.e. in any control panel you would have a button at the top that if you click, will make some command windows appear below the current window, which would show you the command line equivalent of anything that you do using the GUI.

I am not arguing against having a scriptable OS. I am saying that a GUI makes things a lot easier to understand intuitively, being able to observe the state of the system visually and making it clear what are all the possible options from a given point.

That would be great; I get the impression that Microsoft are very very slowly moving towards that with Powershell and Powershell ISE.

> I don't think Windows users appreciate the importance of a good command line accessible over SSH for managing headless systems.

You should check out this link - production quality OpenSSH for Windows planned for H1 2016. https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/powershell/2015/10/19/opens...

CE? Really? Can you share anything else? I thought even the GPS manufacturers had moved on.

Such as? It's a point-of-sale system that runs on PC tills (Toshiba, IBM etc) and also our own less general-purpose hardware (iMX6). It was written in the 90s as an MFC application. The original system the company was founded on was written in the early 80s in Z80 assembler.

The dedicated hardware uses a mixture of Flash and battery-backed SRAM to provide a crash- and powerloss-resistant transaction system.

Right, I'd forgotten about POS. Interesting that CE is still in use - I thought everyone would have migrated to Windows Embedded by now.

We use WEC7 - Windows Embedded Compact is CE with two of the letters swapped in the acronym. We're not using 2013 because our BSP hasn't been ported.

I thought the whole point of those DIY projects was to learn something? If you just use what you already know (.NET) for everything, why even bother? Just buy a readymade IoT thermometer.

PS. and you can apparently use .NET on Linux anyway (Mono) - here's an example of interfacing with I2C sensors: http://blog.mshmelev.com/2013/06/connecting-raspberry-pi-and...

If I'm trying to do one thing, and a whole new tech tree, completely alien to me, spirals out of it, it's possible I'd be overwhelmed.

Your suggestion of Mono goes the right way, I think: using a familiar language in an unfamiliar environment could help with the initial confusion.

Hahaha, someone should definitely draw a Civilization style tech tree for a whole lots of things.

Yeah but if the environment setup takes 3x the time of the project it becomes less fun. I had this experience when trying to log temperatures to InfluxDB for use with Grafana.

I did learn something doing this DIY project. But at the end of the day there is also the question of whether I enjoyed using these new tool, and I am afraid that I have done all the CRON editing I could stand.

I also looked at commercial alternatives but I wanted it to call one of my web services and that's not what these IoT devices typically do.

My contact details are in my profile. I've got some holiday time now, I can help you directly if you want.

Thanks for offering, I appreciate it. But I did manage to get the temperature logging to work in the end, and will most likely stick to windows for the time being. I would love to learn linux but it seems to consume more time that I am ready to spend on it.

Understandable. The offer stands (and to anyone else in the same position). Although I guess if a lot of people took me up on the offer I don't scale too well.

I was thinking of getting a second Pi only recently, this makes the decision a lot easier.

I got my first one hoping to tinker with it a little, but it ended up hooked to my TV and running OpenELEC. So here's to hoping the second time will be more tinker-y.

Is the Bluetooth and wifi part of the SoC or at least get a decent bus? The pi's usb is known for suckage, and if the networking could be greatly improved (especially latency) that would be an amazing improvement.

Yes, the Bluetooth & WLAN now use the SDIO interface[0]

[0]https://youtu.be/Y2Z6b64eh2E?t=172 (around 2m50)

Let's hope the new SoC BCM2837 has seen some love there. It looks like more than just a tiny bump, so they probably took time to make things sane.

I always wonder why they do not (as well) sell directly to the consumer but through their distributors. I mean acquiring the customer yourself and then selling through someone else. Why?

Because that's not their business.

> Integrated 802.11n wireless LAN and Bluetooth 4.1

that will make setup even easier!

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