I used to work at a startup where this was the case, but I've since changed. I love my work and my co-workers and I think they all work extremely hard, but I go home every night at 6:30. I cook for myself. I take salsa lessons. I read. And I work on my own projects.
Interesting work at companies comes with ebb and flows. Sometimes you work on things you don't like, sometimes you get bored, but if you keep your mind fresh and sane you'll come up with things to work on that are meaningful and interesting.
I used to eat at Subway, every single day and one day I stopped going there. I have never been able to go there again.
Passion does not turn you into a machine, you are still a human and your brain and body has limits.
>> You haven't yet discovered that any business -- any real business that is-- is going to get to the point where you actually have to do work. Automate away everything you can, but there is still going to be work.
>> If you're bored doing work, and only interested in the exciting stuff, you're never going to be happy in any job beyond 6 months or so
There's a lot of truth in this. When I did network administration I would job-hop. The first 6-12 months at a place were always full of stuff to do, and the things you did made each department fall in love with you. Rebuild a server that's been flaking out for 2 years? Fix some application the other guy could never get to work? Roll-out a new system for X? Upgrade to the latest firewalls/switches/whiskerdoo?
But then after that, it's like time stands still. There's nothing left to innovate, nothing exciting to do. Sure, there's stuff to do but who wants to actually do it? Maintenance is no fun.
Later, doing QA at a my first software job, we had a developer with that mindset. He'd flesh out an app and use whatever the latest libraries and tools were. The first demo would amaze everyone. He'd come in late and leave early. By the time we started beta testing the product it turned into a huge mess. I took on the not-so-glamorous job of fixing the whole thing. And instead of quitting (like I wished he would), he'd stick around and the the boss would give him a new project to work on. Starting the cycle all over again...
This is terrible, and would also make me want to quit. Because if you start as part of the decision making process, and over time stop being invited to those meetings, that means you are no longer trusted or important enough to have any say in those decisions. That would be insulting, to say the least.
Even though my title, salary, and perks were still the same, it was a de-facto demotion. Important parts of my compensation (involvement, agency, sense of ownership, diversity in work effort) were just inadvertently phased out as the company I helped grow was big enough to support product managers who could do just the most rewarding parts of my job but not actually code or anything.
I think (hope) there are things that one can do to guard against this from happening, and just being aware of this phenomenon is valuable.
That's a neat observation, and a pattern I've seen before. As the company (or team, within a larger company) grows, it's possible to lose some of the things you most value about your job -- without even realising it.
The company and management have the best intentions at heart for you, the team and the product -- but is this an inevitable side-effect of growth?
Also, the reason I became a product manager in the first place was because I found the specific stuff you mention invigorating, and coding became a distraction from it; I wouldn't diss all product managers with the same brush, it's just an unfortunate trap that if you're a good engineer then people probably don't think you want to be more product-focused, and don't want to lose your coding contributions.
Do you know what the "MacLeod Model" is? A cartoon on the back of a business card, posted to the web without comment nine years ago: http://gapingvoid.com/2004/06/27/company-hierarchy/
Michael O'Church might have some interesting things to say, but when he extrapolates pages of meaning from a cartoon that's just trying to be humorous, it says more about Michael O'Church than anything else.
I would classify Michael's work as an introduction to applied evolutionary psychology, using corporations as a case study. If you'd like the reasons behind why his work is valid, I'd recommend starting with Richard Dawkins' Selfish Gene followed by The Extended Phenotype. The sections on game theory are particularly insightful, as they describe how competing strategies reach equilibrium in a given environment. You will find the strategies described are quite similar to Michael's classifications, thus shedding much light on corporate environments.
I don't think we should disregard the ideas in this napkin comic just because it's a napkin comic. We should disregard it if it has no grasp on reality. But when one reads books like The Corporation and also experiences life in the corporate world, some of us can't help but nod our heads depressingly. It's why we quit.
See also http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/03/deceptive-writing-styl...
For me, it was mostly a lack of mindfulness, both from me and from my manager, about what was going on as the dynamics changed. I'm sure that if I had said "hey, it's important that you don't take this kind of work away from me" before it was too late, it would have worked out much better.
Haven't seen much from him lately.
That's the worst.
Asshole idea people who can't code their bullshit design or implementation.
I'm finding myself in a similar situation, about not working on my own side projects enough. The only time I've got anything done personally is when I took off 2 weeks around the holidays (and since it was holiday time, I didn't feel the need to keep "checking in" to the office, as there wasn't much going on). But normally I'll only take a day or two off at a time, which doesn't seem long enough.
No. Almost never. But I've thought about this extensively (before I quit as well as after), and I do regret not taking more real vacations.
But something made it just feel not okay. I probably have myself to blame more than anybody, but whenever I took vacations - even weeklong vacations (which was rare), I found myself checking in often. I was always near a computer. I felt obligated, and had strong loyalty to the company and my coworkers. Everybody worked extremely hard. Days off to take care of important things, or when I just needed a break - always became 'work from home days'.
If you're good at what you do, you'll find a job you love immediately (if that's what you're looking for). As developers, we're fortunate to be in extremely high demand. Life is too short to be bored. Work on interesting things.
If I've learned anything about working, it's that you never quit without another job lined up. Employment seems to be a prerequisite for finding employment.
I ask in part because I've been at my current employer for 9 years -- should someone in my spot be looking for a new job?
Try interviewing and seeing what you get offered.
Unless you manages to get on the gravy train, in which case, congrats!
I think that what hiring managers want to see is that you fully exploit the opportunities available to you. That means that if you're in a good employer and given a lot of responsibility, you stay. If you're in a dead-end job where you're not learning anything, you leave. If it's a good company going through a rough patch, you stay. If it's just a bad company, you leave.
Oftentimes that means you'll have stints of varying lengths on your resume: you may have a few of 1-2 years when starting out to find your footing, then a longer stint of 4-5 years at an industry-leader, then a shorter stint at a smaller company where you're given more responsibility, then a startup, and so on.
Wow, really? Many (not all, though) of the people I know who are really good at some things also don't like the politics of working in companies/jobs at all, so finding a job they 'love' is near impossible. If you're leaving one job because of your own issues, you'll be taking those wherever you go.
If you want to keep it up you should overlay something that says "I used to want to work at airbnb" but leave the rest. (Doesn't matter if you still want to work there or not saying "used to" doesn't mean "I won't still").
Leaving this up makes you seem like the jilted guy with high school puppy love. Not very attractive to other "women" who want to possibly date you.
If you're in your 20s (early 20s?) maybe not so much, but for me (early 30s) it's not so easy.
I really want to work on my own company (and I have just started a new side project which I hope to bootstrap, the last 2 washed out early), but I have to pay the bills in the meantime.
It is a job of the employee to be creative (talking about design, of course). But it is the job of employer and investors to make an environment that challenges the employer. If they are unable to do that then any really creative employer will (or at least should) leave.
@OP: good luck!!! I wish you well on your path, wherever it takes you.
Well, that sort of goes back to a common theme in software companies: Are the people being hired as creatives or are they being hired to implement someone else's vision?
My experience is that in most roles you're likely to be being hired for the latter - and having intelligence outside of the ability to do your assigned task efficiently is strongly discouraged in them.
Especially since you profile reads:
I'm on sabbatical.
I've been bored before, so I hear you. But, I guess I'm kind of surprised that you chose to jump into nothing rather than parlay your way to something else. Seems a little impulsive. Impulsive is a red flag, despite what many on HN think (you can be impulsive, but you better be brilliant too).
Now you've got to explain a gap in your res to a potential employer (should you choose to go that route). The employer is going to hear "I got bored" and think "maybe he'll get bored here, too."
As for my sabbatical, it is true. I'm on one after spending my 20s earning enough to justify it. I'm not saying it was time well spent, but I got a lot out of it (dealing with corporate BS and powering through boredom to produce value teaches you a lot). It is also an easy narrative to tell.
Best of luck. I know you're a clever fella (maybe brilliant, too --- time will tell) and I'm sure you'll figure it out. But, this might end up being a very different lesson than you originally anticipated.
I won't suggest that I know whether or not the original poster made a good decision, but assuming that an experienced developer will have job opportunities on tap is naively short-sighted.
The current market in the Bay Area won't last forever. A lot of people today either weren't around in the late 90s or have chosen to forget what happened. In a matter of months, lots of developers went from having a seemingly unlimited number of high-paying jobs to choose from to collecting unemployment.
Even if the next down cycle isn't the same as Bust 1.0, a lot of the angel and VC-backed startups in the Bay Area currently eager to pay six figures for even mediocre talent aren't going to survive, and when they're replaced by fewer and fewer startups, many developers will be ill-prepared.
Is the OP an experienced developer?
(How many years does he have in a production setting? Would it be worth getting those critical 5 years of experience, despite bouts of boredom?)
Sounds impulsive, but doesn't have to be. It's possible to make that jump after long and thorough consideration. It took me years and a couple of jobs before I finally dared to quit and start my own thing. Not everything I did with my own thing worked out well; spent a lot of time finding my own way, wasted a lot of time, made almost no money in my first year. I did some freelance work, now working on a bigger freelance gig, but I'm really hitting my stride now, and can't wait to go back to my own projects.
I'm not a natural entrepreneur. It took me ages to make this step. Nobody in my extended family has their own company; they all work for a salary. Nobody likes this kind of risk, but I love it. I love the freedom and the uncertainty. I love the risk.
It was a tough decision, and it still seems impulsive compared to a steady salary, but it was the second best decision of my life. (The best was marrying my wife, but that one was surprisingly easy.)
Everybody gets bored and frustrated with work. Up & quit after a year and sell it as wisdom on HN? Fuck that.
I'll tell them how I don't think sticking to what is easy is the best approach to building a successful business, even though it feels safe. I'll tell them how I think it's important to always be moving, and take calculated risks to push forward. I'll tell them how I learned (from mistakes) that it's okay to release an impefect product - because trying to get it perfect on the first time around will kill you.
I told my past employer all of this. They disagreed. And that's fine. They were smart guys, and they worked hard. Everyone has their own methods and ideas. We just weren't the right fit. But I'll try hard to make sure the next employer is.
Generalizing is usually pretty pointless but if I were banking on getting a programming job, were debt free, and okay with not being especially picky about what company I work for after the experiment should it come to that, I wouldn't worry too much about possible red flags.
In life you have to prioritize things. If your highest priority is running your own business or taking time off from work to try something new, then your next job after that really has to fall down the priority list. You can't have everything assured and hope to be successful. Edit: MOST PEOPLE can't have everything assured and hope to be successful. Of course there are exceptions to every rule, but most of the time you do have to experience trade-offs to be successful. I'm not advocating taking huge risks, and most of the time there are smart ways to mitigate risk, but in the end I think a lot of people are arguing you should mind your red flags and try to stay focused on getting your dream job after the hiatus. I'm simply saying that isn't realistic if you want to focus on being successful in a different line of work. I've always believed you can really only be truly committed to one career at a time.
Good. Me too. Gets me in trouble all the time; I'll never change.
And I agree with you motivation for leaving... I just would have rather read "I quit X to start Y." I don't care what "Y" is. Might not have made front page. Hmm, karma or cash... which is better?
There has been one programming position advertised in the city I live in in the last 3 years. That company has since closed - as I suspected it would (the entire team of 10 was Polish guys and gals and as it turns out they just wanted a presence in the country and farm out all the work back to Poland). Programmers in the US are totally spoiled right now, as there is a huge demand for them, but its not the same elsewhere. A number of other software businesses have also shut down or retreated back to their base.
Life may be too short to be bored, but its also too short to become penniless and homeless in a few months after quitting because you couldn't hack it anymore in a dead end job.
I think there are a lot of unsolved ideas - like zero-friction data upload from instrumentation - possibly running on different platforms, wiki-like annotation and record keeping, setting up protocols with timers, and a uniform notification scheme that can be pushed out to a mobile device, etc....
If you plan on working for someone else, that employment gap would be a red flag.
(I'm trying real hard to find a spin but can't..)
Otoh, I sold a business and everyone criticized me that I had nothing else lined up to do but I realized that I wouldn't be able to line something up to do while involved day to day in legacy enterprise. (Of course that was not the same as I wasn't looking for employment.)
You solve that by not explaining why you left :) but instead focusing on where you want to go, and how the prospective company is the ideal place to achieve that.
This had the added benefit of likely being true, and it complements the company without being sycophantic.
When someone says 'job security', the profession I immediately jump to is a tenured professorship. And those don't exactly come by frequently.
If you make the decision in your head that you are going to quit then it's quite possible your work and your attitude will decline and either co workers or management will have a negative view of you by the time you do quit. In a sense this is similar to why many performers go out while on top (thinking of Seinfeld as one example) instead of waiting for ratings decline. You don't want to just be going through the motions.
Corp X: 1999-2004
Corp Y: 2005-2009
Corp Z: 2009-2013
Last day at X could have been 12/31/2004, last day at Y could have been 1/1/2009, first day at Z could have been 12/31/2009, but no 'suddenly suspicious gap' shows?
That said, I'll never just up and quit a job now. Did it once, and those were some of the most stressful months of my life. No matter how crappy a job is, it doesn't compare to watching your hard-earned savings decline and facing the real, terrifying possibility that you won't make rent/mortgage payments.
There's no reason for hyper-precision on a resume when it comes to dates.
In other words if the person reading the resume is going to read (incorrectly) into the situation and penalize you for leaving it's ok to fib a bit in order to prevent them from having that wrong impression (which you can't correct if you don't get the interview).. A case of who draws first blood.
Admittedly it's possible that my CV looks a lot more attractive than the average CV, but personally I wouldn't know why. It's possible the job market in Netherland is better than in the US, though.
I don't have a ton of money, but I have some. I have enough to survive for several months (or longer, if needed). LA is expensive, but I'm relatively frugal.
If you've got children, you hopefully also have a spouse with his/her own income. I'm fortunate that my wife makes enough to pay the entire mortgage on just her income, so my money goes mostly to child care and various extras and luxuries. With a bit of savings we can make it for quite a while.
If you're maintaining a family on a single income, then yeah, that kind of step is rather irresponsible. But if you live on your own, you'll have your hands free for anything.
As startups are not anywhere near a guaranteed job, downturns are really hard on morale, but you have to stick through it. Why do you have to? Because commitment. If you aren't ready for that kind of commitment, then early stage start ups are not for you probably.
As an employee you will more than likely not end up making as much as you would elsewhere in the long run. What do you get out of it then? Depends. I think it's worth it because I learn a lot and because my contributions really make a difference. Even if I don't have input in the broader direction (actually a good thing), I know my value.
Yes, I absolutely agree with you. But in this particular case, I didn't leave because it was hard. I left because it was easy. Too easy. I wasn't challenged. The work I was doing was mundane and repetitive, and I didn't feel like what I was working on was important (or fulfilling). My productivity was great. I excelled. I made an effort to contribute in every way I could. But at the end of the day, I was just another dev.
This. A thousand times.
At every company I've EVER worked for, I eventually had this exact same feeling. Even as the lead engineer, team lead, tech lead, or whatever other "top developer" role I've held, I always feel like this. And I always eventually quit too.
It's gotten worse in the past few years. I can barely make it one year before I feel like "just another dev", become completely de-motivated and start heading for the exits.
I've realized, at age 31, that I am a shitty employee and I always will be. I'm not supposed to work for other people. It doesn't really make me happy. It doesn't matter if its at a startup or a Big Co, I always feel like "just another dev", bored and ultimately like my potential is being cut short.
In the past year, this was sort of an epiphany for me. I have to follow the beat of my own drummer, be my own boss, make my own destiny. Will this bring me to self actualization? Will this be what I'm looking for? Or, will I feel empty once I get there? I have no clue, but I've got to find out.
Thanks for sharing your story, Loren. You're in good company. Good luck with figuring out what's important to you.
It would be great to find a place where you could do both, but my understanding is these roles/companies are very rare. I suppose you could start your own company and then you'll definitely be doing it all, but that's kind of a risky way to get job satisfaction.
1. Went back to school for an MBA (which I wouldn't recommend doing)
2. Found a typical "code monkey" job at a company where I was super-interested in the product and felt I had lots of good ideas. Work way up to some kind of tech lead position.
3. Network/established great relationships with the product team at said company. Provided constant input/ideas on the product, knowing most of it would be ignored (that's OK).
4. When I learned an opening on the product team appeared, jumped on in with full force. By then, the right people on the product team all knew/trusted me, and it was a pretty straightforward move. I was basically moving back down to a non-leadership level but I was willing to accept that.
Process took about 4-5 years, including the MBA. In retrospect, I wouldn't recommend the MBA unless you are trying to transition ENTIRELY out of tech/software.
Hope this helps
The only thing to look forward to are starting your own company or becoming a CTO, but let's face it, a very small percentage of people are going to ever actually do that. Some people look forward to that big pay day, but it turns out that's not too realistic for a ground-level engineer anyway.
I think in other types of role people look forward to the next step in their career, whatever that step might be. As an engineer, you just look forward to becoming an older engineer.
I always had that too. Especially about the potential; I knew I could do so much more than I was showing at all the companies I worked for, but I had no idea how to show it.
I quit and became a freelancer. Messed about with my own projects for a bit, did some small freelance work, and now I'm at a big freelance job at a company that's larger than any I'd worked for before. And from day one, I'm contributing beyond what I normally contribute. I'm taking on leadership roles that I normally wouldn't. I make more strategic decisions than every before.
I don't know if it's that this company has just the right culture for me, or maybe it's that ultimately I'm a freelancer and my own boss, and therefore I feel far more responsible for my work. I want to sell myself and keep selling myself through my work. Or maybe it's because starting my own company forced me to step way outside my own comfort zone; I have to negotiate contracts, hire an accountant, decide how to invest in myself; I need to think business, and that doesn't come naturally to me, but I do it. And maybe that's what gives me the confidence to take more charge, take more initiative, and keep moving forward in my every day work.
And I've got plans inside this large company (my client) beyond my current project. I see ways in which I can mean more to them, help them with more fundamental organizational problems; I see ways in which I can make myself more valuable (and thus more expensive) to them.
Whatever it is, I love it so far. And when I stop loving it, I'm free to do something entirely different. I'm my own boss.
I only ask because I am in a hardcode engineering lead role and have never been made to feel like "just another dev"
That said, I don't think my unhappiness working for others has anything to do with other people making me feel that way or with my competence or the competence of others. Heck, I'm VP of Engineering right now at a company doing 10s of millions in revenue and growing like crazy and I still feel like something is missing.
My realization is that it needs to my skin in the game to not feel like I'm "just another dev" or perhaps more generally, "just another cog in the machine".
Working for someone else, I don't see how I could ever reach the level of personal risk, reward and gratification that it has taken me a long time to realize I need.
I can't escape it at someone else's startup or someone else's big company. I bounced from job to job, year after year, thinking it was just culture or not enough responsibilities, or too many responsibilities, not enough money, or too much money. These were all wrong.
I was "just another dev".
I think this is an important lesson for any company building software, you'll lose top talent if you just treat them as some kind of fungible code churning cog.
I just need something new every once in a while. I thrive on change, apparently. (My brother doesn't; he's been working at the same company forever.)
The problem is: I never get around to my own projects; when I started at a new job, all my energy goes into that. When it turns into an old job, that extra energy is gone. I never have the surplus energy for my own stuff.
I feel like working for a startup in this way is for suckers. I've seen it so many times: You work really hard on a project and either the startup goes under or it gets bought out and you get a very small percentage (this almost never happens, however).
If I'm going to make that kind of commitment and take that kind of risk, I might as well start my own company. The risks are almost the same and the payout is much higher.
Yes, you may learn a lot from the experience, but does it have to be at the expense of your mental health and self-worth?
If you can't afford mortgage repayments and savings, you are living above your means
I plan to always have enough savings for 1 year+ of unemployment
I once got hired in a startup my brother was in. I relocated to a new town (the capital), and got the chance to work in the development team with my brother and another guy I also knew very well. Things were awesome, and I couldn't be happier.
After awhile though, my motivation started declining quickly, and I found it hard to get up in the morning. By that time, I had almost stopped entirely doing projects when I got home. I just didn't feel like coding in my spare time anymore.
So, what went wrong? I loved my coworkers, it was exciting being in a startup, and I was somehow involved in the decision making, but, I just felt bored. Just, a complete lack of motivation. After awhile with this, I decided to quit, since I was going to start at university anyways. As the author of the post said, I also immediately felt relieved. I got my programming joy back.
What I've learned from this is, that I either
a) want a job were I do trivial stuff (like, working in a super market), and don't code since I prefer having a joy for coding as it is a thing I love dearly, rather than just getting payed to do it. or
b) be my own boss, be it freelance web developing, or, running my own startup. When it's my goals on the line, I get much more motivated.
I've had plenty of shitty jobs, and also had good jobs. This is what I've gathered from my (short) experience (I'm only 20 atm, but been working since I was young). This may also just be me, seeing as I get bored very quickly, and loose my motivation if I'm not feeling like it.
If I'm finishing all my rote work within regular day, at previous jobs I've started working on stupid side projects.
A physics engine in Lua, a maze generator in PyGame, and so on.
Regardless, I never write anything of worth for those side projects -- mostly experimental things, or using new languages/frameworks I had never tried.
That phrase can mean different things for different employers. If you work at Morgan Stanley then doing a social bookmarking tool in your spare time is probably fine, if you work at Intuit then doing an iPhone game is probably fine. If you work at Google then everything is potentially problematic, as Google has a knack for poking its head into any line of business imaginable.
maybe some of the lessons I've learned so far may help: http://amirrajan.net/meta/2013/07/14/rebooting-life/
Interesting post (and fellow Crossfitter, too!). Kudos on building up that much of a savings runway, though I'm finding that some level of time pressure is helpful in driving me forward faster to find my passions.
Personally, I found it hard to focus on other things outside of a demanding job. And I loved my job, so it wasn't hard to get sucked in. I had a forced leave due to an accident, and that really helped with evaluating priorities.
I wound up at https://www.hackerschool.com/ in February, and it was exactly what I needed. Most other students were in weird transitional phases of life as well. Check it out if you start struggling by yourself. I got a new job through them, so everything fell into place in the end.
Enjoy your sabbatical, and good luck!
"I was given work to do and I did it well. The work wasn't interesting anymore, but it was easy." - "It was just so comfortable."
"I had plenty of ideas for apps and projects, but couldn't bring myself to build them. I was drained."
I understand feeling of being drained in a job with uninteresting, but stressful or time-consuming work, but not so much in a job that sounds extremely comfortable and flexible.
This combined with the "secretly hoped something horrible would happen" bit reads to me as a sort of mid-career crisis - tunnel vision seeking for some big catalyst that will make everything better, for a while at least.
I expect the author is going to be just fine in any case, but I don't see this as a problem that really necessitates an all or nothing approach. I feel like the tales of quitting, working out of a car, betting the house and whatnot is overly romanticized in general and among startup culture in particular.
I have seen that happen to myself. The motivation, the desire to pick yourself up and get to work drops.
The largest factor IMO is the people you work with ie Your boss, your teammates etc. This can make it or break it. Everything else comes and goes in time slices. I do not expect work to be interesting all the time but with great co-workers I at least expect an interesting hallway conversation or the spark to a new idea.
For me it was the Sr/Jr Engineer thing that killed my desire. I found that somehow my age/years of work experience came in the way by a highly regimented old world overlord. I figured it was an unhealthy environment that cared 2 hoots about what was happening in the world outside. Most of them had come from a school that thought sticking faster CPU more memory and larger disks was innovation while it was just evolution. Packed my bags and hopefully will never miss a thing :)
Good luck !
That's not a great situation to be in. Are you still working there?
I think many of the companies get started with good intentions, but we all know what the road to hell is paved with, right? What can be done to fix this?
In fact, if you're up for some fun and continuous self-motivated challenge, I might have something for you that might be right up your alley. Not a coding thing or startup thing at all. Drop me a note if it interests you.
Too often people stay at startups because it's the new cool, and anyone not "doing a startup" is apparently an idiot. It's very far from the truth, and my life was a lot happier once I realised that.
Everything else is just aesthetic.
I ended up having to get a short term individual insurance plan instead. It's a bit of a risk because if a major issue related to a pre-existing condition flared up, I would probably not be covered. It's my understanding that when the new health care laws take effect next year, it will help absolve much of the risk that comes from using an individual insurance plan.
One other possible new exciting venue?
Sell the truck, get on down to the marinas, walk the docks, ask around, moorage in arrears gets good glass sailboats for the cost of getting them out of there. The Sacramento Delta, `Delta Time' might get you some free anchor out.
Invent new rPi, Ardino sol-powered black boxes for mariners?
You're a good writer too, L.
I have followed their advice, and while it's difficult to turn one's career on a dime, I'm happy with the results so far. What I'm doing "feels right," and I'm much better at it. I think about this every day.
Your aptitude profile will be different than mine. At this point, I've referred about a dozen friends to the center. Some have got value from it, others haven't. The ones who benefited the most were those who were open to making changes. (Some people will spend $700 and then throw away results that don't fit their self-image. That's a waste.)
I specifically recommend JOCRF to apparently intelligent people who have a hard time settling down in a career, or say they are bored. Perhaps they don't "know themselves" well enough - that's where the test helps.
Thiel should pay people to quit their jobs. The creative energy would be incredible.
Right on! Have fun :)
I don't dislike the company nor am I bitter... I am simply no longer interested.
Fwiw, when they did not hire me originally, they said they wanted to keep in touch - and they kept their word. They reached out about 6 months later, but I was already living the startup dream at that point.