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One in five Covid-19 patients develop mental illness within 90 days – study (reuters.com)
488 points by MKais on Nov 10, 2020 | hide | past | favorite | 360 comments



Congratulations, you have earned the achievement “chronic condition”.

Your rewards are as follows.

You have max exhaustion at all hours of the day!

Exercise recovery is bumped from next day to 2 weeks!

Your pain level is now on par with dying cancer patients!

Everyone now considers you lazy and incompetent!

Doctors now blame all symptoms on anxiety!

You gain +1 to medical research ability. But -20 to Reputation.

You now get spontaneous and useless medical advise from people that believe in essential oil.

You are now on timer with your job until sympathy runs out!

Disability now can mock you openly as clearly your faking and don’t have a real condition!

You are now a burden to your family!

+10 sneak score; you quickly learn to hide your suffering!

+20 to loneliness!

-20 to persuasion! Asking for help gets little from doctor's.

+10 Planning! Your kids may be orphans soon, make sure they get taken care of. Read fine print on death benefits. ——-

Staying positive when you have a chronic condition is incredibly difficult.

Your not going to get through it without losing your mind now and then.


This is a horrible part of COVID that no one seems to get. Chronic conditions are life changing, and no part of it is good.

It's different, but as an example, I injured my back (i don't really even know how) and was in intense pain for approximately 8 months. You know that feeling when you burn your hand on something? It normally last 5-15 minutes, well it was like that, but inside my lower spine all the time, for a solid 4 months...and then in duller state for another 4. I am still struggling with pain from time to time, but i'm once again able to sleep a full night (something i couldn't do for around 5-6 months), do physical things and not regret every movement. At the start of the injury, i was probably the fittest I've ever been, but now i'm probably the least fit i've ever been. It's seriously sucked. Who am I kidding, it still sucks...coughing hurts...but its improving and that gives me hope that one day it'll be 'normal' again.

Until you've had a long term injury, you have no idea how to sympathize. Right in the middle of this i had a close friend get upset with me that I came over when I knew he was painting, and didn't offer to help. I was frustrated he even considered it a possibility, i was struggling to sit in a car for more than an hour, how was I going to paint a wall or ceiling? People just don't understand.

To everyone suffering with something that inhibits their ability to enjoy life, i'm sorry but wish you the best. To everyone looking in from the outside, assume its 10x worse than what you see and reconsider your next move.


Many folks have a hard time understanding chronic pain. I did too until I suffered from it for a period of 6 months. I injured my neck and my right arm went numb. The pain from my neck down to my finger tips was a constant 10 out of 10, 24/7, even in my sleep. There was no amount of pain killers that would help.

I freaked out my whole family telling them that if it doesn't go away I don't think I can make it. There was a point where I got an axe and asked my wife to hack my arm off at the shoulder. Miraculously, it finally healed somehow and I just remember thinking how wonderful it felt to have a second chance at life.

I understand now why people with chronic pain want to end their lives. For some poor souls it seems like the only way to get rest/peace from the constant and exhausting pain.


I absolutely do not want to minimize your experience, but I also want to point out that pain doesn't have to be excruciating to be life changing. Even 1 out of 10 pain can make it harder to concentrate or sleep, and, without proper management, can be debilitating. Chronic excruciating pain is, of course, oh so much worse. But even mild pain, when it extends out across months and years and decades, is not something you can appropriately manage by just rubbing some tough on it.


I do not want to minimize your experience either, as somebody suffering from chronic pain for the past two years myself. Chronic pain sensitizes you further, having this awareness helps you deal with your condition better. I highly recommend reading the following article.

https://www.painscience.com/articles/pain-is-weird.php

And as Dave Chappelle says -

Got to find a way to find joy in your existence in spite of that feeling.


I know a girl, my 'Viking friend' that landed upside down with a tractor on top of her. Just about everything that could be broken was broken. She ended up a thrill seeker because anything that would have killed her was also a blessing in disguise. Constant chronic pain at the maximum of what you are able to endure and live. The choice: painkillers and zoned out, unable to do much of anything or no painkillers, continuously in pain but at least conscious. She eventually learned how to deal with it, found a job that took her all over the world and is now happily married. One very impressive person.


I often sit and wonder "why the fuck do I need to feel the pain all the time". I'll literally feel it until I die. What's the point?

If it was a machine with problems, I'd just set it to generate a report/warning once in a while and not waste energy probing the sensors every second.

Remind me once every few hours that yes, my back and knees are still fucked (doctors' advice: just live with it...oook).

I don't need it 24/7 (OK subtract a few hours when sleeping without waking up because of it), it's literally pointless.


I don't think you are supposed to live indefinitely under chronic conditions. We're so outside of design scopes.


People put way to much trust in doctors. I have family members we are clearly suffering exact same issues I have. I keep telling them to go ask for X,Y & Z test. Everyone of them as assured me their doctors don’t see any reason to run those tests. Then they complain about how hard life is.

Blows my mind.


Trusting "Experts" is a pandemic. We see it everywhere. They ubiquitous "They say..."

Trust economists that we can print trillions and its fine. Trust military the war is "almost over". Trust politicians that they will fix our problems. Trust teachers to teach our kids (Teachers need parents support at home!). Trust Coaches to teach our players (you gotta play catch at home to be good at baseball!). Trust doctors... trust priests... trust police...

The list goes on...


You have a good point, blind trust is never good. Should not be downvoted imho.

Sadly, it seems that the majority of people who start researching things on their own often arrive to completely wrong conclusions. And that's dangerous, for them and for everyone else.

An economist, for example, would have years of information and training in the field. And that forms a knowledge base in their brain that's (mostly) accurate, so anything they research and learn will be more correct than what an electrician/programmer/politician by trade would find.

To put it simply, they have more information and experience.

Of course, there are exceptions, some people are smart and can run circles around experts, but as I said, the majority of people are likely to arrive at the wrong conclusions.

I don't know how this could be fixed, perhaps more oversight and checks over the experts (many cases where people are just winging it or are complete frauds). But going off on your own and not trusting experts at all is a bad idea.


It could be that a lot of other professions don't have the same reflection rate as scientific areas.

In science and engineering, we are constantly being forced into realization that we were wrong, and we constantly try to fix things where the fix is just yet another problem we created.

I mean, even if you can code for 20 years, if anybody asks you whether you can program or not, you'll probably answer "nope I don't know anything about programming"... and that's a sign for an experienced person in that profession.

On the other hand, a lot of professions can get lucky with social camouflage, where they can blame others and it doesn't stick out for a controlling person. A lot of people that made it this way never were forced into reflecting on their bad decisions.


Experts are just like the rest of us.. egg spurts. Remember that folks :)


An ENT doctor recently told me antibiotics don't cause tinnitus.

The doctor at the covid plasma donation center sent my wife home because her clearly labeled "positive" (1.4 threshold, my wife's result was 4.9, but the doctor wanted a minimum of "80") test was too low for plasma donation -- it was not, the doctor was talking about a different quantitative test. After 8 months of people donating covid plasma, this doctor had no clue. It makes my blood boil thinking how many other people didn't donate plasma because of this idiot-- I sent my wife back and told her to make a big fuss and ask for another doctor, who actually explained the idiot doctor my wife can absolutely donate plasma, they just ran different kind of tests, and my wife's test result was more than likely meeting their own required antibody levels.

This was not a medical issue, it was a common sense issue -- if her test had a positive threshold level of 1.4 and she had a 4.9 result, how could this doctor not realize something was wrong with her requiring a value of "80". Did she actually think that only Chuck Norris can donate covid plasma?

My psychiatrist bullshitted me about the mechanism of action of some meds she was prescribing (I knew because I looked them up as treatment options beforehand) -- she did prescribe the "correct" medicine as far as I remember, but she just did not know the correct mechanism of action.

The infectious dissease specialist in my hospital stay for COVID-19 told me the hydroxychloroquine she was giving me was a proven anti-viral medication that worked really well in their national acclaimed hospital. Again, she was really clueless, she was just following protocol, she could at least have shut her mouth if she was clueless. They only gave hydroxychloroquine to otherwise healthy individuals because or cardiac issues the medicine was known to cause, OF COURSE those patients had really good outcomes, they were otherwise healthy, young individuals.

My wife is a dentist, she really likes her surgeon boss and his approach of telling patients the true odds of success of certain procedures and what to realistically expect out of them. But a lot of patients don't like that. They want to hear the doctor has a 100% success rate with every procedure and that all his dental implants last a lifetime.

So part of the problem is the public that will choose a lying, perhaps clueless doctor with a god complex above an honest doctor that really knows his stuff and is honest and upfront with his patients.


Had similar, had a severe reaction to the newer class blood thinners. Nurse at hematologists swore up and down that no one has reactions to it. Studies all prove that. Called me a liar.

Well started dealing with other specialist because I was having severe problems due to this medication.

Vascular and others all gave me warnings as they had been seeing a lot of problems. I found out the studies were done mostly in China, and were suspect.

Hematologist let me know I wasn’t allowed to come in because I wanted to switch. Mocked me for looking things up.

I had not taken it in 3 days and was already losing vision. So waiting months for another practice was a death sentence.

That was my breaking point. Stopped being Mr. polite.

First time I ever screamed and threatened a lawsuit.

Got my new medication. Life got better.

Also yeah antibiotics definitely can have a powerful effect.

Oddly I was diagnosed correctly due to how I responded to certain antibiotics.


Trial and error. I ran a constant 6-9 pain level.

Down to 1-3 most of the time. But took years of trial and error, and so many mistakes to get here.


It does reach a point that living is worse than death.

Had a similar final. Intentionally became a lunatic at ER. Refused to take prescribed blood thinner, which is a quick death for me. They finally listened and gave me a different one. Life drastically improved after that’s.


Highly relatable. I've never considered taking my own life, but there were certainly moments where I thought "i need to get this fixed, i cannot live this way for the rest of my life".


I hear you. Blew a disk in high school. Set me back decades. A few years ago I got serous on stretching videos, finally found the ones that “fix” it. Doctors and chiropractors were helpful, but it never lasted


I find that well-executed strength training (i.e. with proper form) eliminates all kinds of back-related issues for me. This talk has been really eye opening for me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9poXGU11ms


+1 on this, for me deadlifting has single-handedly fixed my back. I tried PT for it, with mixed results, but once I started lifting it completely went away. YMMV, but it's worth considering for sure.


I'm clearly doing something wrong, but lifting has driven every time I've injured my back in the past 5 years. I've had trainers coach me on form, and _most_ of the time I'm fine. But if I have bad form p% of the time (e.g. 0.5-3%), and working out becomes a ~daily thing, then I have a handful of opportunities per year to injure myself.


You kind of provide recipe how to avoid it yourself. One suggestion that might or might not be relevant - don't do weightlifting at your proper max, and don't push your limits that way. Its a way to grow fast but also sure way to injury. There is no way to be at your limit and keep the proper perfect form, every time. You can always add more repetitions to workout.

For me weightlifting is about staying in shape for things like mountain adventures, feeling great, looking good. But Arnold-look is a silly goal for long term wellness, and so are the methods to get there. Once I stopped pushing the numbers and focused on more repetitions, I never had any injury. That's worth much more than some momentary number of kilos/pounds you did today - nobody will care about that tomorrow, but injuries remain, sometimes forever.


YMMV, but I found the following articles quite useful to 1) help self-manage symptoms brought on during strength training, and 2) to stop obsessing about my using "bad" form during training:

https://www.barbellmedicine.com/blog/pain-in-training-what-d...

https://www.barbellmedicine.com/blog/movement-variability-sh...


Would you mind sharing the videos?


https://youtu.be/ntUXh7qiyr0 And

https://youtu.be/PJJO9PmXm90

These are the two stretches that help me the most.

Highly recommend going through bob and Brad, and Dr Jo on YouTube. I try stuff all the time and have regained much of my mobility.


Thank you for sharing these.


Not sure about the original poster specifically, but when I had a herniated disk the two movements that helped the most (and I still perform along with others to this day) were:

- Prone Press Up (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sws_GwrlYO0): Relieves tension in lower back, pressing discs back towards their natural position.

- Banded Hamstring Stretches (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msxQR56U7sI): You can use a belt for this if you don't have the bands, but properly and consistently stretching my hamstrings was the biggest thing I did to relieve (and 'cure') my back pain after the herniation.


This one has been wonderful for me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BOTvaRaDjI

He runs through them pretty fast, but someone in the comments recommended playing it at 0.75x speed and that works great.


I used this to get rid of my back pain from sitting all day. Now I prevent it altogether, by getting up once per hour, and walking around for five minutes, so I haven't had to do these stretches in a while.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNN3K2qj-L0


My anecdote: I tweaked my back 3 times in 18 months (like bedridden/WFH/swearing like a sailor for a week). Then I started going to a 1hour yoga class 1-2 times a week, and it's now been another 18 months without any issues. (Since covid I've been using DownDog app and doing 10-15 min sessions)


any series you like or do you just mean ones specific to your purpose?


I'm sure you've seen drs. so I'm not going to get into too much detail about how I fixed my back pain, but I understand where you are coming from. I couldn't stand up straight for months. Laying in the MRI machine long enough to get a good image was excruciating. Just getting comfortable each night to sleep was an exercise in frustration. Narcotic painkillers didn't really help me, but a pain that never goes away helped me understand how people do get addicted to pills.

Finally, I had one of those injections directly on my spine and it was like magic. I walked into the appointment and couldn't stand up straight and walked out like I had never been hurt. For weeks, I would wake up each morning and dread getting out of bed because I wondered would this be the morning the pain came back.

It's been years now, and knock on wood, I hope to never have a problem again. I was always a weight lifter, but stopped powerlifting (maxing things like DLs), and stopped playing basketball. I still exercise a lot, but my entire focus now is on longevity. Strength is still a key component, but so is flexibility and learning proper movement.


I had a similar experience 20 years ago. I had a herniated disc triggered by heavy lifting. Spent about 10 months in pain (enough that it was a problem but not so much that it was debilitating). Finally had an epidural after months of PT that was going nowhere and was 100% fine the next day! I was lucky, the epidural broke the cycle of inflammation that in all likelihood the PT was actually aggravating.

BUT....

Last year I had another herniated disc triggered by axing down a tree. This time it was really bad. I spent two months in debilitating pain unable to move or really do much of anything. Couldn't stand, couldn't walk, couldn't sit, couldn't lay down. All I could do was dope myself up on narcotics and try to sleep the time away.

I had two epidurals. The first one took the edge off the pain away but I was till unable to move. The second epidural I actually regressed.

So I went and had a microdiscectomy done. Turns out my nerve had slipped into a canal that had no room for it and was pinched inside. A week or two of recovery and I felt great again.

BUT....

I didn't change my habits, covid-19 hit, I started working from home where I did not have anything close to an ergonomic setup and my back started to ache again. This time it was the original disc. I was doing ok, but it was enough that I knew I should talk to my doctor. A couple weeks later, at the pool, I decided to go off the diving board while my back was slightly bothering, and that slight bother became nearly debilitating pain again and two months of physical therapy.

I feel great again, the PT worked this time.

What's my point? The injection doesn't always work. PT doesn't always work. There's lots of ways things can go wrong. Take care of yourself and be careful, next time you might not be so lucky!


I completely understand. I'm fairly certain my original issue was caused by playing basketball. The running and jumping really does put a lot of strain on the body. I have never played ball again since the injury.

As I mentioned, I also changed my entire workout regime. While strength is super important, 500+ pound DLs maybe not so much at my age. Both basketball and powerlifting I love, so it was definitely a mental shift. But, now I'm probably in the best complete shape I have ever been in. My cardio, strength and flexibility are balanced and good. COVID has actually been a good thing since I can jump up at any point in the day and take a 15 minute yoga class.

Good luck, I hope neither of us have to deal with back pain again :)


Regarding your back pain, try to start walking barefoot using a forefoot technique, as opposed to heel striking as most people do. I suffered a lot with back pain (for years, despite the fact I was very active), tried everything to fix it to no avail, eventually switched to barefoot/forefoot running and walking (with all my shoes being zero drop and minimalistic), my back problems went away completely.


I can imagine trying to run by placing the toes/front foot first, but I find it difficult to imagine walking like that since it seems awkward. Do you have any links that depict this well?


Buy a pair of Vibrams. Walking in toe shoes that have little to no heel support will naturally change over your gait in a week or two. I used to run 3-5 miles most days on concrete in running shoes and had knee and hip pain afterwards each day. Switching to toe shoes and by extension forefoot running eliminated the pain completely.

The impact of walking and running is dissipated into your calves instead of your joints, and the nice thing about muscle is that it grows back. Take it slow as you ramp up, I promise your calves aren't ready for it yet.


There are plenty of great "barefoot" walking shoes in the market nowadays.

I like to run on Vibrams and sandals (I generally use a Shamma Warriors during the summer), and a have a bunch of other shoes for walking (Lems, Freet, Vivobarefoot, etc.)

A good all-around barefoot shoe that is suitable for both running and walking that I'd recommend is the Lems Primal 2.

Also: use toe socks (Injinji is the only brand I'd recommend) and, if you can, use toe spacers for a while (1-2 years minimum) to correct some potential issues with your toes placement (unfortunately the only brand that seems to be decent enough in the market is Correct Toes, but it's rather expensive; the cheaper ones you can find everywhere are no good in my experience)


Here's a video that illustrates the walking barefoot technique:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGST6h3yhJE

As for the running technique, a good reference is this website:

http://runforefoot.com/


Have you ever had a stone bruise on your heal?

Yes? You walk like that. Shorter steps, kind of gliding a little bit.

No? Buy some Vibrams. You'll get one soon enough.


I was able to transition to front foot walking by shifting my weight forward.


I get that exact burning sensation in the bottom of my spine! Weak core muscles; specifically wrong muscles trying to support the core. I had zero lower abdominals. Pilate's helps a lot.

I have to consciously engage muscles, even after practicing for years (can't afford Pilate's sessions which would make it go faster). Now I very rarely get the burning sensation and corresponding days, weeks, or months or not being able to sit or do much of anything.


Deleted.


That person is describing their chronic condition that has nothing to do with COVID. How would you blame that on the COVID quarantine procedures?


I didn't blame their condition on Covid but that doesn't matter at this point.


They described the mental hardships that come along with a chronic condition. Is it possible that quarantine is worsening those hardships? Sure. But when you claim that COVID related hardships are due exclusively to quarantine you are basically invalidating their experience by saying that a chronic condition alone wouldn't cause these issues.

Your comment would have been totally fine as a top level comment. It is a believable theory that quarantine is worsening mental illness. Your problem was the context in which your comment existed and the way you were effectively dismissing OPs experience out of hand.


>They described the mental hardships that come along with a chronic condition. It it possible that quarantine is worsening those hardships? Sure. But when you claim that COVID related hardships are due exclusively to quarantine you are basically invalidating their experience by saying that a chronic condition alone wouldn't cause these issues.

I didn't claim that but I don't think that matters to you. All I said was that it's hard to tease out the difference between covid caused hardships and covid treament caused hardships. Cancer doesn't make your hair fall out on its own.

>Your comment would have been totally fine as a top level comment. It is a believable theory that quarantine is worsening mental illness. Your problem was the context in which your comment existed and the way you were effectively dismissing OPs experience out of hand.

I didn't dismiss his hardships. I didn't even dispute them. Stop putting words in my mouth. I only pointed out that (similar symptoms in other people who have had covid) might be caused by how we're treating it (quarantining people and so on) not the disease itself.


There is no point in continuing this conversation. You deleted your comment so it is both no longer relevant and can't be referred back to for further critique. Although the fact you deleted it after already posting it from a throwaway account would seemingly show that it was a comment that you weren't willing to stand behind.


This account is how old and has how many comments? Maybe it's not a throwaway anymore. Clearly I stand behind my comment enough to still be discussing it here.


You didn't stand behind your original comment or you wouldn't have deleted it. You are only standing behind what you claim your comment said. However now no one can actually judge whether those are the same or not.

Either way, the end result is that both of us look like idiots continuing to argue over this. That is why it is pointless to continue.


My point was Chronic conditions / isolation. can cause/worsen mental illness. Covid or otherwise Personally I’ve had the best year in a long time, because I found the right treatments. Only one month before things locked down.


I don't disagree with your point. I simply got the impression from throwaway0a5e's comment that they were saying that these issues weren't worsened by quarantine but they originated from quarantine.


I've seen this exact thing happen with a facebook acquaintance. She already posted a lot about every problem she has on social media even before she got Covid, but with covid it was another beast. She tested positive before she got symptoms but before the symptoms even really began she was reading anything and everything in full blown hypochrondia-mode and getting more and more depressed and anxious about it (from what I could surmise from the editorializing she added to every covid related article or study she shared). Within one week of testing positive she was deep into the articles about chronic issues, so it was well before quarantining period was even over. It was pretty wild to observe and she's still posting stuff these days. It's hard to distinguish what is legitimate and what's for attention. While there may be legitimate issues, I can't help but think that it would be hard to separate legitimate issues from psychosomatic ones brought about by the way she dealt with it (and how it has become part of her facebook identity). She may be an extreme case, but I could totally see the same happening with other people to a lesser degree.


Oh it can be both. She could have a chronic issue, and be an attention seeker.

Hypochondria is a major problem. Part of me finding out what was wrong to make a list of every symptom, every condition that a subset of symptoms, keep track of every test and what conditions it eliminated as possibilities. The sets of possibilities are enormous. At every step you get called a hypochondriac.

I didn’t directly find it, but when I showed table of symptoms, and what medications had been tried and failed and what tests had been run a doctor realized it was a rare autoimmune condition.

It’s such an odd thing to be given a terrible diagnosis. But feel immense relief that it’s not “in your head”

From support group, this is Apparently a common reaction.


Yeah, totally agree it can be both, but of all the people I know that have had it, she's the only one exhibiting both hypochondria and posting comments suggestive of anxiety/depression. Certainly anecdotal, but enough to merit further investigation.


> separate legitimate issues from psychosomatic ones

I know what you are trying to say, but phrasing it like this is harmful. Psychosomatic issues are absolutely legitimate. Knowing it's psychosomatic means there may be other avenues of addressing it than if it wasn't, but calling the issues "not legitimate" is very problematic, akin to telling someone with depression "just think happy thoughts".


Yeah, that was poor word choice. I guess I was going for issues actually caused by the disease and not issues that are self inflicted or inflicted by society's response to the disease.


Even after months, there is -- fortunately -- no evidence that Covid causes chronic illness except in very rare cases.


Bro what The sad thing is that you get to gloat and be right for now but when you’re wrong next year other people are suffering and you’re scot free!


Let's take it case by case. All sorts of things could happen, so let's not react until we have some signal. Otherwise we run the risk of overreacting and creating more harm than the thing we've reacted to.


I really don't care about the outcome of something I have no reason to believe will happen.


Try some rona it’s delicious. Or are you too scared? Just go to your local bar

You can help the economy and get immunity at the same time! What do you have to lose?


Bars are closed.


If you don’t like where you live you can move somewhere else[1]

1. Economics[2]

2. You not having friends was a prepandemic and a you problem


Stop making stuff up.


Well I suffered from that for more than a decade but in the end in turned out in was indeed "anxiety". Your thoughts can make you sick. It took me a long time to realize that idea, to admit that psychosomatic effects are real and strong, that it's not craziness, and yes doctors are usually not very useful with that.

Simple test: what were your thoughts and emotions 5 minutes ago? 1 hour ago? since this morning? and how were you breathing (slowly with good posture or rapidly)? If your brain is constantly circling thoughts with no cool-down with bad posture it's guaranteed you will have physical problems.

For me the cure was a combination of:

- Slow breathing exercises

- Mindfulness (to learn to listen to the body and emotions, an to be aware and able to "control" thoughts). No mysticism bullshit, just having a brain and body at rest and present.

- Stoic philosophy : not worrying with things not in my control, not being affected by outcomes (e.g. objectively did my best and the boss/client is not happy? That's fine for me)

- Strength training

- Nutrition

- Financial security (I know I'm lucky but that doesn't change the point)

- Edit: "reconnecting with nature": again no mysticism, just outdoor walks, gardening, and taking the time to observe and appreciate while being fine doing nothing

The best I could describe my default state now is as being relatively at peace, with no negative thoughts circling, slowly breathing with good posture (that I can maintain while coding long hours for example). I'm still of anxious nature and still worry about the future, but only on the time period I will allow it (and not as a the permanent background noise). YMMV obviously.


Funny enough - I suffered for 6 years a pain condition. Luckily it was acute enough at times that it was hard for me to believe it was all mental. But that still didn’t stop the sheer force of multiple doctors claiming psychosomatic origins, even flipping my own parents partially in believing that. By the end of it all, I was just about convinced it was mental. I did have a ton of anxiety, it was impossible to figure out the causality.

Ultimately, a genetic test revealed it was a rare autoimmune disorder that causes a wide variety of hard to pin down inflammation-related pain.

I had already come up with a ton of coping mechanisms, and was halfway to accepting it was “just me” or “anxiety”. I’m so glad I finally found what it was, because it would have been devastating to have convinced myself all that was my fault without even any clear genesis.

Not to say yours isn’t. But it makes me wonder: we have no idea the complexity and incidence of smaller phenotypical irregularities that lead to any number of “minor pains” that get ultimately interpreted as “anxiety disorders”. You may even be anxious - who wouldn’t, with an unresolved medical issue spanning years - but you may also have some imbalances driving it that are hard to pin down.


Yes you are right to point that it can juste be coping mechanism and that there can still be an underlying unknown medical condition, responsible for parts or all the symptoms. In my case the stomach burns and acidic reflux part were not « stress » but a kind of food allergy (kind of like ulcers were « stress » until it was discovered it was a bacteria).

Your last paragraph sums it up perfectly.


Do you know the name of it and the affected genes? My wife has had autoimmune symptoms for years and the doctors keep saying it's anxiety as well. We've had a genetic test done for the common disorders but didn't find anything


Dont have the genes on hand but it’s Familial Mediterranean Fever, more commonly shows when youngish. Idk if there’s anything that’s come to replace it but if you’re ok with putting data in hands of big med, promethease is what helped me find it (was before they sold out), likely still worth trying.


Don’t be afraid to push deeper into testing for various autoimmune.

Lot of doctors run out of date tests. False negatives are also a big issue.

Sjogrens is really bad for that, 30% show negative on the standard test.

there is an “Early Sjo” that catches what other tests miss.


You developed what I like to call my toolkit for fixing the variety of things doctors have no solutions for.

Crazy facebook/twitter people love to talk about their cure-all (why is always essential oils??). But the reality is there is never a simple solution to solve the issues.

Think of it as a holistic solution. Things to examine:

- Nutrition | Are you eating regularly or too much?

- Sleep | Is your sleeping regular

- Movement | I hate the word exercise! Just walking, stretching, or being outside is helpful

- Meditation | Learning how to use this to reduce anxiety and activates your parasympathetic nervous system

All of these can be very low/no cost

As for things that cost some money

- Therapy | Learning to understand yourself!

- Acupuncture | This varies for each person, but has helped my anxiety


Something I’ve leaned is a lot of things are nonsense, but they may work anyway.

Nutrition is the biggest. I’ve read so many people that come up with some crazy diet. Usually eliminating toxins nonsense.

But then you realize they are circling around an autoimmune protocol diet.

The person has inflammation problems, but doesn’t know it. They are slowly finding what really works.

Supplements is another one. People go crazy about them.

Turns out most people have a magnesium deficiency. Number one supplement that helped me out.


I was shocked at how scientific some of the Facebook groups are. Every question get 30-70 responses. A good portion have great advice.


That's great for you and all, but this reads like you are dismissing other people's very real and debilitating experiences of chronic illness.


The type that comes from anxiety is real and debilitating too, and I wouldn't dismiss that either. I lived with that for years before it became clear I had symptoms that boiled down to me stressing myself out enough that they occurred (tremors, pain, IBD, sleep disturbances, cardiac, etc). Psychosomatic doesn't mean "imaginary"--rather, it means being a disorder of both psychological and somatic (physical) nature. That's one of the very first humps I had to get over to accept it was happening to me: the symptoms are every bit as real as in a fully somatic condition.

So I took the comment's point as that there are multiple potential causes for a given manifestation, and chronic conditions in particular are confusing because they invariably end up with physical -and- mental symptoms. There's something to be said for exploring easing the one you can do by yourself, at least to some extent. Mindfulness, slow breathing, and some of those other techniques helped me too. No matter which aspect is primary and which aspect is secondary, easing the mental stress some can still help.


> Mindfulness, slow breathing, and some of those other techniques helped me too.

Any other advice for what helped you?


Not specifically. Everyone's different, but for me self-awareness was the key. Mindfulness and breathing exercises (very close to the same thing unless you get deep into MM) are both about processing your various physical and mental reactions. That makes them especially applicable towards breaking vicious cycles like the one I'd gotten in, where I was freaked out in part because of the symptoms so it became self-perpetuating.

I don't want to paint these as silver bullets. I still deal with my anxiety disorder on a regular basis. I just feel more able to look at it in third person a little to defuse some of the worst bits.

Edit: I'm always hesitant when someone uses the word advice, so I gave a vaguer reply than I needed to. I won't give advice but will give a little more detail.

Looking at the original list, the specific ones there I also have tried to improve with varying success are stoic philosophy, nutrition and fitness. But I'll also add sleep, since of them, sleep has had the most immediate effect that I've noticed. However, there's a chicken/egg thing there if you're too uncomfortable to sleep. I used a short course of sleep meds, but those have their own risks so YMMV.

Stoic philosophy is good to aspire to, but it's more end goal than technique IMO. It's a good thought yardstick, though, for what you "should" be feeling if you can step outside yourself a little.


At the risk of being flippant, saying that all illness is chronic illness is dismissing other people's very real and debilitating experiences of continual anxiety.

There's a balance. The two sides of anxiety and chronic illness aren't at war. You can say it could be one thing without dismissing the other.


I identify a lot with parent comment. Had a lot of chronic pain resulting in very intense and sharp pain near the nose, I really thought it was linked to sinus cavities being inflamed.

At the end it was very linked to my mental state, it took me half a decade to figure it. As parent comment is suggesting, slow breathing to remove tensions near your rib cage can help.

The most useful tool for me is to smoke cannabis, I then identify pain points in my body and massaging them with my hand vigorously is effective. Hope it can help people having « the same kind » of chronic pain.


Your almost describing TMJ. There is a spot between nose and ear that gets crazy tight for me. First time I Painfully massaged it out I had a 75% decrease in migraines.


Sorry if that’s what you got, my intention was only to bring my experience that these symptoms can indeed come from « anxiety », not that it’s the exclusive cause.


Audiobooks are great for calming down racing thoughts


I find this too. I have several series of books I’ve gone through enough times to not need to be fully engaged or worry if I miss bits. I always have one playing when I go to sleep and it gives me something to hold just enough focus to not get lost in my thoughts.


Did I miss something? Everyone is discussing their anecdotal chronic condition stories, but the article is not about chronic conditions. We know the following from the article:

- 1 in 5 people will have a first time diagnosis of a mental illness (including but not limited to anxiety) within the first 90 days of being infected.

This does not mean the diagnosis is chronic or even lasts beyond the duration of the disease. There have been studies done showing that about 2% of people still have symptoms resulting from coronavirus after 12 weeks [1].

We should not be conflating people getting anxiety from having coronavirus, with people developing chronic mental illness.

[1] https://covid.joinzoe.com/us-post/long-covid


Chronic Condition will give you a mental illness was original point.

The fear of such a condition or death can also create tremendous amount of anxiety.


Got Covid 4 weeks ago, got better two weeks later. This weekend I went out for my first walk, about an hour. Although I didn't have any lung issues during the really-ill period, I definitly can't walk as fast or long as I used to, one hour felt more like two or three. I really had to pace myself. I broke out into heavy sweating going up a small hill. When I got home, I laid down in bed and dozed the rest of the day. Pure exhaustion.

After I got 'better' I thought it was comparable in severity to a bad flu. It's becoming rapidly apparent that the real impact shows itself after sickbed. I'm 33. I feel like I've aged a few decades in the past month. I really hope this will pass.


Keep your head up, statistics are in your favor for healing back to full health.


Yes, I know and I'm counting on that. But the odds are some of the worst I've seen in my life so far, and there is no cure in case I do need it. I never felt before that hope is all I have.


In my case I got great help with medical cannabis, but access was only possible this year. All the suffering I endured during these years just because suits didn't want big pharma to lose money... I am bitter about this that justice won't be done. I hope one day karma will reach those people who block access to medicine. I am not saying cannabis is a miracle, but it has changed my life for better.


I'm glad that substances like cannabis are enjoying wider legal access, but you're right that they aren't always miracles. I was recently diagnosed with bipolar disorder, and in the months since I've completely stopped all cannabis-related products, my mental health has improved considerably without having to take prescribed medication.


I got a taste of this from a severe case of pneumonia. I always took my health granted, but never realized how much I took other people’s health for granted too. It’s hard to imagine a lack of ability or capacity when you’ve been healthy your entire life.


You now have impostor syndrome (because you don't feel pain, and your exhaustion and other symptoms are really not that bad, but you have some problems)


Oh that’s a good one!

Nurse once asked me pain level, I said 8. She lectured me that’s ER level of pain, not to use it anymore, I must be a pill seeker.

It was an 8.


This really hits home for me. I have a genetic disease (no specifics to remain somewhat anonymous) that generally causes me to be in pain 24/7. Sometimes it's worse, sometimes it's better - but it's always there. As such I've learned to live with it the best that I can.

The last time I went to the ER (a few years ago now) for something unrelated, I was in extreme pain. I'm used to pain. I can tolerate constant pain pretty well. This pain was way above what I could tolerate.

Instead of help from the nurse I got a lecture about lying about drug use and lying about pain. Eventually I got the help I needed but the whole experience was just so degrading at a time I would have preferred to die rather than continue the pain I felt.


what's sad is that the drug war has conditioned our medical professionals to distrust their patients from the onset.


What does "level 8" pain mean?

[Edit: I really meant to ask, how do you know it's an 8 rather than a 7 or a 9? Isn't this very highly subjective? What does the number even tell us? Have you read https://xkcd.com/883/?]


The thing with chronic pain is that it's very difficult to quantify.

I have small fibre neuropathy (nerve damage) in my arms and legs, and when it first started I thought I was going to go crazy - I just couldn't stand that amount of pain, constantly. I cried a lot, I begged doctors to make it go away, I went to the ER.

The fact is you can't stay like that forever - you either kill yourself, or you somehow learn to live with it.

You don't get used to chronic pain, but you adjust to a new "normal" level of pain. You develop coping mechanisms and learn to "bury it", get on with it as best you can. If you're lucky, you find some medication that actually helps somewhat. You research your condition and possible remedies, a lot. All of this isn't to say it gets easy, believe me it fecking well does not.

A lot of people (doctors included) don't seem to believe that you can be in severe pain, while sitting and conversing with them - "he seems fine to me!".

I'll add as well that I'm one of the "lucky" ones for whom a diagnostic test (skin biopsy) has shown concrete evidence that doctors believe in - without that, you'll get nothing but platitudes and shown the door. You'll probably also get told you have fibromyalgia, even if you don't remotely fit the criteria. I know this firsthand, because I have had to research and guide clueless doctors and insist on tests, and insist on re-tests when they've messed up.


> A lot of people (doctors included) don't seem to believe that you can be in severe pain, while sitting and conversing with them - "he seems fine to me!".

That's very familiar. "I feel like I'm being stabbed in the eye" "But you seen fine" "It's been doing that for the last two years; at some point I just stopped reacting to it"

> I'll add as well that I'm one of the "lucky" ones for whom a diagnostic test (skin biopsy) has shown concrete evidence that doctors believe in

Having visible evidence definitely seems to help - my dermatologist seemed to be sceptical that my dermatographic urticaria[1] was as bad as I was saying given the dose of antihistamines I was on. She did a challenge test, and her first comment was words to the effect of "Huh, that _is_ severe". She ended up doubling the does of antihistamines. The "hidden" symptoms are much more of an uphill battle.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dermatographic_urticaria


Something different for every person, which is why I hate the 1-10 pain score. Some people will declare a stubbed toe a 10; others will self-amputate an arm and deem it a 6 because they weren't on fire while doing it. Medical staff don't really help by describing a 10 as "the worst pain you can imagine", given variance in imaginations.

I much prefer the "Hyperbole and a Half" author's pain scale. http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2010/02/boyfriend-does...


There's various pain scales, but all the good ones aren't different for every person.

They're the same because they don't quantify how much it hurts, but instead how the pain affects you.

A 10 would be pain so severe you are unable to perceive anything besides your pain or do anything except writhe.

An 8 on such a scale would be pain that makes it difficult to focus on anything else, let alone listen calmly to a person and give a coherent answer.

A 5, while being distracting, would still allow you to function on some level.

A 3 would be pain that is somewhat easy to ignore.

You see how this is a scale that can actually be measured by an outside observer and is much more useful in figuring out what medication to give. Because while two people may have the same injury, one of them may be able to completely ignore the pain even without medication - so giving medication would only do harm - while the second person may need medication in order to function.

Assuming such a scale was used, it would make sense for the nurse to say "it isn't an 8" - because if it was an eight you wouldn't have been able to listen calmly and explain that to her, by definition.


> one of them may be able to completely ignore the pain even without medication - so giving medication would only do harm

Well, it won't only do harm though, right? It will still get rid of that person's pain.

If I fracture my ankle, but I learn to compensate by constantly shifting my weight onto my good leg as I limp so that I can still do my job -- in that scenario, I still want my ankle fixed. I don't want a doctor saying, "ah, but you have the special limp, so a cast and crutches would only do you harm." I want the cast, because the cast is probably easier, more comfortable, and in the long term less dangerous than what I'm currently doing.

Why would pain be different? Should someone not be able to get relief from suffering just because they've gotten good at mentally focusing through it?

It seems like the result of approaching pain from the perspective you're advocating for would just be to discourage people from trying to take any practical and/or psychological steps to manage their own pain, because every minor success they have will make it harder for them to get any additional help.


> Why would pain be different?

It is completely different. Your analogy isn't great.

A fractured ankle is a bad thing. A cast certainly won't do harm. Pain is a response of your body to a bad thing. Suppressing it can do harm in itself.

Some pain can often be desirable because it prevents a patient from further injuring themselves by, for instance, putting weight on an injured ankle. Pain is a warning system.

Add to that all the possible side-effects of painkillers.

On top of that there's context for everything. You should probably give a patient that experiences pain which can't be avoided painkillers earlier than a patient who experiences pain when they put weight on something they shouldn't.


> You should probably give a patient that experiences pain which can't be avoided painkillers earlier than a patient who experiences pain when they put weight on something they shouldn't.

You're describing someone with chronic pain. So... we should prioritize giving painkillers to someone with chronic pain over someone someone with temporary pain that will quickly go away if they don't do something dangerous? I agree with that.

If someone has chronic pain, that pain isn't helping them avoid doing something bad to their body. It's just pointless pain with no benefit. And even if I can force myself to function with chronic pain, I can still have long-term damage from stress, lack of sleep, damage to relationships, even just damage in terms of pure suffering. It's dangerous for a doctor to say, "you can hold a conversation with me, so medication would only do you harm." I don't think that's an objective scale, and I don't think it actually captures the risks of long-term damage and suffering.

If you want something with more downside than a cast, sub out something like surgery in my analogy instead. Either way, the point is that just being able to function in society is not an adequate measure by itself of whether or not someone needs medical help.


> all the good ones

People who are regularly in great pain would read this comment as saying "you are being mauled by a bear, but if you have ripped your own vocal cords out so that you're not constantly screaming, we judge that preventing the bear from mauling you won't affect the environment much (since the screaming level will not change), so we will not prevent the bear from mauling you".


That has its own issues.

Talk to a chronic pain patient and they'll likely tell you they have to suppress reactions to the pain in order to not be dismissed as "playing it up" and thus drug seeking. That they are used to dealing with pain does not mean the pain is not there.

Add in myths like "black people can handle more pain", too. https://www.aamc.org/news-insights/how-we-fail-black-patient...


> Something different for every person

I absolutely refuse to give a numerical answer unless they first give me an objective calibration for the numbers. I recently got into a minor argument with a nurse before a minor surgery. "If you won't tell me a number, how will I know if I need to give you a painkiller?" "If I'm in enough pain to need a painkiller, I will tell you."

The number scale attempts to turn a subjective interpretation into an "objective" value. Instead of having to actually listen to people and apply training and experience to judge which treatments are needed, the number system de facto pushes that decision onto the patient so the doctor/nurse/etc only needs to follow a simple set of treatment rules. Similar to black box "AI" used in e.g. criminal sentencing and employee evaluations, the numeric pain scale is yet another example of a fundamentally subjective situation being laundered into a supposedly "objective" value.


There can be some utility in comparing over time. If the patient indicates a 9 before intervention, and a 5 afterwards, that means something's helping. The relative weight of a 9 versus someone else's 9 is irrelevant in this usage.


"The patient indicates" is still based on their completely subjective process of turning a mental state into a number. If they indicate a 9 before intervention, they did so by comparing the feeling of this this trauma to the fuzzy memory of breaking a bone as a child and the more recent but less painful memory of burning their finger in the kitchen a couple weeks ago. Then they sit and suffer from this trauma at approximately that same level of pain for the next 2 weeks, they'll have a new baseline to compare against.

It really sucks that we have no objective measure of pain; a tricorder that you could aim at someone and get a number back would be infinitely better than what we have now.


I'm saying the 9, by itself, may not be useful, but the "it was a 9 an hour ago, and now it's a 5" may be.


Not really because people have a terrible memory for pain. It can be worse afterward and still be a 5 (vs 9) just because they have got used to the pain.


That's way more meaningful. Had gout, experienced at least an 8.


Thank you - this seems a very reasonable scale. I think I might have never felt more than a six.


Yeah, you're right. Some people adjust way better than others...


I used to live with a paramedic who explained it like this: "It's difficult to quantify anything but the most extreme pain, so an easy benchmark is a 10. If your pain is a 10, then if the paramedic rushing you to the ER lights you on fire and throws you out the back of the ambulance, your pain would not increase."


It's supposed to be subjective; they aren't measuring pain against some objective measure or even against other patients, just how you're feeling personally.

This number will be used to determine if a more in depth tool is needed (like if you say 7-10). What type of treatment is needed (pain tolerance is different from person to person, so even if two people have the same injury or disease, one might say 8 and need pain killers and the other might say 3 and not). It will be used to gauge if a treatment is working (when you first came in you were at a baseline of 6, but after taking this treatment, you're at a 2), and so on.

Thus, a personal scale makes sense.


If you're trying to describe pain to a healthcare professional it's useful to either compare it to some other pain that you've had (childbirth, ear infection, dental abscess), or describe it's effects: "it hurts when I think about it", "it hurts when I move", "it distracts me from my day to day activities" "it's always there, it intrudes into my thoughts and I can't distract myself from it, it hurts even if I'm not moving", "it wakes me up at night, it's always painful, I'm struggling to have this conversation, it makes me think about ending my life".

Talk about the things you used to do that you are not able to do now because of the pain.

For short term pain number 8 is supposed to be able to read or converse but only with effort; dizzy and / or nauseous; limited physical activity; difficulty in functioning; and strong painkillers are not so effective.

Number 9 is unable to speak; crying out or moaning uncontrollably.

Number 7 is interference with sleep, difficulty concentrating.


It’s super subjective. For me 8 is. I can still talk at moment.

But if it goes on more than a few hours I will jump off a cliff to end suffering.

I stayed away from the really strong pain killers. But man it was hard. I did not want end up with an addiction on top of everything else.


Does anyone know if people have made serious attempts to do objective pain quantification? Of the ideas that come to mind, strategy 1 would be: let the patient press buttons that give her electrical shocks and let the patient say "This shock is worse than my pain, that shock is less bad, therefore my pain is between these two levels". (I once read about an early electrical scientist who would measure voltage by shocking himself and comparing the pain with known quantities. Googling, I find that "Kenneth Catania" has done this very recently to measure eels' output...) Strategy 2 would be to somehow observe pain nerves and/or the brain directly; I don't know if this is possible. Strategy 3 would be to describe hypothetical sources of pain and ask what the patient would prefer, though even a patient trying her best may not be able to correctly compare felt pain vs. imagined pain.

Wikipedia isn't much help[1]. It lists 30+ "pain measurement scales", but clicking a few of them doesn't tell me any specifics about how they work.

Looks like someone has in fact tried strategy 1. https://www.hindawi.com/journals/js/2018/6205896/ mentions: "Recently, a quantitative pain-assessing method using electrical stimulation was introduced [12–15]. PainVision™ devices measure perception threshold and pain produced by an electrical current. This system quantifies pain intensity by comparing the experienced pain with the intensity of electrical perceptions. The perception threshold indicates the minimal electric current sensed by the individual, and the pain produced is defined as the maximal electric current sensed by the individual. However, the skin resistance of an individual may affect the electrical measurement result [16–20]."

Their refinement continues: "our system measures from the patient’s skin resistance before measuring the pain." "In this work, we developed a pain measurement device that has two analysis methods, electrical stimulation and applying pressure, for more accurate cross-validation assessment. During electrical stimulation, electrical stress is applied on a nonpain site and then the observed stress can be compared to pain. ... During the pressure evaluation, pain was assessed by applying pressure on the pain site. Inflammation was induced on the rat’s hind paw by carrageenan, and then the inflamed hind paw was stimulated by a hand-type pressure stimulator. The pressure site was then compared with the inflammation levels." Seems like it might be workable.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pain_scale


"pill seeker" Jesus Christ, just punch me in the face, why don't you. I hate people who just go "oh you just want drugs". No, I want the pain to go away and not to be treated like I'm pretending.


Should have asked her what are you supposed to do? Jump off a building?

Chronic pain sucks...but people fail to understand that some people suffer from high level of pain and that doctors often fail to manage it. I have tried many things to manage my pain, it is at a point where I for the most part get on with my life with some "take it easy" days. Unfortunately, the only thing that helps is opiates, and currently nobody wants to prescribe those. My primary does and 30 pills of low dose last me months. Still when I switched doctors they refused giving me opiates, even though all the other meds lyrica, cymbalata, gabapentin did nothing. A pain doctor offered ketamine treatments at $500....like that is reasonable on monthly basis.


Yep, got a part of these issues after Epstein-Barr virus and especially

> Doctors now blame all symptoms on anxiety!

hits hard.


> > Doctors now blame all symptoms on anxiety!

Doctors are sometimes like developers, when they don't find the root cause of an issue they blame it on the network or the OS


This makes me curious.. As a sysadmin, the firewall is almost always blamed (or some imaginary change in the "system"). But often, simple things like DNS are the actual cause. I wonder what the equivalent most common blame and actual cause are in the medical world.


I think it depends on what field you're in within medicine. I think I would be willing to bet strokes would be high up on that list. There's a lot of neurologic conditions that strokes can mimic depending on severity. One that gets missed a lot of the time is vision related strokes (like a central retinal artery occlusion or a branch retinal artery occlusion), since a lot of doctors aren't super confident in their ophthalmology training. Or mimickers like migraines.


It's usually the damned load balancer, though.

A firewall is easy enough to test with pings, telnets, etc. but the LB rarely seems to make much sense and it seems like there's only one guy who knows how it works and they never explain what they changed.


Or istio stealing ALL traffic on a port. Even though the rule is for machine...


It’s not DNS

There is a no way it’s DNS

It was DNS


I read medical reports periodically. It is insanely hard.


If the process has been working for years and you just had a release and now it's crashing, you're gonna blame the release.

(But to continue the analogy, a reason to be scrutinize this paper is, because the process has been working fine for years no one has looked at the logs in an age, and when they do, oh my .... there are many things going wrong might not related to the release at all.)


I sometimes blame the compiler. Having said this, I do occasionally find bugs ib g++ and clang (most often, it does not behave like it should - copy g++ behavior).


And when they don't know what to do, they just prescribe steroids (which usually work).

I wonder what the developer equivalent of steroids would be.


Celiac here, “are you sure you didn’t eat any gluten?”

Now a part of every health care provider conversation.


Cancer survivor of 20 years here. You sir seem to understand exactly how things are. This is how it is, not bad, not good, just the nature of life i guess.


This is such a millennial take on the article, just needs a couple of suicidal jokes.

From the article: "Anxiety, depression and insomnia were most common among recovered COVID-19 patients in the study who developed mental health problems". It isn't about long COVID.

We're living in a uncertain, stressful time. Even people who haven't got COVID-19 have some degree of anxiety, of course getting it and not knowing if you will end up in a ventilator will have a bigger impact on your mental health.


Covid reporting is rife with statistical murder for the sake of hyperbole. If someone paid attention to the first week of a statistics course they'd learn about sample bias, false causality, cherry picking, Simpson's paradox, etc. Ahem, publication bias. Small wonder mental illness is up with a constant news cycle abusing fallacy to monopolize the public's attention and a status quo of blaming whomever strikes convenience for the disease. Let's just pull some data from this cohort of people who had Covid... and there we have it - Covid causes mental illness. In my state deaths from child abuse outstripped deaths from Covid until a recent outbreak in a couple of nursing homes. Guess we can conclude it causes deaths by child abuse. What's the tragedy reported in the newspapers? School closures forcing children from broken homes out of the only place people cared about their safety and success are now dying from abuse? The generation of poor and minority illiterate 3rd graders who will never catch up? Nope. People literally waiting to die in a nursing home are dying. A tragedy.

Small wonder mental illness is up indeed...


> People literally waiting to die in a nursing home are dying.

This is why I've said from the beginning that impact to life expectancy should be the metric which guides public policy. It accounts for lives of children being worth more than the lives of the elderly, because the elderly have less life to lose.



There is a line on “reading fine print of death benefits”. Kids get nothing if cause of death is suicide.


my life insurance pays out in case of suicide. The first year it doesn't pay for suicide, but I've had it 15 years.


Oh, and also even though we don't know why you're ill we also know for certain you'll also never get better, so here's some chemo drugs to take for the rest of your life.


Damn you really hit the nail on the head. "Invisibile illness" is how I've heard and referred to it.

Losing your mind now and then is absolutely okay.

--- I'm paraphrasing someone close to me --- God is giving me only what I can handle. Making me stronger in the process. Something even worse is coming down the line so get ready.


For a dank [religion] perspective.

This life is a test for what comes next.

  How will you be graded?  
Pretty sure a pile of gold doesn’t win points.


Oof. Been dealing with this for over 3 months now. Thank you for your post. I'm very sorry this has affected you. FWIW, it's somewhat comforting to me to know someone else understands what I am going through.


Dad? For real, this may be satire but it's 100% on message with how we treat those who are suffering from an invisible-externally disease. I wish this wasn't true. Heart goes out to all those suffering from an illness the world thinks they should "suck it up".


I'm definitely aware of some cognitive impairment since dealing with COVID, with me it seems to center on some fine motor skills leading to trouble with typing faultlessly, which I could do without a problem before and now I need to review what I type three times before I'm confident I didn't mess up.

Besides that, the tiredness is mostly gone now (it had better be after a good 8 months), though every now and then it can still recur and then I'm 'down' for a bit.

As for planning, I updated my will a week ago with all this at the back of my mind.

So while I recognize some of it I am happy that I apparently had a 'mild' case of this, and I feel very sorry for anybody that had it worse (and their families as well).


B vitamins are water soluble, so they are easy to become deficient in under any kind of duress. They are known to be important to neurological function.

A quick google of "b vitamin deficiency fine motor impairment" brings up B 12 repeatedly in references. Some B vitamin or other was one of the supplements medically recommended for children with autism that I gave to one of my sons when he was about eight years old and his handwriting issues improved. (I would have to try to dig up old notes, if they still exist, to say exactly which b vitamin.)

https://neuromuscular.wustl.edu/nother/vitamin.htm

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4476750/

https://www.symptoma.com/en/ddx/fine-motor-coordination-prob...

https://www.b12deficiency.info/blog/tag/poor-motor-skills/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_B12_deficiency

(I am not a doctor. This is not medical advice for anyone, much less for the OP. This is just a general observation for anyone interested.)

Edit:

Yep, my old notes still exist and B 12 is one of the three B vitamins listed (I never found DMG but gave the three B vitamins and magnesium to my son and after a few months saw improvement in social issues and handwriting). Excerpt from an old blog post:

"In 1996, I found some information on the Internet about a vitamin therapy that doctors sometimes prescribe for autistic spectrum children. Recently, I found the crumpled, pathetic slip of paper that I originally wrote my notes on. My original note has the following bullet points written willie-nillie, all over the place:

(DMG) Dimethylglycine

125mg tablets or capsules

take 2 - 3 weeks ("then add"),

vitamins B6, B5 then add B12/magnesium

Okay, I take that to mean that all the doses are supposed to be 125 milligrams. They did suggest you start things either one at a time or in pairs (and I take my notes to mean that the pairs are 'B6 with B5' and 'B12 with Magnesium') and observe if there were behavior changes with the addition of each thing. I think 2-3 weeks is how long you should have the child on each supplement before adding the next one."


Its interesting I have chronic kidney failure and I was asked to fill in a questionnaire about broadly mental issues it was a densely packed two page one.

The only one I had was feeling a bit upset about how it effected my skin some horrible looking scabs.

edited for spelling


> Staying positive when you have a chronic condition is incredibly difficult.

> You're not going to get through it without losing your mind now and then.

Why does this read like a Mountain Goats song?


More so Weird Al.

https://youtu.be/JE37e1eK2mY

Looks like Mountain Goats is a successor though.


This has been the past 5 years for me. It's amazing how accurate all of those are and how each point is a major problem on its own, let alone all of them!

-20 to my trust and confidence in the healthcare establishment


Yeah man, and not even in the US...


Roll me a constitution check.


You got a 12 https://rolladie.net/roll-a-d20-die

Your mystery illness has now been correctly diagnosed. It’s somewhat treatable. You are given access to a support group that knows your pain.


Seems to me contracting covid would also have a permanent HP deduction as well as constitution and willpower checks.


This is seriously sound real


This! This. This. Thank you so much. Some days you can feel so depressed about the recovery process. Hang in there. The cold weather made me relapse on postCovid and I feel like shit rn


is this sarcasm ?


Told in a sarcastic tone. But all are true.

Had some really bad years before figuring out what was wrong. Found support groups. All of those points are sadly the norm.


So what was wrong?


Factor 5 & Sjogrens as primary underlying conditions. Lots of secondary conditions.

Basically everything in body was inflamed or damaged and I was having weekly minor strokes.

Also extremely hypersensitive to most meds.


Good thing you were able to find what was causing it. Thanks for the reply! :)


Would have loved to read a proper post by you on that. Instead of this list you wrote out.


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