There is trillions of dollars in peoples hands that do nothing but buy luxury. What is this ancient desire to be rich? What amount will make you satisfied?
Financial independence (in the "work becomes a choice" sense -- not necessarily after idleness...) is a pretty attractive prospect. Beyond that point, money has rapidly-diminishing returns for me.
Yep, I'm currently going in the opposite direction. I'm now spending less on food and clothing than I've ever spent in my entire life. Rent is about the same as before, but I'm going to find ways of reducing that as well.
I used to be on the side of cheap clothes. It was a recent realization that clothes that cost more are more comfortable and unless you're buying too much it doesn't add a lot of expense.
Right. Spending money on things you'll use everyday, that keep you warm, that make you feel comfortable, physically and mentally?
As long as you're done with your growth spurt, and have your personal style without need to look trendy every season, I see no need to try to buy the cheapest clothes. Affordable, sure, but without sacrificing quality.
We are hypnotized by a few key beliefs which contradict our nature and reality:
- that we are separate/isolated from the rest of humanity
- that we need to be self-sufficient in order to survive
- that money has real value
- that without money we don’t have value
- that almost everything can measured in money
- that making more money is better
- that exploitation is ok and doesn’t influence us
I disagree that the trillions buy luxury. I’d argue that they expose addiction. We are burning our environment, and our personal lifetimes, faster and faster, to add numbers to wealthy peopke’s Accounts. It’s like redirecting to Dev/null.
It is a flow which creates enormous confusion, grasping, suffering, on all scales.
I visualize it as the grey tornado thing from stranger things, on planetary level, but especially intense in the US, a country with institutionalized government corruption and the most barbaric industrialized commercial healthcare in the world.
On the other hand, money can be used to support and express gratitude.
So it’s not really the money, but the hypnosis and the addiction.
1) Financial freedom and security. Aside from ensuring material needs this is important because it provides a good foundation for autonomy - an important part of self-fulfilment.
2) The means to make things happen. I don't want to own things or show off. I do want to facilitate things that I think will be beneficial to people I care about (e.g. help a friend or relative start a business, fund a non-profit, etc).
For a lot of people 'getting rich' means flash cars, big houses, and extravagance. I don't want any of that. I want the means to make my world (the one I interact with) a more pleasant place (for myself and others).
Indeed friend. I would love more people like this in mass. We need good friends and altruistic folk that think of others. I would love to be rich too and do the same as you say yet I highly dislike the entire flock of zebras who regulate who gets it and who doesnt. Hard work is important but Network is truly luck. I may have a library of ideas never implemented yet I am blocked by who I know and even if I go and find folk I am blocked by their perception of me. Its certainly interesting to see US as the land of opportunity.
Couldn't care less about fancy cars and houses. I want to push processor speeds forward by an order or two of magnitude, and to make that happen I need funds.
I have a desire to be free. I'm working towards never having to look at a fucking computer again. Hopefully by the time I'm 30, I'll have enough to do only need to work about three months year. The rest of the time I'm going to be surfing or rock climbing.
I too have the same desire - partly to work only on those things that interest me and partly to not have to deal with recruiters, office politics, mindless meetings etc etc. The amount of meaningless tasks we need to do in a job is insane
Undesirable from our perspective perhaps, but also not quite the same, or as bad as, what we might imagine.
See this website: dollarstreet.org.
Looking at the photos of some of the poorest places, I suppose they're undesirable from my perspective now, but if I moved there and lived there long enough and adapted, I could see myself finding contentment with less.
Yup, FREEDOM ! is my choice as well. By managing expenses I don't need millions in the bank.
BTW: how are you going to earn enough in 3 months / year if you are never going to look at a computer again? I can't think of any endeavour where some for of IT isn't in use.
I actually want more screen-time. But screen-time doing my own projects and tinkering rather than making $$ for mega-corp. Though making $$ for mega-corp is its own type of fun, so I can't totally complain about my full-time job.
I have a number, well 2. The first being a stepping stone, a marker to reach, the point where I can step back for a year, re-evaluate and consider if I want to shoot for the next target. Neither of the numbers are high, the first with some savy investments I could make last the rest of my life but I'm a relatively simple guy, I could live on ~12k a year easily. That includes rent, bills, food, clothes etc.
For me, it's not about stopping work. I generally love the things I do, the projects and concepts I develop in my spare time. For me, that's not working, it's a passion.
My second number is all about that, it's about being able to buy the ability to do what ever the fuck I want. Ideally I want a nice plot of land in a relatively remote area with some workshops and enough in the bank where I don't have to worry about bills and I can fund whatever project takes my interest.
Yep, I have the same goal. If/when I manage to get to $600k (~12k p/year assuming 2% yield) I'll take 3 months totally off work of any kind, just recuperating, then another 3 months to plan out the rest of my life.
London, UK. As conwy mentioned, it's not luxurious but it is doable. It helps I'm not really all that social, I don't like crowds, nor wasting money. Don't get me wrong I've done my fair share of both and I still go out once a month, but I have a limit on what I will spend because trust me it is far to easy to go into central London and end up spending a ridiculous amount of money.
Most of my socialising in the past 6 months has been staying in or going to a friends house. A couple times a week, we will cook each other dinner, maybe have a beer and generally just relax. It's basically a "habit" now and 1 that I really quite enjoy, all of our cooking levels have improved and we experiment a lot both with simple dishes and different styles. There's only been 1 occasion when we've all said no and thrown it out, admittedly my fault. I seriously misjudged some chillies, lol.
Also, as cowy said the bay area is 1 of the more expensive places to live. You make a choice to live there, I know it might not be that simple, but it is a choice none the less.
If travellings your thing, on a 12k/y budget you could do most of Europe, Asia and probably more. I did the calculations once when considering travelling for a couple years, of course your not going to be staying at 5* hotels in a gated community, fine dining, but that imho isn't travelling.
I live in London and do not understand how you could possibly manage on 12k a year unless you live with your parents or own your home outright and pay almost no bills and/or barely leave the house. You says it’s not luxury but I’d say it’s barely a step above poverty, how can you manage and what part of London do you live in? You must have to watch every penny and it must totally miserable or I just don’t understand anything at all. Can you describe your life in general? What sort of food do you eat? Do you have children?
Just because you don't understand how something is possible, doesn't mean it's impossible ;).
I'm single, I have no Children. My share of rent is 400/m, chuck on ~100 for utilities. I live with 3 others. It's north west London, around a half hour - 40 minute commute by train into central. I leave the house every day. I wouldn't agree that it's "barely a step above poverty" as I grew up in poverty and I've probably never been happier, or healthier.
As for watching every penny, yes and no. Usually I spend around 20-30/week on food. Which is more than a friend who is actively trying to watch his spending and minimise his outgoings. What I don't do, any more, is eat out or drink the likes of Costa. I stopped drinking costa once I tracked my spending on it for a couple weeks last year and saw in front of my eyes I was spending ~10/day on, quite frankly shitty coffee.
The eating out part started off last year purely for health reasons, I wanted to trim down some weight, cut down on my processed food and sugar intake. Subjective of course, but I think you would be amazed at just how bad things taste once you've eaten "clean" for a few weeks. For instance last week I popped in to Wenzels and grabbed a sausage roll, took 1 bite at it looked down and thought what the hell is that, that isn't meat. I chucked it in the bin outside the door and grabbed a packet of peanuts. I used to enjoy the occasional pasty but I think my taste has changed.
Food wise, I eat a nice bit of steak once or twice a week, chicken, fish, fresh vegetables and a range of nuts. I spend ~ 120/month on supplements and protein powder. It can be done, just shop smartly and take advantage of bulk buying in combination with offers and you automatically save a fortune. I don't do the whole cook 14 meals on a Sunday thing like another 1 of my cousins but that's because I've tried it and by Thursday I think the food loses its taste.
Just remember little things add up while your on the go, so those 2 coffees, a snack here, bit of lunch there and you've easily spent 15 in a day, multiply that over the course of a year and you've sunk ~4k on crap with little nutritional value, just to keep you going. A travel mug for your own coffee and making your own lunch will save you money in the long run and it doesn't have to be time intensive.
Your best tool for reducing your out goings is a bit of paper and a pin. Sit down for an hour and work out what your spending and where you can save money.
Peanuts are fucking awesome. 45p buys you 1200 calories worth, and they're packed with nutrition. I'll take a few handfuls of peanuts over an overpriced refined sugar-laden piece of crap any day.
Bay Area is one of the most expensive locations in the world. Been living in London and 12k USD (8.5k GBP) is roughly doable even here. Obviously not luxurious living, but doable.
Most people need something to do. Idleness just degrades existence and accelerates dis-ease. A simple mind is a key skill to survive our current situation filled with so much conflict.
If we believe history then I could agree yet my perspective is also ancient but it doesnt show man as an evolving creature who begins on Earth as a dumb hunter and gatherer moving along into the future developing an advanced brain. So our world force feeds us information based on fallacy of our ancestors to continue making the powerful and rich full in their poppycock. Make sense? Like another fellow said, we want to rule over people. So where we are today as we can analyze world situations doesnt seem we are very advanced.
The thing is that money stands for everything else.
What do you really want? Security? Money can get you that (within limits). Identity? Money can get you that, too (again, within limits). Experiences? Money can get you those (pretty much without limit). To not have to work? Money can get you that. So no matter what you want, it's pretty easy to convince yourself that you could have that, if you only had money.
> What amount will make you satisfied?
Legend says that, when asked how much it took to be satisfied, John D. Rockefeller said, "Just a little bit more". He was the first billionaire, and the richest person in his day. If it took more for him to be satisfied, well, you're never going to have enough money to get there.
Now, as I said, this story is legend (so far as I have been able to determine). Still, the problem is that real satisfaction doesn't come from money. The best you can hope for is to have enough to provide for your needs and at least some of your wants. That's as good as it gets, because beyond that, more money doesn't seem to increase happiness/satisfaction.
I don't know if the assumption that people buy only luxury with their excess money and moreover that the spending of excess money is bad.
If you had millionaires and billionaires who lived frugally it would mean no demand for goods and services you and I and most people contribute to. That they can invest in ideas means other people get to work pursuing those ideas.
If we didn't seek to be rich (or even wealthy)and we were all just getting by with "living wages", in the first place, we would still be in a place where there was low demand for things and there would be little spare money to do non-essential things. It'd like living in 1980s India or China or Indonesia.
On the other hand, frivolous consumption is a problem (disposable thises (these?) and disposable thats (those?) contribute to environmental damage.
That said, the best thing we could do is slow pop growth to replacement levels rather than growth. That means educating poor people everywhere and getting them on contraceptives.
It is interesting because of the amount of money you need for "traditional retirement" in the US.
If I want to live how I live now, I'll probably need to put about $3k aside into retirement each month to retire when I'm around 65!
I find this insane because I'm quite young. The $3k/mo is probably a good number to split between my IRA and brokerage account - but I don't consider my brokerage account to be strictly retirement.
More of "general investing" that I can use, if I need to or decide to, invest in something else in the future... not sure what, but I do not consider it like the IRA in the sense that I will absolutely never touch it (outside rebalancing as I get older).
Anyway... I know of quite a few people who live on 20-30k/yr (with a GOOD backup for emergencies!) sailing the world. Does that not sound fun?!
Money plays the part in modern life that food used to play on the plains of Africa. You need it to survive and in the past food could not be kept for long. You had to continually be on the lookout for more, it was fundamental to survival.
It was easy enough for people to substitute money for food as the critical thing we need to survive. It's not as easy to give up the instinct of getting more of it everyday.
And why should it be easy? This behaviour meant life or death for millions of generations.
The amount necessary to employ and enable every willing capable mind on the planet in the mission of ending aging (and, subsequently, mortality). Silly to most, I'm sure.
