I moved from Hamburg, Germany to Tokyo in October of last year. I would agree with their observation and have a few points to add that I found remarkable (some of them are probably a little specific to Tokyo):
- In larger cities there are Konbinis _everywhere_. As in: You can barely walk a block without encountering one in the more busy areas. Sometimes there are three within a 30m Radius.
- Most fruits (except bananas or Kaki when in season) are pretty expensive.
- Package sizes in supermarkets are often smaller that in europe, so if you are used to buying 1 or 2kg bags of frozen veggies you'll have to go to Costco.
- People make due with much less space here than in europe. Tiny apartments everywhere.
- Most single detached family homes in residential areas of Tokyo usually have no garden.
- Even though a lot of places look like they have not changed since the 80s, they are suprisingly well maintained and clean.
- There are basically no public trashbins except at some train stations or in konbinis (which often makes me feel like I need to buy something else to justify throwing stuff away).
- Lots of people wear masks casually (not judging whether thats good or bad)
- Food is not only cheap but usually tastes amazing. I have not even once gone anywhere (from cheap chain to upscale sushi place) an was disappointed.
- You do get 日本語上手 (Nihongo Jouzu = your japanese is good) a lot even if you just say Hello in japanese.
- Trains here are usually really punctual, go frequently and during rush hour are unbearably crowded. It's kind of a miracle that people don't start fighting constantly and everyone is just somehow accepting the fact that they are forcefully pushed around on the train.
- The japanese people I met are are almost all incredibly nice, once you break the ice. They are so mindful of others feelings and needs and really good at reading people.
While that may be the trigger, the reason is that people don't expect trash cans everywhere thus are prepared to take their trash back home and in the orderly clean culture that works.
The end result is really phenomenal and the behavior change sometimes funny. I went to a EU city immediately after visiting Tokyo for the first time and after I bought some canned drink i realized that I walked with the can in my pocket for like 2km totally ignoring all of the trashcans on the way.
It's more of a cost reduction move. As an example Paris kept trash bins after the terrorist attacks, albeit they adapted them to the situation (either they're bomb resistant or made light and transparent)
Tokyo or London could do the same, if they cared enough.
> - Lots of people wear masks casually (not judging whether that's good or bad)
It's worth mentioning that masks were in relatively common usage in Japan long before the COVID pandemic. (I have no anecdata whether usage was increased since.)
Years ago I flew on (I think) JAL and was amused to receive a face-mask in the small free package of in-flight goodies provided to each person.
> therefore, you will probably be treated as one, even if aren’t
Myself and a couple friends visited Japan for a couple weeks in 2008. On a trip to Osaka, one of my friends was approached by a gaggle of school girls. It was “speak to a foreigner day” at their school, and apparently of our group, the lone female seemed the most approachable. They asked her a series of questions about where she was from and her life in very basic English and took furious notes.
I can’t imagine telling a class in even the safest parts of the United States “Go wander the streets and interview a stranger you suspect to be foreign”, for a number of reasons.
The other thing I want to note is just that you get a lot of leeway as a foreigner in Japan. We’d gotten on a train unknowingly that our JR pass didn’t cover, but figured it out on the train. Well right as we get off, the ticket inspector is there inspecting tickets. We feign ignorance and show him our JR passes, he patiently writes something like ¥500 on a piece of paper and shows us, we pay it. No anger is expressed, just more of a “silly foreigners” vibe.
> We feign ignorance and show him our JR passes, he patiently writes something like ¥500 on a piece of paper and shows us, we pay it. No anger is expressed, just more of a “silly foreigners” vibe.
That was my experience traveling around Japan.
There's an interesting caveat to it. Back when I studied Japanese, I had a Japanese teacher. But she never lived in Japan - she was born of Japanese parents living abroad.
Anyway, she used to tell me that for her, visiting Japan was a lot less welcoming, because they cut no slack to her. She looks Japanese, sounds Japanese, so everyone expected her to be very mindful of all social norms, and would be harsh to her whenever she made a faux-pas.
I had that exact same conversation with a Japanese American who was raised in the Bay Area but moved to Tokyo in his 30s. “You get the gaijin pass,” he told me, “I don’t.”
It sounds like they would, as they have about the same level of familiarity with local norms as an immigrant or a tourist would be aren't treated with the same leeway.
I have a couple of Japanese friends who live in the US but goes back to Japan regularly (1-2 times a year).
They love Japan and have kept their Japanese citizenship, but all the rules and expectations were overbearing, so for them there are a lot of pros and cons to the two countries. And they call out that for foreigners, they get to see many of the pros but fewer of the cons.
>I can’t imagine telling a class in even the safest parts of the United States “Go wander the streets and interview a stranger you suspect to be foreign”
In the US of course it isn't even just the overblown "stranger danger" hysteria of school children speaking to people they don't know but identifying "foreigners" due to the greater ethnic diversity in the US. And people get (justifiably) offended when asked "where are you from?" especially if they were born here and just happen to be of non-European descent.
That is pretty messed up. There can be gazillion good reasons for somebody to stick out, or somebody else to just asking. People getting easily offended and taking such benign question very personally have usually some deeper underlying untackled issues in their lives.
It never even occurred to me people might be offended by that. I love stories of different places and foods, and I'm fascinated by all the permutations of accents that occur. I'm simultaneously mildly angered by people being offended by such a thing, and that others trained them to be that way.
I get asked where I'm from all the time even though I'm very obviously from around. I get what you mean but differentiating curiosity from xenophonia is generally pretty easy, and as such I see no reason why we should avoid the question entirely. Intention and context counts, pretending that it is always an offense is absolutist and reductionist.
I think "offended" is a bit much in many occasions, but it's certainly a type of racial profiling. It simply doesn't happen in places where your class or group of friends or coworkers are not all white, because you know that not all people look the same. Whereas if you live in an area with a very homogenous looking population everyone who looks different probably is a tourist.
It's the assumption that they probably aren't "American" because they don't look like their ancestors came here on the Mayflower that many find offensive.
I think you’re right that people sometimes take it that way, but I’ve always thought it a rather uncharitable assumption. The answer could be a different place in the US. It doesn’t seem to imply anything about whether you’re American or not?
I’m in California and it’s somewhat unusual for someone to be native Californian.
I visited Florida once and was "mistaken" for a local because... I look South American, so the people there immediately assumed I would understand... Spanish :D and everyone seems to speak Spanish over there.
I wasn't offended at all, of course, but funny how context changes everything... I was actually worried they'd be "disappointed" at me for not speaking their native language.
> I visited Florida once and was "mistaken" for a local ... people there immediately assumed I would understand... Spanish
That used to happen to me in Germany, even though my German is limited to "noch ein Bier, bitte." Whereas in France (where I lived as a kid and used to have native fluency), people would immediately switch to English. I asked one Frenchman, "why?" The answer was, "You sound French but you look Australian or maybe South African." "No, I'm American." "That can't be; Americans don't speak French like that."
A lot has changed. Foreigners no longer have this "superiority".
> telling a class in even the safest parts of the United States
It is just histeria, look at recent trend of "men vs bear in forest" . Many parts of US are totally safe, the worst part are dogs, car accidents and voluntary drug ingestion!
The key addendum I would add to this post is the Japan you see when you are in public is not the Japan behind closed doors. Japan has many things going for it, yet it can be a very lonely place to exist. It is just a place where it is easier to be lonely due to a high number of distractions. Social care and a lack of significant mental health support creates a large number of society excluded citizens.
As someone who moved to Japan over 8 years ago, the observations make sense!
Also, if you're considering "living" in Japan (which is a totally different beast from visiting as a tourist), here's a hypothetical scenario. See how you feel the first time you read it.
You, alongwith a group of friends/group tour members are walking down the street towards the station to go to your next (sightseeing) destination in Tokyo. Assume none of your friends/group tour members are ill-meaning (as in, they don't behave like bad tourists, littering the streets, being loud because they want to etc.).
Now, assume that the group you are with is being louder than other locals around you, possibly because they are in good spirits after a good meal or sightseeing experience. What is your way of thinking:
a) Do you realize that your group is being louder than other locals around you?
b) If you realize so, do you still not feel anything and keep walking with the group?
c) Or do you feel uncomfortable that your group is being louder than others around you, and want to distance yourself away from your group?
If you're more inclined towards c), then your way of thinking is closer to the Japanese people.
Source: had the same experience when I visited Japan over 10 years ago for the first time, and I was so uncomfortable it felt like torture just walking with the same group.
Japan, for better or worse, is "unique" in many ways even today, including how people think and behave.
It's not for everyone, but if you think the article's observations and the scenario above are something you like and want to be a part of, you'll likely not have too much of a hard time adapting to life here.
Also, if time and energy permits, please, learn the language. It'll expand your world so much here.
>>Also, if time and energy permits, please, learn the language.
My opinion: Even taking ten hours to learn a few polite phrases makes a Japanese trip infinitely better. It signifies to Japanese people that you're trying to understand them and they very much love it.
I was in Tokyo on a short business trip once. I had a interpreter and back to back meetings with Japanese businesses for a few days. At one stage I realised that people are reacting slightly to what I am saying before the content was translated. I asked the interpreter about it and she said that they all had English as a school subject and that most Japanese people under 50 can understand English, and are too self-aware about their accent to even try to converse. I've never been able to verify this and would love a more informed opinion.
(Don't have any firsthand experience but) I've always assumed their relationship with English is similar to most Americans' relationship with Spanish. They are both taught in "textbook" form as part of the curriculum, and as a result most probably could get by on "input" (reading or slow verbal comprehension) but there is no need to be good at "output".
I am a naturalized US citizen and I don’t have Japanese family or something like that.
So from that pov, what was it like? How did you do it?
I went to Japan and it was honestly the best place I’ve been. As a brown guy I felt so welcomed and people were so kind to me. Not to mention it’s so clean and orderly.
Fwiw I’m a software engineer with a decade of experience.
Not American myself but I've met a whole range of Americans while living in Japan. Their experience varies, obviously, but I've noticed some pattern.
I've met from the "top" of US hierarchy; white Harvard graduate (parents both from Harvard) who get to live very nice life with wide availability of choices, to the "lows", Latino high-school dropout from the ghetto. Those two both love living here, for different reasons, while a lot of people coming here working as English teachers just loath the place and leave after 3-4 years.
All in all I think (like most places) it really depends on 3 things, what job(income) you can get, what social circle you'll find, and what expectations you have in the place (and your life).
The most content ones I've met is well paid engineers married with kids. Having kids just makes you part of the community so much easier. Also being an engineer from US probably means you're not that annoyed by work culture (compared to say Europe). The safety is ofc incomparably better and most people get used to being perpetually treated as "the foreigner"; people that can't get over the latter, usually sooner or later, will start to resent the place.
Since the majority of Americans coming to Japan to live, is white college graduate who end up as English teacher (horrible job with bad pay), they start to loathe the place after the honeymoon phase. Online forum is filled with these types so staying away from those is also crucial ( I'm looking at r/japanlife)
Sad to hear that /r/japanlife has gone down the drain. I created it nearly 15 years ago, but stepped down as a moderator in 2015 when I left Japan and have not visited it since. It was supposed to be (was?) a place where expats could solve everyday issues without constantly being bombarded with questions related to pop culture or tourism ("Help! How do I deal with my washing machine?!").
Just my 2 cent, but the Japanese work culture can be quite stressful, in the way it's demanding and hierarchical. As a tech worker you have more leverage when choosing jobs. Also tech is a bit more modern / younger so there's more willingness to circumvent that hierarchy and cultural work pressure (drinking out, over-politeness etc).
But still, the work is a bit more hectic and you're expected to prioritize work when required (deadlines etc). Also not as much paid leave. Which is not too different from the what's plausible in US, but in Europe this attitude is often strongly frowned upon, even in tech, so it might be an absolute deal breaker
I know a few people who went to live in Japan. Some came back, others didn't.
I can't help about the paperwork, but the general sentiment is that the "I felt so welcomed and people were so kind to me" part is only on the surface. Tourists are very welcome in tourist places, not so much elsewhere, and don't mistake politeness for kindness. One common theme when at work is that as a "gaijin", if something goes wrong, it is always your fault, even if you speak Japanese perfectly (a must), and even if you have citizenship (note that Japan doesn't allow multiple citizenship).
Racism (xenophobia, actually) is very present, but in a more insidious manner than in the west. It doesn't mean Japan is a bad place to live in, cleanliness and order are real things, and the low crime rate is very appreciable. Politeness is nice too, but it goes together with hypocrisy, so if you value things like consideration, harmony, and agreement, Japan may be for you, but if instead, you value honesty, directness and to confront ideas, maybe not so much.
Don't read too much into that, tons of places are quietly xenophobic while publicly they project a different image. There is huge difference big cities vs rural areas, don't expect simpler folks living few decades in the past to be very welcoming towards unknown.
Its slowly fading away from the face of the earth, but don't let some virtual bubbles like HN or physical ones like say SF or NY or western European big cities make the impression that this is how everybody there thinks.
People generally don't change their set-in-stone core opinions, critical thinking and self-reassessment is a privilege of relatively few, but they for sure learned to keep it to themselves these times.
I grew up in California and moved to Japan forty-one years ago, at the age of twenty-six. I have lived here ever since.
As others in this thread have noted, everyone is different. In my case, what has kept me here is having learned the language well after I arrived, entering first one career (translation) and then, twenty years later, another (in academia) for which my language ability and my understanding of the culture were essential, having and raising a family here, continuing to find the country and culture interesting, and finding a comfortable living situation. Now Japan feels like home and I can’t imagine leaving.
However, I have known a lot of people who started out similar to me but who ended up leaving after a while. I don’t want to generalize about them, either, but there are some characteristics I have noticed among Americans who didn’t stay: They didn’t learn the language well, or they couldn’t find jobs that suited them, or they were annoyed at always being treated like a foreigner (more common in the countryside than in the cities), or they had aging parents back home, or they just felt homesick.
I'm an American citizen with Japanese permanent residency. Weirdly enough I moved here via a Software Engineer job posting I saw in an HN "whos hiring". This was about 5 years ago, right before covid hit. Clearly I've taken a liking to it, as I'm still here despite the potential to make way more money by being back home.
For me, I was interested in learning the language and experiencing a new culture, and so it was a blast. If you're not interested in those things, you will likely not last more than a few years (though I do know a few foreigners here who've been here 10+ years without learning a lick of Japanese).
The company I joined helped a lot with getting a bank account and phone number and such. Those tasks can be hard without help, although it's practically a meme at this point so I think it's easier now, as companies try to fill that gap. Another meme is that it's hard to find a place to rent as a foreigner. This might be somewhat true, but it's never happened to me and so I think it's a bit outdated.
Overall it's very comfortable. Sometimes too much so I think - nobody takes risks and so nothing really changes. I do like being able to go almost anywhere without a car.
As long as you first find a stable and good enough job it's probably fine and not _that_ hard.
There will be a ton of papers to deal with, including some banks that apparently aren't open to US citizens (probably because of taxation ?), but I don't think it's much more than for most countries on the globe.
Speaking/Writing will also be a big part of it, but it's not insurmountable. You'll survive without it for a while (you've found a company willing to hire you anyway), and probably spend a few years learning before being fully proficient (reading contracts etc.)
PS: I'm not american, so there's a bunch of details I might be missing but I haven't heard of specific troubles on that front.
I think patio11 has some writing on the subject. I believe that (like anywhere) there are barriers to immigration and things that aren't designed for or simply closed to foreigners, so you might need some local support to break the bank account / residential address / employer requirements cycle.
when entering a “clean space”, like a home or even a fitting room,
take off your shoes
I remember playing a Yakuza game where you could walk the protagonist through a house with a tatami floor without taking off your shows and I figured it was alright because he was a badass.
This is norm in much of Europe (as in east, west, north and FWIW some south too), middle east and north Africa. Shoes are always dirty, even on non-rainy day. Sure, you can have rather mess at your home (absolutely unavoidable with smaller kids) but you can do some basic effort to tackle it.
Also, massively unhygienic for various fungus that loves damp warm places on your toe nails or between toes.
I think this is pretty true for every really big city I've been to in Europe - such that I wonder if it's a city size thing rather than a location.
Trying to talk to random people in London you get weird looks. A small town further out in the country, hope you're not in a rush as they'll talk your ear off.
I don’t think it needs "really" before "big", it’s certainly not normal in the big city I live in now (pop 200k) nor the medium big city I lived in before (pop 90k). I can believe it’s like that for small villages, idk, maybe pop 1k.
I generally said hi to people in a ~50k pop city, and would regularly recognize people by face even if I'd never spoken to them before. Certainly in the ~1.5k village I grew up in you'd know most people, again if not their names, and would always say hi.
But in that city there were still multiple "centers" - the local pub, couple of shops and whatever - Being the European style town that was actually like 15 different villages that slowly merged. Perhaps because of this it really acted as multiple smaller towns in many ways.
There's probably quite a big variation based on local culture, density and other things, but I'm pretty sure it's a trend by size.
How much attention one gets depends on various factors. I am a very tall white guy with curly hair that forms an afro. In Tokyo I get stares from nearly everyone along the whole block where I happen to be. Glad this doesn't happen to everyone, but please don't pretend this doesn't happen.
A very tall Japanese guy with curly hair that forms an afro would also get stares.
As someone who visited Japan for the first time 23 years ago, and has been living there (here?) for more than 10 years, there is much less staring now than there used to be, probably because of numbers. There are a lot more foreigners around now.
- In larger cities there are Konbinis _everywhere_. As in: You can barely walk a block without encountering one in the more busy areas. Sometimes there are three within a 30m Radius.
- Most fruits (except bananas or Kaki when in season) are pretty expensive.
- Package sizes in supermarkets are often smaller that in europe, so if you are used to buying 1 or 2kg bags of frozen veggies you'll have to go to Costco.
- People make due with much less space here than in europe. Tiny apartments everywhere.
- Most single detached family homes in residential areas of Tokyo usually have no garden.
- Even though a lot of places look like they have not changed since the 80s, they are suprisingly well maintained and clean.
- There are basically no public trashbins except at some train stations or in konbinis (which often makes me feel like I need to buy something else to justify throwing stuff away).
- Lots of people wear masks casually (not judging whether thats good or bad)
- Food is not only cheap but usually tastes amazing. I have not even once gone anywhere (from cheap chain to upscale sushi place) an was disappointed.
- You do get 日本語上手 (Nihongo Jouzu = your japanese is good) a lot even if you just say Hello in japanese.
- Trains here are usually really punctual, go frequently and during rush hour are unbearably crowded. It's kind of a miracle that people don't start fighting constantly and everyone is just somehow accepting the fact that they are forcefully pushed around on the train.
- The japanese people I met are are almost all incredibly nice, once you break the ice. They are so mindful of others feelings and needs and really good at reading people.