There is an elderly gentleman (71) here in Miami Beach that has been running the same 8 mile run for 49 years now, every single day[0]. I think he's missed a few days over that span. It's both incredible and awe inspiring (and maybe sad depending on how you view it) to see folks repeating the same physical feat every day for their entire lives. A college friend of mine wrote a book about him if you're curious[1].
I was running up Twin Peaks in SF today when a woman in a car called out to me and asked me a question about the entrance to the park. I stepped into the road to answer her, and didn't pay attention. A jeep swerved around me (fairly close) while honking.
It was a reminder that, if you want to run for a long time and you're growing older, you've really got to think hard about safe routes & how to stick to them.
For example, for this guy, if you're going to run 8 miles for 50 years, then safety would be the top concern - especially in your 70's. You can't do much better than a beach route. Soft surface, no cars, no way to screw up and fall and easily injure yourself: that scores like a 10 out of 10 for a running route. And 50 years of daily running can add up to a lot of risk. For example, 1 close call with a car every 1,000 runs = 18 close calls over 50 years.
I'd probably make the same choice in his position.
Wow, I went to UVA in the early 2000s I vaguely recall seeing him run once or twice. Had no idea he was a former student who never left. Just thought it was a quirky townie who was another interesting character of cville.
It goes without saying that an easy way to reduce risk is to dress like you’re going to a disco party during the day and cover yourself with lights at night.
I've always wondered that if you play the long game, what kinds of shoes should you wear? I read people in countries that go barefoot don't have foot problems.
Should you wear heavily padded shoes or run in low-heel or minimalist shoes?
Go to a good shoe store that caters to runners, and try on a bunch of different pairs of shoes to find something that will fit your needs and physiology.
And then throw them away after 500 miles and get a new pair.
I have a suspicion that a big part of the reason that people are feeling better running in Hokas is that they waited too long to replace their last pair of shoes, and literally anything would have been an improvement by the time they switched.
And I say this as someone who recently switched to Hokas. They’re fine.
I did that and I even paid extra for the "running assessment" that they were offering to those interested in running the Berlin marathon. It took me ca. 4 years to recover from the damage those shoes did to my knees.
I would say "go to a doctor", but the first one I visited just googled "running shoes" on his computer and told me to get something like that. At least the second one actually knew what he was doing.
My point being: I would suggest everyone to try really hard to get a good recommendation instead of trusting someone blindly.
The guy at the store filmed my running, pointed out that (according to him) my feet bend inwards when running and recommended some Adidas shoes that (again, according to him) would "fix" the bending and make it fully vertical. I got instead terrible knee pain, to the point of barely being able to go up the stairs.
The second doctor told me to rip the insoles and replace them with some orthopedic, custom-made ones (my insurance covers a pair or two a year) and also prescribed me some knee pads with metal rods on the sides that I must wear whenever I run. He also sent me to physiotherapy for a month where I learned exercises to strengthen the knee and core muscles. Whenever my knees start to hurt (typically after not exercising for a while) these exercises make it go away.
Look up the nordic, and reverse nordic curls, and tibialis raises and TKE exercises. There is a youtuber who has popularized them (kneesovertoesguy). I've found they help me immensely when it comes to stiffness/soreness in my knee (had knee surgery a year ago). If I was better about it I would be more regular about doing these exercises regularly, but alas I am too lazy. (I also have flat foot issue and found "racing flats" with not too thick soles to be my ideal, even running marathons).
I love my Hokas, they have different models which cater to differently-shaped and differently used feet. Some people love minimalism, but if I push hard enough (which isn't hard at all), on hard surfaces and without much padding, I develop pain which I would categorize as tendon being stretched too much. I can get it also from just walking on tarmac sidewalks in hard shoes for long enough.
Doesn't happen in Hokas, at all. They basically allow me to run as much as I can, or have multiple-hour walks almost every evening. Another good ones, for me just for walking, are La Sportiva Raptor - seemingly one of few manufacturers that caters to sporty people with wide feet.
Technique will matter more. The book Chi Running is a great start. It's an unfortunate title but the content is great. I recommended it to a friend years ago that had broken his back and was unable to complete the running part to enter the police academy. I thought he was going to burst into tears when he thanked me after being able to complete a lap on the local track.
Listen to your body. Over 10 years ago I switched to being barefoot, or minimalist shoes depending on the situation. I no longer get cortisone shots in my knees and I no longer have any back pain. It just works for me.
Take the transition very slow, or you will possibly injure yourself and then say "barefoot running/walking wrecked my feet/knees...".
Going barefoot is great for everyday tasks. I'm barefoot now. But running on modern surfaces is not an everyday task - even if you do it every day. Wear quality shoes while running or jumping.
You should wear shoes to prevent getting a nail or glass shard or syringe sticking to the bottom of your foot. I at least would prefer long term foot problems to short term cuts or infections.
> Just curious, what point of view makes daily running seem sad?
If I was to guess, it's similar to the tone of the article. You can't beat time.
Eventually they'll be forced to stop and there's a particular sadness in watching those who used to be able to do great feats no longer do them.
For me, it's the same sadness as watching a sharp mind like my grandfather's succumb to alzheimer's. It's not quick, and it's not painless for everyone involved. For me, it was years watching him forget me, his daughter (my mother), and eventually language all together.
Better to have loved and lost than never have loved at all?
> Better to have loved and lost than never have loved at all?
Absolutely, otherwise what's the point of living if not experiencing life in its more intensive (more rewarding but also more hurting) aspects?
Similar to ie mountaineers and various other extreme sports folks, they all love the life more than average Joe since they experienced how much it can give if you push it further. Despite what some think they are not suicidal, in contrary, they keep doing what they love despite the increased risk of losing it all prematurely. No adventurer regrets doing adventures when looking back.
So its a combo of them wrapping their identity into this one thing (running here), eventually not being able to keep doing it, but also there is an aspect that I am purely assuming which is they could have done more variety of stuff with their life. This last point being super biased as its based in my own desires, and who knows, maybe they LOVE this one thing and that's all they want for fulfillment.
But to your point, i also love hearing stories of old people defying our expectations of what an old person should be able to do.
I agree, but I can also view such strident commitment to a fixed set of ideas to be pretty unimaginative, or lacking in categorical ambition, lacking in exploration perhaps depending on the person. My father for example has not been on a plane in 34 years. Not for any legitimate practical reason, though he'd come up with something if prompted; almost like he's archived his exposure to the world in 1989. He has no idea what it's like to even book a flight, how much it really costs, how security procedures have changed over time, and has no ambition to ever leave the continent.
Being far too broad and shallow in life is just as bad, if not worse.
In the worst case, the depth-first life leaves a person mostly useless except for at least one deep skill, but the breadth-first life in the worst case can leave a person completely useless since no skills have been developed past an arbitrarily superficial level.
These are, of course the extreme ends where life has been well wasted. :)
True, but then you have to evaluate the value of having a deep skill versus a wide range of xp. Usually, it's a feat in itself b/c starting things often require money, which is difficult to obtain with no deep skills (unless given/inherited).
I'm more of the opinion that no deep skills is no skills at all. Similarly, a wide range of experiences from a blank slate without the necessary effort to connect the dots might as well be no experience at all.
Often an inheritance comes with an upbringing full of entirely different experiences, culture, and values from those who do not inherit much if anything. Deep knowledge and skills are naturally imbued into the next generation without much deliberate effort despite the fact that someone did put in much deliberate effort to manifest that situation. Every lineage begins with someone who had to learn it all the hard way.
I suppose that's a deeper question of why do anything different at all if your current set of things results in your happiness?
Aside from practical limitations, health, economic prosperity, I'm of the opinion that there's value in staying compelling by exploring your curiosities instead of dismissing them in favour of protecting your current happiness. In order to have resilient connections with others, you need to find ways to stay attractive over time, and it's a consequence of doing new things from time to time, travel maybe being one of them.
You can go wide and shallow or narrow and deep. There's no enough time in the world to go wide and deep on all topics. To each it's own, but personally I prefer to go explore fewer topics, but in great depth. I travel very rarely, but when I do, I try to make it at least weeks if not months. When I take up a hobby, I stick to it for years.
> He has no idea what it's like to even book a flight, how much it really costs, how security procedures have changed over time
TBH I don't think that's something to miss. I'd be pretty happy to not know that either. Unless you're writing a book about air travel security, that's probably not worth any attention.
> TBH I don't think that's something to miss. I'd be pretty happy to not know that either. Unless you're writing a book about air travel security, that's probably not worth any attention
It's more of a personal revulsion I have against having pride in being ignorant, and then relying on ancient knowledge only to inform current and future decisions. "Flying is a hassle and expensive" just isn't true in many but not all cases. It's one thing to have a preference, it's another to have prejudice, and I think ignorance turns into prejudice if you go long enough without re-evaluating the criteria you once used.
That's an interesting way to put it. I certainly wouldn't say I have much ambition to leave the continent either. If the time and money come up, there's places I'd like to go, and maybe I will some day. It's not a big life goal I'm working towards though.
Cross-continental travel can be tricky to convince yourself of the value, if you've never really been driven toward it, but there's a certain type of person who will imagine a burden before even exploring the real numbers, and dismiss forever as too expensive without an idea of what it costs; in the case of my dad, not ever even acquiring a cursory sense of the cost
I know the cost is going to be a couple thousand dollars. It's something that I'd be reasonably able to afford in the next few years if I made it a goal. It's value, however, is less to me than a lot of other things that would cost the same amount. I could upgrade a lot of my hobby equipment for the price of a trip to Europe. That would be an investment that gives back every day for years. I'd like to experience other cultures, but the amount of immersion I'd get for that price is nothing compared to the enjoyment I could get from better landscaping in my little yard, a project horse to spend the next 15 years bonding with and enjoying, or some better power tools to keep the house up with. I'm not 20 any more. I'm married. I certainly can't just leave the country for 6 months and backpack and to keep me and my husband in reasonable accommodations for that length of time is well beyond our resources and the amount of time off I can finagle at the job I love.
With a bit of effort we could afford say, 5k, to go off for a couple weeks and do the tourist things in basically any region that piques our interest. That same amount of money could provide both of us a lot more growth and enjoyment without leaving the US.
For some people, the concept of just existing without experiencing something grand or new, is a waste of life. Imagine, doing the same thing every day until you die. For some people it is peaceful and wonderful. The joy of existing. For others it is a horror. Stagnation and rot.
I used to be the former, with a great fear of missing out on all life has to offer. Lately though I'm the latter, realizing the immense joy in existing.
I don't know if it's necessarily the activity as much as the adherence to the same route that feels sad. At the same time, it's not that I feel sad for the guy, but I think it would drive me nuts if I did that. Reading about Emmanuel Kant's daily walking routine makes me feel a little bit of despair in my soul, even though I understand he probably had a much deeper internal experience going on than I can relate to.
I did the same 1.5 mile trail (Council Crest in Portland, OR w/ 750’ of elevation gain) 110 times in 2019 (part of a 10 mile round trip route from my apartment). I learned every step of the trail and named the more notable trees. I could do the whole trail in my mind and feel like I was there. I did it in 100 degree summer weather, many times in pouring rain, and even ice and snow.
I felt like it was a privilege to get to know something that deeply.
But I’m also somebody who doesn’t ever plan to leave the US or even get on a plane again because there’s so much worth seeing right outside my front door!
Thanks for sharing that. I liked your note on doing the trail in your mind because it reminds me of when I stumble through a piano piece that I learned decades ago as a kid. It somehow brings me back in time, so that I feel like I could guess what was cooking for dinner or what was stressing me out at school/home.
Yup there's a hill nearby that I've climbed about 100 times on my bike over the past couple years. I always cherish my time that I spend there - the scenery is constantly changing throughout the season, and I frequently run into acquaintances along the way.
Every day might get a little monotonous, but a couple times a week is doable (and enjoyable) for sure!
I pass a sightseeing spot on my usual run. It's on a hill, overseeing a lake bellow as well as forest surrounding the lake. I take the same picture whenever I got phone on me. Looking back at the pictures, there're no 2 identical pictures. Lush greenery, snow, ice on a lake, brownness of the fall.... Maybe a tree has fallen or a younger tree got big enough to cover older ones since the year before.
There're tons and tons of details that are hard to notice if you ain't coming back for a hundredth time.
I’ve been walking a similar route through the nearby forest for the last 2-3 years. It really isn’t the same thing on a day to day basis. The weather changes, the plants change. In the winter, you can see quite far into the woods. In the summer, you see only green, but lots of different plants and insects. Sometimes, there’s deer, the bird sounds change with the season. Lots of woodpeckers in the winter and spring.
It’s not the only route I walk, but I was surprised myself that I almost never found it boring.
Some people just love routine. Just recently I have listened interview with local Olympic swimmer Giedrius Titenis (not in English, so won't share). He mentioned that he liked to swim in a pool the same n*100 meter distances multiple times each day. Repeat and repeat and repeat. This allows person to compare current result with previous. Measure time and think "oh, I made in xy seconds but still had some power left, I can do better next time".
Thanks for sharing your viewpoint. I find repitition of the same routine mind-numbing. Walking to the office where there is only one valid route, it destroys me. I think others find such things meditative.
Meta: I don't get how people claim to be curious about other's perspectives, then when someone shares a perspective they downvote it because it's not the same as their own.
Directly in the beginning, without even scrolling, it says:
> Raven has chronic back pain, spinal stenosis and vertigo. His feet hurt so much — from bone spurs and calluses — that he runs with his New Balance sneakers untied.
"Running" for 3 hours a day likely contributes to all that. Mixing it up would be an idea. Biking, swimming, kayaking, rowing, tennis, badminton, taking walks, there is so much you can do.
Being stubborn is not a healthy character trait, even though sometimes people hail it as "inspiring". What this guy inspires me to be is to ensure I never turn into him.
Ah I see, maybe I interpret it differently because I don’t think all compulsions are bad. Compulsions only become addictions when they seriously negatively affect your life.
This was in response of the parent comment. For some people running is closer to meditation than to a physical activity looking for performance in terms of speed and distance.
Also, there is a mention here about the book "What I Talk about When I Talk about Running".
This is really how old school martial artists in traditional forms like Karate are. They practice the same things every day. They live to an old age and even then are quite nimble and strong. The OkinawanSpirit youtube channel has interviews with several of these masters and it's fascinating to watch https://www.youtube.com/@OkinawanSpirit/videos
It's incredible, no question about it. But it's also incredibly sad. I mean, you have one life. One. And you spend 2-3 hours every day on the very same f'ing route? Life has so much more to offer.
Besides, 3 hours for 8 miles, that's not running, it's slowish walking. Not judging here, I'm not 70 yet, but I'm wondering how much of his health problems are actually causally related to this stubbornness. In a bad way.
That's quite different. It's not the same gym for 50 years, what they do in the gym changes over time etc. I'm personally in the gym 2-3 times a week. Very different from running the same route for 2-3 hours every day for 50 years.
We have a similar person in Lyon. Everybody cheer him on when he passes them by. He always wear a red pair of shorts. No idea if he’s still doing it though…
I'm not quite sure why, but reading this post gave me more anxiety than anything else over the last few weeks. Maybe the awareness of the finite nature of life.
I thought so too - sand can be uneven and shifting, an easy way to damage an ankle if you aren't paying attention. Then again, maybe the brain eventually becomes skilled at adapting to it?
At 53 I am beginning to acknowledge that I will never run a sub 4 hour marathon again. That's not just age; my priorities are different and I don't want to put in the hours it would take. I want to keep doing a marathon per year, but I can see that there will be a day when I can't.
I already skipped last year due to an injury. I think it's better. I'm being careful about recovery.
I don't mean to be maudlin. I have probably five decades left to live, and much to do that isn't running. But there's a loss of a part of identity that isn't thrilling me.
As someone who can run at a pretty competitive pace, speed isn't everything. I notice that operating at the top competitive levels of most sports tends to destroy your body pretty quickly -- lots of stress injuries, sprains, accidents, etc, simply because you're pushing it so hard so often. When I really tried to push it, I could go faster and further... at the expense of actually enjoying myself.
I trail run in a much more relaxed way now -- enough to get a good workout, but definitely not as competitively as I used to road run. I've also picked up trail biking, and it's been SUCH a relief to just not think about my speed. I focus more on the experience of enjoying nature and I feel like that's a much healthier place to be. You can still push it occasionally, but there's a really pleasant niche at 60-80% of your max capacity! I also get the opportunity to share the sport with friends who aren't quite as speedy as me; turns out it's more fun to be social during an activity than to push myself.
And I have to say: at 53, even 4 hours is very very respectable. Try to remember that these things are first and foremost hobbies that are supposed to be fun!
At the age of 52 I ran my first marathon, not an organized race, I just picked a day, trained and ran it with a friend (an Ultra runner) who paced me round. I will never be fast but the sense of accomplishment of even a 10k or a 5k makes running such great form of exercise for the reasonably fit person.
I ran my first half marathon earlier this year; I am 48. I'm slow but before two years ago I'd never run so much as a 5k.
I would like to run a full marathon someday but I have no desire to run "quickly" for such a distance; I honestly think the training for that would leave me in worse shape than I am now.
> I have no desire to run "quickly" for such a distance
Don't run it "quickly" then. I know a bunch of people who are normally in the 5:30-6:15 range for a marathon (and several of them are well into the multi-100s of marathons run). If you have "6 hour" runs[1] near you, they're probably a good option for working up to / slowly doing a marathon.
[1] Run as many laps as you want in 6 hours. Handy for slow marathons because you know there'll be people around for at least 7 hours. Handy for bailing at a half / 10k / etc. since you can't DNF after you've done one lap.
I'm 41 and have been running since I was 17. The past decade I've spent doing increasingly difficult ultramarathons. Until a few years ago I really thought that if I just stayed consistent I'd be able to run my whole life - I still hope I can as it's my therapy. But I just lost 8 months and counting to a knee injury sustained during a race. It's been a real wake-up call that my body is going to have something to say about my plan. Training time is also at a premium now as I have a 2 year old. Amazing (and hopeful) to see someone still doing hard trail ultras at 81.
Everyone has their own luck. Appreciate that you can still run. Also 40 and knee injured with cartilage damage. I ran 3 marathons in the past decade and running was my passion, but now I have to be content with just walking.
Totally agree. My forced time off has clarified that all I really want is the health to get outside each day and stay healthy. Anything else is a bonus.
This is one of the things I love about rock climbing. It really seems like an activity that people can gracefully continue into their later years (if you're lucky enough to stay able bodied enough).
Activities that are hard on your body, and 100% physical, can be really unforgiving when it comes to the aging process.
With rock climbing you can kind of shift your focus.. maybe do more trad climbing instead of sport or bouldering. Focus on different types of climbs, maybe more technical slabby climbs where you're on your feet more. You can still feel like you're genuinely participating in the activity you love, even if you can't do exactly the same things you did before to the same extent.
I love climbing, but lets be honest - in later years it is quite brutal on your fingers and overall wrists. Things like osteoarthritis affect climbers too, heck based on some discussion with a doctor doing a lot of ultrasounds of hands its expected that climbers have messed up joints in hands and she could see some damage on mine too (I climb for a decade, in my early 40s).
For every guy climbing till his 70s there are a lot of those who had to stop for reason XYZ much before. If its not this its shoulder, anything in legs, spine and so on. Genes play a huge part too and thats pure lottery.
Just over a year ago I was climbing in Owens River Gorge and ran into John C. Hoffman. He was 78 and doing laps on a 5.11c, with his wife Anne belaying. He casually mentioned he had bolted the route we were on back in the 90s.
I'm not sure his current limit, but at 74 he was redpointing 5.12c. He's a dedicated ORG local and has been climbing since the mid-70s. His advice was simply: don't stop.
I have back issue (possibly an injury, but will need a MRI to confirm as nothing shows on CT) - I find that the issue is helped by climbing, and light weight-lifting involving the back-and-shoulders - just lifting dumbbells with arms outstretched, enough weight to offer resistance that engages the muscles properly.
I find the "puzzle"(or crux) in the climb make it less boring then repetitive movements at a gym, plus the genuine sense of fear from the danger helps me push my limit a bit (though I did have a poor fall as a result, so needs some caution).
Also, practical if you like to work with your hands, and I think for guys having decent arms and shoulders are particularly attractive.
In fact I do gym climbing as well, and it's really clear that the sport skews very young. There are a few older people there, some of them very talented, but you see an awful lot of college tee-shirts.
I was never a great climber -- I miss doing V3s, but the V2s keep me interested. (A lot of that is actually due to pandemic, which cost me a bit of the very specialized bits of muscle that go into crimpy and slopey routes. I am gradually getting some of it back.) I should do more top roping, which affords a bit more room to solve problems without falling off and starting over.
I ran my last marathon at 37, and I remember realizing that the lead-up to that was the fittest I would be from then on. Not that I've given up on fitness since, but it's definitely something to come to grips with. And I agree with you, a lot of it is priorities.
I went through this at much younger and I completely understand the feeling of loss of identity. I was a college rower back in the day, and at my peak I was doing 11 workouts a week, plus weightlifting. I finished school and it was hard to not completely lose enthusiasm for rowing because I knew I was the fastest I would ever be because I'd never have that kind of time again to train.
As an athlete, there's a big difference in mentality between trying to get better over time vs just trying to not get worse too quickly.
I would suggest that aging endurance athletes who are struggling with injury and recovery look into cycling. In my local community there are a lot of guys in their 60s and even 70s who enter 100k and 200k races and touring events
I wish I liked cycling. I did a fair bit of triathlon, and always dreaded the cycling leg (and the training for it).
I was a swimmer first, never really competitive but I am still in the first wave without even trying. And then everybody passes me on the bike, and it's hours of my back killing me. (Aero bars, drops, hoods makes no difference, though at least switching back and forth lets the painful part shift around.)
The thing I really like about running is that I can do it any time: in the dark, in the rain, in the snow. And if I let my mind wander, I won't run off the road at 20 MPH.
There is still risk of significant injury from road accidents. Other, perhaps safer, options for low-impact cardio include swimming and rowing (whether on an erg or on the water).
Gravel roads are popular recently in much of the US, and part of the draw I guess is less cars.
I'm a roadie for life though and fortunately the roads are pretty safe here. But I have definitely seen some regions in the US where I would not want to ride my bike on the roads.
;-) maybe make plans as though you have a lot less, and enjoy the bonus years instead?
I am a male of similar age in New Zealand, and my median lifetime prediction is the age of my parents. My parents started really slowing down 10 years ago, and have elderly issues, even though they have mostly led much healthier lifestyles than I.
I exercise, am skinny, low cholesterol and eat quite healthily.
High blood pressure since 27, genetics.
I can tell myself it doesn't matter but when I'm honest - it saddens and maddens me that there are those who live terrible (health wise) lives, are objectively terrible (just bad people) people, and will outlive me by decades.
Yeah, unfair, eh wot? Maybe a god could create equality and perfect justice, but anecdotally I haven't seen it happen yet.
Is it possible to learn to be chiller and more accepting? Is stress twice the killer for those who were gifted dodgy genes by their ancestors?
You are surely already in the top 10% of humanity, so sour grapes that another fellow gets 20% more than your riches in time is hard to swallow ;p
Personally, the bastards in my world seem to get their comeuppance because while they present a lucky face, I often find they have shot lives when I know more detail.
I'm a mostly-good middle-aged white guy from New Zealand (godzone[1]), so I reckon chances are that I have a similar outlook to you.
Reading the comments there reminds me that Reddit can be a pretty nasty place. Like "Do you have any other questions? Cos if this is your lot then you should stay out of pub quizzes" - needless hostility.
I expect to drop dead same as the last 5 generations of males in my family did, due to a heart attack at age 75 (Unless something else gets to me first), today we live longer, but they were far more resilient and more active
Seems like high blood pressure is correlated with a lot of unhealthy behavior. So I would speculate someone with only high blood pressure but a normal weight and lifestyle is not going to live decades less than normal. Not a doctor so I may be off base.
This is the same as all health research. We don't do controlled studies for ethical reasons, so we end up with lots of confounds. There are lots of clever ways to eliminate those confounds, and current research is considered sufficient to find a correlation between high blood pressure and heart disease, heart failure, stroke, kidney damage, vision loss, memory loss, and cognitive decline. There could be confounds not yet considered yet, but after reading a lot of research myself, I believe this is causative.
HOWEVER, we should put this in context. Apologies in advanced for switching to cholesterol for this example. For example, from memory, total cholesterol above 7mmol/L increases the risk of heart attack by around 20%. Your average typical annual risk of having a heart attack is 0.23%, so high cholesterol increases this to 0.28%. That's still low in nominal terms. Smoking, on the other hand, can increase risk of hart attack by as much as 700%. This raises one's annual risk to 1.61%. Still low in nominal terms, but much higher than high cholesterol. Now consider the many other factors we control, like diet, pollution, exercise, stress, and alcohol and other drugs. These mediate the nominal risk further still.
My current position is to lead a healthy lifestyle while individually combating the clearly bad lifestyle choices like smoking. I don't smoke anymore because it's so obviously hazardous that the benefits are not worth it. I might consider taking statins in the future if the side effects are few.
Quick google search revealed about 7 years of decrease in lifespan on average with people who have hypertension, but it also doesn't discriminate between fitness levels and other factors (whether it's treated or not, say), as you say.
Anyway, I thought OP had some harder evidence about their own claim, but it seems to be a guesstimate.
I'm in the same boat -- I'm 45 and a mediocre mountain bike racer, but over the last few years my motivation to train has gone down considerably. The problem is bike racing has been my "thing" for so long that's it's weird to think of cycling season coming and going without me.
I raced road bikes throughout my 20s. A few days ago I hit the 10 year anniversary of my last race. At this point in my life, I can barely relate to the person who practically organized their whole life around racing and was deeply embedded in the local scene. But I completely relate to your feelings about the season coming and going. Even a few years after hanging up the cleats, I would still sometimes get the itch to drop into my city's local crit. There is something a little cultish about bike racing that is hard to give up. I don't know anyone who managed to have a healthy relationship with it for more than a decade. But it is a lot of fun at its best.
> I don't know anyone who managed to have a healthy relationship with it for more than a decade.
Absolutely! When the 2020 season was cancelled due to Covid, one of my teammates asked "what are we supposed to do now, ride bikes for fun?" They were joking, but I think the sentiment rings true for a lot of people.
What type of racing are you doing? I am stating the obvious here but there is more than one discipline of MTB and switching could give you a jolt of motivation (if you want that jolt).
Latching to this comment -- would love feedback and guidance on how to run past the clinks and jerks in knees, ankles, and back etc when it comes to running, not to mention lungs.
Used to easily run half marathons as if it was nothing and on average 8-12km daily pre pandemic. Then COVID happened and my world closed down so did my running (and pretty much everything else) and now I struggle with everything. Yes, I am ~3 years older (early to mid 30s) but I don't think that should limit me. I also put on weight but I lost it then a bit of it keeps creeping back.
What's the way to get back - how should one approach it? Muscles? Gym? Strength? How?
I’m turning 36 this year and averaging about 80km/week these days. Although I didn’t stop for the pandemic.
The main thing that has helped me is to fix my form – make sure you always land with your leg straight down underneath your hip. Work with a reflective surface or a coach until you get this down and know what correct feels like. Then be conscious of this until it’s 2nd nature.
Second important thing are fresh shoes. No more than 600km.
Third – barbell squats and deadlifts. This gives your legs strength and balance so muscles/tendons can hold your joints steady.
Fourth – I added daily foam rolling this year and it really helped with tightness and resulting imbalances in my legs. Made running much easier.
Oh and make sure you eat enough. That helps with muscle soreness.
As credentials I offer that I ran a 3:15:28 marathon in November at 35, my fastest ever.
> I just run until they fall apart. A couple of thousand km easily.
Amazing! What kind of shoes do you use?
Mine do basically fall apart around 600km and I can feel a big difference in cushioning. New shoes feel like springs that give my feet a sproing, old shoes are like running barefoot – no sproing at all.
Adidas adizero adios (the old ones, before they grew a thick sole). Allbirds had a nice shoe they developed together with Adidas, which is discontinued now. Some Nike free, but they have too thick a sole for my taste… At the moment, the shoes I like best are discontinued. Luckily I have a couple of pairs in reserve. You know the writing is on the wall when they are heavily discounted; good time to buy a couple of pairs.
By the time I need to buy new ones, fashions will hopefully have shifted back…
By the way, when I say fall apart, I mean it literally: toes peeking out and losing bits of the sole.
I also rotate the shoes: the older ones are for the easy runs, the newer ones for tempo or intervals.
I'm 72 (73 next month), and I run dirt trails. Concrete is terrible on the joints, and asphalt only a little better. It's surprising how easy the dirt is on my joints. Part of it is that dirt is just softer, although I suppose another part is that you're not running as fast on trails because of the twists and turns, and ups and downs (I'm not much faster downhill than I am uphill).
I'm out east now, where the dirt has a lot of clay. I've run near Phoenix, which is more like compacted sand, and near Seattle, where the trails in the woods are even softer and easier on the joints.
Lungs--well that's a different story, especially on the uphills.
But I'm certainly not an athlete, never have been.
It's not running either since those particular shoes of mine have wheels.
So I'm very dependent on pavement for this activity.
>Concrete is terrible on the joints, and asphalt only a little better.
>He had worn out an average of two and a half pairs of running shoes each year ever since 1978
I don't have that kind of longevity. I did get new wheels a few years ago but I only had the old ones since 1983, so that's nothing like 1978. I don't lubricate them every year since I'm trying to get more exercise in a shorter period of time once I really thought about it. Didn't always have that good an attitude and it really helps now, same with skating into the wind which I used to dislike for obvious reasons. Last night storms were coming after work but I thought it was my last chance this week for dry pavement so I went anyway. For a while there it was 20 MPH wind with gusts to 30 before it finally did rain me out so I didn't get in the whole 10 miles. It was only really rough for the 25% of the time I was heading eastbound, where I only went about 2 MPH but with that kind of wind it takes as much energy as going 22 to 32.
>“Here’s something you’re probably too old to do.”
In regular shoes I usually go about 3 MPH for about 3 hours in my employer's chem lab, sometimes two or three times that. Not exactly toxin-free but it is what it is. I've got instruments in opposite ends of the lab and if I want to experiment as much as 3 people would do that's just what it takes. There's somebody there 24 hrs, once-in-a-while me. Up until less than a year ago I was getting the $10 running shoes from Walmart and wearing them out in 3 months. People in the lab give me a hard time because I keep wearing them an additional 3 months after that. They don't realize I'm also dancing to the oldies a few hours a week, often with much younger women who seem to like the oldies just fine. I'm no Mr Bojangles but for this I like it when there is no tread any more and the shoes have softened up quite a bit. With inflation I think those cheap ones will never be available again so I've downgraded to the $24 kind now. It's the only thing close.
Talk about asphalt, might as well throw this in here for a little relief, disregard if you hate petroleum chemistry. Now with heavy fuel oil we sometimes determine a component known as asphaltenes. This consists of some heavy solid hydrocarbon molecules of somewhat nebulous structure, dissolved in the oil, but not actually paraffins or tar. None of which I would ever want to get onto any expensive shoes. Anyway I'm a senior operator and advanced chemists still seem to expect me to know more than people actually can about this flaky stuff, even after they are fairly skilled at performing the difficult test. So occasionally I have to explain it in detail, and with my lengthy background I relate it to skateboarders of all things. It helps them to remember the fine points of unknowability easier. I tell them exactly what asphaltenes really are. First there are skateboarders who prefer solid concrete most of all, other times there are some that only want to skate on asphalt. Those are the asphalt-teens. Whose-ass fault was that anyway. Nobody's fault but mine.
Right above my brass plaque from ASTM I still display (what I thought was) a unique sticker from a short promotional run by a local printer, which I never have actually stuck to anything since the guy gave it to me with my letterheads when I had started my own lab back in the 1990's:
"The difficult we will do immediately, the impossible will take a little longer."
Since that's what I mainly do day-to-day scientifically for decades now.
TIL this saying was actually coined by:
>Fridtjof Nansen, the Norwegian explorer who led the first crossing of Greenland on skis
And this is what I just happened to "run" across earlier today:
Echoing the other advice, good shoes, get fitted for the first pair at a running shop that analyses you first.
Secondly don't fall into the trap of thinking that you can jump back into running 8km or so daily, you need to build yourself up slowly first, use an easier program like couch to 10k after which you should be in good enough shape to start increasing frequency of runs.
While you're in this phase concentrate on easy paced runs, so hopefully the lungs shouldn't be an issue, you should run at a pace where you can hold a conversation without struggling for breath.
I'm closing in on 40 and trying to run my first sub 4 hour marathon before then. I figure you don't really start running that fast after 40, so this is my last chance to ever be a 4 hour marathoner.
FWIW - I started running distance seriously only when I was 38. Ran my first half at 39 and ran my fastest half yet ( 1:39) at 44. Ran my first marathon at 45 - (3:56). I've gotten faster since then (per my 5K speed), but haven't run another marathon since - it is a significant time commitment.
You have more time than you think, especially at the marathon distance. If you were looking for sub-3, then yeah, you’d better hurry, but 40s isn’t at all old for a sub-4 marathon, especially if you’re willing to put in the miles during training.
Males have to get to 65 years old before a 4-hour marathon will even qualify them for Boston.
I'd wanted to qualify for Boston in my 20s, which at the time required a 3:10 marathon. It was just barely at the limit of possibility, if I had a perfect day, which I never did.
Then they dropped that limit to 3:05, and that might as well be on the far side of the moon. So, I never run Boston. Ah, well. That was a very stretchy stretch goal.
Don't sell yourself short. I only started running when I turned 38. I ran my first marathon in 3:53 when I was 42, and my second one in 3:41 when I was 44. I'm now nearly 48 and am planning on doing another one later this year and am training for a sub 3:30 time.
My second powerlifting meet a dude had SEPTUAGENARIAN embroidered on his belt and he wasn't the only septuagenarian at it; the other was a judge's mom whose third deadlift continues to be the best strength sport attempt I've ever watched live. Granted this is a much easier sport than endurance running IMHO, but my point is there's room to do sports for a while yet.
I’m normally a runner but I’ve been doing a shit ton of inclined walking to train for a climb.
I’ve come to actually love walking now, weirdly enough. Feels meditative. I think part of the key is focusing on form, which leads you to sometimes forget your physical existence.
I've been recovering from a hip injury and can't run more than 2-3 miles but I can walk. My real goal is to climb Denali among other peaks and I'm wondering how I can get into shape during this period with just walking. Do you just max incline 4mph and go for a couple of hours?
Read about cardio zones, understand and internalize them. Then, do all of your training in zone 2. If you have to breathe through your mouth, you’re going too fast and need to slow down.
Be strict about not going anaerobic. Try to get 8-10 hours of cardio a week, with 25%-50% of that on a weekend hike, and ideally one other day that’s 90 minutes or so. Also do some strength training.
But volume is king. If you try to go too fast you’ll only train your anaerobic ability, which you can’t sustain in a hike. You want to be extremely good at going fast at a low level of exertion.
I’m nowhere near 4 mph at 15% incline. More like 2 right now. But I’m gradually getting there with all this volume, and I only started training two weeks ago for this season (before this I was trying to only focus on weights). I also plan on adding a lot of low intensity stair climbing soon.
Despite how much time I’m spending, my body feels great. It’s not like running, which beats you up.
Running for me has always been about myself. I was never competitive; I just wanted to set personal records.
Of course, I was young and male and healthy, and just finishing put me in the 95th percentile of everybody. I could compare myself to an age group rather than everybody, but that too is a narrowing of identity.
I could drop from marathons and do half-marathons, which are a far less ludicrous sport. Marathons really aren't good for you. It's more about being willing to endure those last 6 miles than actual fitness. A half marathon doesn't have a month-long recovery time. And completing it would still put me in a 90%+ bracket (of some poorly-defined, purely idiosyncratic notion).
Dag is amazing but he's probably not the world's oldest ultrarunner.
Bernd Heinrich is 83 and recently wrote a whole book (highly recommend) about running and aging, Racing the Clock. There's also the Bay Area legend Eldrith Gosney who is the same age and still kicking. https://ultrasignup.com/m_results_participant.aspx?fname=Eld...
It's funny to imagine these authors pompously claim someone as "world's x" looking through the lens of the Western world being the whole world. I'm sure there's a women in rural Nepal who has carried water on her head uphill for longer distances and years, or a Masai tribesman who does 2x that hunting for baboons
In other words, people training for ultramarathons really are probably working harder than other people, even accounting for lifestyle and income disparities.
Sorta unrelated but I wanted to join in on everyone reflecting on their athletic careers:
I worked at a mid-tier consulting firm as my first job and had an incredible work-life balance. I ran 3-4 times a week and cycled twice a week. I got into triathlons and even completed a 24hr obstacle race challenge where you had to complete a 11km course with ~40 obstacles as many times as possible in 24 hours. I completed it 8 times. I was fit.
A few years later I moved into a top-tier consulting firm and my work-life balance evaporated. (I also picked up a girlfriend along the way.) I'm lucky to get one gym session and one run in a week. I participate in probably only 1 or 2 races a year (instead of the usual 5-7 before I joined). I'm miserable. I only realised in the last few months how important training and being fit is to my identity and that even being successful in a "prestigious" consulting firm is an insufficient salve for the wound. Especially since my "peak" probably lies somewhere in my mid-30s, which are only a few years away for me, I really want to pick up where I left off. I can't wait to find another job now and find that part of myself again.
Nothing is preventing you from finding a new job. Life is not an axis, where doing one thing necessarily takes away from another. Rather it is a polygon, with a number of points equal to the factors important to your existence.
Exactly same here (6-7 hard workouts per week - running, free weights, climbing, weekends spent on long hikes, ski touring etc), but evaporation of workout was mainly due to covid and WFH, and becoming parent (that's a proper black hole for any free time, even if you are unemployed). Also 2 pretty bad injuries last year (wrist and ankle). It got me pretty depressed and I am not yet out of woods completely.
If you find these kind of passions in life, corporate work world is just necessary evil distraction to get money to actually live and do what you want. Which I am fine with, but around me I see very few people with similar passions in their lives.
One dangerous thing I noticed - with diminishing number of trainings, my mindset also changed a bit. Getting motivation for workouts got harder, motivation to push myself a bit is lower. I actually could find more time if I tried harder. At least it goes both ways - increasing frequency brings it back, which is great now since I can run outside in the forest and it gets dark later.
That said, as a relatively new runner I'm really undecided whether to train for a full marathon. For context: I'm 38; I began running about less than 2 years ago. In the last 12 months, I ran 3 half marathons. I run 3-4 times a week. A month-ish ago I accomplished my "Cracking 2" project[1] of running a half-m in just under 2 hours (1hr59m) in non-stop rain of 7C.
I feel like 2 hours of running is the "sweet spot" that allows you to train for other aspects like resistance, etc while letting you to maintain the fitness for the long term. Still, I feel a slight pull to train for the full marathon. (But the unhealthy-looking thinness of marathon and longer distance runners is not inspiring.) For now, I'll just enjoy the half-marathons until I can thoroughly convince myself that training for a full marathon is "worth it". There's so many variables that I can improve on the half-m distance, and still keep it exciting.
As somebody who’s recently started running marathons. you’re 100% correct to enjoy half marathons and lower distances until you “have to” run something longer.
The marathon is the first common race distance where it just doesn’t feel like the human body is particularly made to do it. The training takes more time and is more work. Lots of long runs have the potential to end up feeling ominous instead of relaxing.
Also I suspect that once you’re running full marathons at a decent pace, your training has probably crossed over from increasing health to decreasing health.
Glad you say the phrase "it [full marathon] just doesn’t feel like the human body is particularly made to do it". I don't mind the training, but question the long-term safety aspect.
My left foot is flat and it aches noticeably around the area of ankle joint after 22KM distance of hiking or running. This is "diffuse pain", and it goes away in a day or two.
I've been trying to understand the root-cause of it for a long time to no avail. I recently visited a sports medicine specialist to get a professional opinion on whether I can safely train for a full marathon. He suggested a fancy "SPECT-CT" scan for the foot-bone. Looking at the result yesterday, everything is good; no major issues, but "I spot a sensitivity in the area of that ankle joint, but I still don't know the cause of it", he said. So he suggested an MRI scan to rule out any other issues. This will be my last attempt at understanding this problem. I know how to live with it; it's not egregious if I'm being careful.
But he did say that I can train for a full marathon if I wanted, "but listen to the foot" after each longer than 22KM training run.
For now, I'm still enjoying the 22-25KM range. I'll probably start some trail runs, which require different preparation for the unexpected bumps in the terrain.
to clarify, is that 2hrs daily, or 2hrs 3-4 times a week (i.e. every 2 days, or avg 1hr per day)?
Sometimes I think the real gains are running on near empty, when your body has to start creating blood sugar.
I also think some marathons can be pretty harmful, especially because they are unusual events, possibly masked by the fact that runners are healthier than the general population so no one takes notice - but when you start to tire it's easy to get sloppy and take a misstep that damages your feet. That said, I have a poor gait as a result of a medical/genetic issue so maybe I'm just more liable for injury.
> to clarify, is that 2hrs daily, or 2hrs 3-4 times a week (i.e. every 2 days, or avg 1hr per day)?
Sorry for being ambiguous. No, I didn't mean 2 hours daily (heavens forbid! :-)), nor was I talking about training time per week[1].
I meant 2 hours as max time in one go—i.e. training for distances of roughly 22-25 KM (13-15 miles) or 2 hours is the sweet spot, I feel (maybe I'm biased). One of the main goals for me here is to reduce the likelihood of getting injured over long-term by not over-training.
you're spot on. Your lingering "what if" will stay until you ran that marathon. As long as you have a good training regiment I think a single marathon is nothing to fret healthwise. However, in the long run (heh) just going for half marathons is probably the healthier route. (I'm the same age as you and restarted running last year and have still to crack a half-marathon again - I lost a lot of fitness these last few sedentary [covid] years. So, the most important part is just staying with it and enjoying the journey :))
Thank you for the validation. :-) Absolutely agree on "staying with it". I'm not "craving" for a full marathon or prove anything to anyone. I'm trying not to burn myself out by over-training.
I hear you on losing fitness: It's unfair how quickly we lose the training we put into running. Just even one month of skipping runs (due to life coming in the way) has a noticeable effect in slow-down and efficiency.
And good luck (or "succes" as they say in Dutch, which I like better as it tilts towards the positive) with your upcoming half-m. I'm sure you'll crush it!
Not to rain on everyone’s parade, but there is considerable scientific evidence that marathons and ultramarathons are detrimental to one’s long term health. Modest (30 minute at a moderate pace) cardiovascular exercise 3-4 times a week, resistance training, and yoga/stretching is a better strategy for good health in one’s 70s and 80s.
You can have serious acute injuries from running via physical accidents or mismanagement of hydration. You can also die driving to the market to buy toilet paper, but the risks in both cases are extremely manageable.
Life threatening or debilitating chronic health problems from running high volume are rare, and far outweighed by the overall health benefits of regular exercise. Most of the ideas that persist out there, like running being bad for your joints, are complete myths. https://www.health.harvard.edu/healthbeat/will-continuing-to...
The only thing to get screened for if you want to run marathons or more is a family history of heart defects, to avoid the very small possibility of sudden cardiac death, which is a risk with basically all intense exercise, including things like shoveling snow or other manual labor. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6070620/
Oh he hit you with the, "do your own research." I also like that he posts that on this article about an 81 year old running 130kms. How many of his peers who did 30 minutes can barely walk but he's out there killing it.
At what point did running really far become the thing to aspire too when getting fit?
What about strength? Speed? Flexibility? Agility? Regardless of the evidence, most people are better served doing a good mix of activities and being generalists.
The only reason to run more than 10km is if you like running. Otherwise 5-10km at a decent pace is just a good cheap way to get effective cardio. You should probably stop there and lift something heavy.
I think well-roundedness gets overlooked because our culture is one that lionizes those who push themselves to near-death in a certain specialization, so you get a segment of people pushing themselves harder than is holistically healthy.
I’m not going to convince anyone by pulling a couple references from PubMed. I only suggest you do your own research on extreme sports - and yes, ruining 26 miles nonstop counts as extreme - and come to your own conclusions. If you’re marathoner, I also invite you to investigate the importance of muscle mass in overall health, particularly as one ages. Muscle has a host oh health benefits, even though an extra 20 lbs of upper body muscle mass will kill your long distance running times.
> I’m not going to convince anyone by pulling a couple references from PubMed
You could at least make a good faith attempt and meet people at least halfway though, right?
FWIW I've read studies saying the same thing- my critique is just with your approach here. You wouldn't believe someone who just waltzed in with a statement and refused to post any references, would you?
My father had a stroke, caused by an afib, caused by engaging in (we think) 24 hour cycling challenges. I was content with my personal best of 110 miles in a day, I think he pushed close to 200.
I don't know if we know how to detect when such damage is initially occurring, but that would be an excellent field of research.
He's an extreme example but in marathons the 30 and 40 age groups tend to outperform younger runners. Aerobic fitness keeps accumulating and tends to decline very slowly with age, at least until people get into their 70s.
The amount of time I hear age related complaints about being too old or feeling tired from people my age, (which is early 30s!) is kind of nuts. People are incredibly in their head about age in our culture.
My ‘hubby’ just completed her first ever half marathon this weekend at the Toronto Marathon.
Meeting her at the finish line; I clearly in no way had any clue just how intense and borderline insane marathon running really is. She’d been training for about a year, but tbh I hadn’t really seen her do it a lot, since she was usually at the gym, and I guess just the idea of processing that she just did a 22km run, going up and down various hills as well; was honesty mind blowing.
It’s gotta be a labour of love, because holy cow; it seems tough.
It is so incredibly rewarding and peaceful once you get past the odd zones that come and go in the first dozen (for me at ~5k and ~10k actually). I've never ran more than marathon's length, but routinely ran half-marathons for a couple years before my knees gave up and took much of my mental fortitude with them. I never found through other activties anything quite like it, there is just so much peace along with the body's releases.
That's what a half-marathon is. The event is generally referred to by the primary distance (usually a marathon), and the individual may run one of several races in the same event (in this case, the half).
You've got 4 years to go till your biological peak, after 30 testoterone production diminshes. Endurance goes up with age if you keep training.
The best long distance runners, the Tarahumara, got brought to races. The first they didn't do well because they were forced to wear the shoes of the sponsor. The second time they could run barefoot like they used to, in a cutout from an old tire with a cord pulled through. The 60 year old won handily. Source: Born To Run by Chris McDougall. Highly recommended, devoured it.
Agreed. I never had an appreciation or strong desire to exercise, play competitive sports, etc until mid-way through college when I decided to start running (couch to 5k).
Since then I've started skiing, climbing, and running regularly, and there are a number of benefits that I've noticed:
- Great social outlet
- As you do it more and more, pushing yourself, and competing is quite fun
- I used to have back pain and other issues - being active has definitely helped with that
You can start at any age and it's not about accomplishing something, just offering your body a specific amount of aerobic and resistance training workload.
You don't owe this to anyone and you don't need to measure up to anyones standards, just do what feels reasonable to yourself. I was above 30 when I started regular exercise regimen. You don't need anything complex. If someone is trying to sell you up to something complex and expensive, skip it (unless you find it personally motivating). What one does need, is a routine.. I do running, kettlebells and pushups. I hate every minute of it, but luckily podcasts, audiobooks etc. make the exercise go past unnoticeably. I do it because if I don't, my body will start to punish me with various aches and pains.
I developed sudden heart problems year and a half ago and haven't struggled with exercise before that. Feels like heart is "turning over", "flip-floping" and overall does not know how to contract properly (lasts from a moment to a few seconds, but quite frequent). This also happens while resting and even asleep, which wakes me up. I still exercise regularly (brisk walking, cycling at <= 130 BPM) but anything more intense makes these sensations almost unbearable.
It's just fascinating that people can live to 80 or more and still be moderately healthy and physically fit enough to run as this guy in the article, that's all.
Getting my cardio upto decent levels (using the Couch 2 4k program) has done wonders for all my other physical pursuits. I can do callisthenics till the muscles become sore rather than just cardio fatigue. The same during martial arts practice and everything else. It's very high ROI.
At what point do you think that the advances in age beating tech in Medicine will actually kick in? I keep seeing optimistic headlines about research in mice etc with nothing to show for it later. About 10 years ago, I remember reading about how new research would make dental cavities go away. The same with age related research.
Are there things you are aware of that actually work and are accessible?
I hope I can do same. Now 60 and live my training. As a teen I was a sprinter. Then left athletics out of lack of interest. I now have small kids and I have read how each hour running adds 2h to your lifetime. With small kids that was me sold. I don’t have speed anymore but have been doing 80-20 running. Lots of easy distance. I’ve never been healthier and have now a V02max over 50.
It is my relaxation. Just me and the road and watching how my body is working is a form of meditation in itself. Plan on running as long as I can and getting to a marathon this year - target is sub 4.
As I age I only worry about care for my kids. But being able to run distance also shows the kids discipline, patience, and grit.
The sports we choose as we age should be not just good for us but also those around us. It’s a virtuous cycle.
This is just so alien to me. I know it's not rare but the idea of pushing my physical limits or competing for no reward holds absolutely no appeal for me. I only aim to be healthy which is hard enough with a chronic illness.
Exercise seems miserable, but most exercise isn’t actually that intense, and your body adapts. Your body craves it. I feel great after workouts, and tense on my rest days.
At times it becomes utterly blissful, like spiritually blissful, and leaves you feeling relaxed and happy otherwise.
People have a vested interest in pretending exercise is miserable to cast themselves as spiritually superior, but they actually usually like it quite a bit.
I mean, I have exercised pretty intensely when I was younger and it never didn't feel like work. Not when I was doing something solo like weight lifting or something more socially engaging like martial arts. There were times it was moderately satisfying if I could perform a technique smoothly for the first time, but it never didn't feel like work. And I hurt myself overexerting more than once. As a middle-aged person, it's much worse. It's not only not satisfying, but extremely difficult to get any measurable results. Lifting weights routinely left me sore and not any stronger when I recovered. Exercise is very much miserable and I don't like it at all. I presume it's biological to some degree that some people feel the bliss and some just don't.
I believe the treadmill goes both directions. Someone who's ridden a century or run a marathon has a much different concept of what a stressful day looks like. There were always two groups of developers who seemed particularly unflappable: the cyclists, and the ex-military (I will say the ex-submariner took it too far and he was so calm he went straight into creepy). There are no guarantees here, but there are patterns. We had a particularly high maintenance manager who was trying to qualify for the Boston Marathon, for instance. I wonder now what she would have been like if she weren't running. Terrifying.
I don't think that means you have to engage in endurance sports, but maybe joining a volunteer group that cleans parks or repairs wetlands would be good not just for your self esteem but also your sanity.
Type 2 fun is my favorite way of describing it. Usually starts with good intentions, it’s miserable while it’s happening, but afterwards the mind convinces itself that the experience was enjoyable.
Yeah, I just completed a 100 mile ultramarathon where over half of the starters didn't finish. I was miserable (heat, blisters, quads busted from downhills), but right now I am trying to fill in the rest of the year with similar events!
I did two long training days in Cool this past weekend, on some of the same trails as Canyons the week before. High temperatures were in the low 50°s. Y’all got really unlucky with the heat. That DNF rate was brutal — congrats on getting a finish!
Yes, to me too. I of course admire people who can push themselves this hard. Does the reward only come after the racing? In the memory, accomplishment? Seems like many runners are academic and high-achievers in different fields, who're able to carry out long-term projects - I wonder how these traits in career and hobby of running relate
> Does the reward only come after the racing? In the memory, accomplishment?
I started our ultra running because I wanted the achievements. That would never have sustained me doing it over the long term though. Eventually I learned to slow down a bit during the races so that it was less of a sufferfest and I could enjoy them more in the moment. Now just being "out there" is the reward.
I didn't get into exercising until I was in my 20s, but it absolutely has a reward. In general I just feel "better". Mood is improved, back pain is gone, etc.
And I'm just starting to appreciate the parts about pushing my physical limits in the past few years. When skiing, it's fun to push myself to the limits of what I can do while still staying in control and safe. When running, it's fun to push yourself the limits of what you can do, running faster, longer, etc. Ran my first half marathon with a friend this last weekend, and it was a blast.
Great story. Think twice though before adopting mind over matter approach.
The Born to Run hero died at ~60 while doing a 12 mile training run of massive heart damage.
Running too far or even with too fast a pace may be hazardous for the average individual according to scientists studying this subject
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6U728AZnV0
Not being flippant, but who do you mean with the "Born to Run hero"? A quick search does not give me any articles of someone dying early, and Christopher McDougall (who wrote the book "Born to Run") is also still alive.
I’ve seen a study showing that people who run a lot may actually live shorter than people who just do moderate exercise. Extreme exercise could be as bad as no exercise at all.
Most of the comments here about running are about performance but running could be a practice linked to meditation [1] where breathing and leaving thoughts are key.
[0] https://www.axios.com/local/miami/2022/10/12/miami-beach-run... [1] https://www.amazon.com/Running-Raven-Amazing-Community-Inspi...