> Just curious, what point of view makes daily running seem sad?
If I was to guess, it's similar to the tone of the article. You can't beat time.
Eventually they'll be forced to stop and there's a particular sadness in watching those who used to be able to do great feats no longer do them.
For me, it's the same sadness as watching a sharp mind like my grandfather's succumb to alzheimer's. It's not quick, and it's not painless for everyone involved. For me, it was years watching him forget me, his daughter (my mother), and eventually language all together.
Better to have loved and lost than never have loved at all?
> Better to have loved and lost than never have loved at all?
Absolutely, otherwise what's the point of living if not experiencing life in its more intensive (more rewarding but also more hurting) aspects?
Similar to ie mountaineers and various other extreme sports folks, they all love the life more than average Joe since they experienced how much it can give if you push it further. Despite what some think they are not suicidal, in contrary, they keep doing what they love despite the increased risk of losing it all prematurely. No adventurer regrets doing adventures when looking back.
So its a combo of them wrapping their identity into this one thing (running here), eventually not being able to keep doing it, but also there is an aspect that I am purely assuming which is they could have done more variety of stuff with their life. This last point being super biased as its based in my own desires, and who knows, maybe they LOVE this one thing and that's all they want for fulfillment.
But to your point, i also love hearing stories of old people defying our expectations of what an old person should be able to do.
I agree, but I can also view such strident commitment to a fixed set of ideas to be pretty unimaginative, or lacking in categorical ambition, lacking in exploration perhaps depending on the person. My father for example has not been on a plane in 34 years. Not for any legitimate practical reason, though he'd come up with something if prompted; almost like he's archived his exposure to the world in 1989. He has no idea what it's like to even book a flight, how much it really costs, how security procedures have changed over time, and has no ambition to ever leave the continent.
Being far too broad and shallow in life is just as bad, if not worse.
In the worst case, the depth-first life leaves a person mostly useless except for at least one deep skill, but the breadth-first life in the worst case can leave a person completely useless since no skills have been developed past an arbitrarily superficial level.
These are, of course the extreme ends where life has been well wasted. :)
True, but then you have to evaluate the value of having a deep skill versus a wide range of xp. Usually, it's a feat in itself b/c starting things often require money, which is difficult to obtain with no deep skills (unless given/inherited).
I'm more of the opinion that no deep skills is no skills at all. Similarly, a wide range of experiences from a blank slate without the necessary effort to connect the dots might as well be no experience at all.
Often an inheritance comes with an upbringing full of entirely different experiences, culture, and values from those who do not inherit much if anything. Deep knowledge and skills are naturally imbued into the next generation without much deliberate effort despite the fact that someone did put in much deliberate effort to manifest that situation. Every lineage begins with someone who had to learn it all the hard way.
I suppose that's a deeper question of why do anything different at all if your current set of things results in your happiness?
Aside from practical limitations, health, economic prosperity, I'm of the opinion that there's value in staying compelling by exploring your curiosities instead of dismissing them in favour of protecting your current happiness. In order to have resilient connections with others, you need to find ways to stay attractive over time, and it's a consequence of doing new things from time to time, travel maybe being one of them.
You can go wide and shallow or narrow and deep. There's no enough time in the world to go wide and deep on all topics. To each it's own, but personally I prefer to go explore fewer topics, but in great depth. I travel very rarely, but when I do, I try to make it at least weeks if not months. When I take up a hobby, I stick to it for years.
> He has no idea what it's like to even book a flight, how much it really costs, how security procedures have changed over time
TBH I don't think that's something to miss. I'd be pretty happy to not know that either. Unless you're writing a book about air travel security, that's probably not worth any attention.
> TBH I don't think that's something to miss. I'd be pretty happy to not know that either. Unless you're writing a book about air travel security, that's probably not worth any attention
It's more of a personal revulsion I have against having pride in being ignorant, and then relying on ancient knowledge only to inform current and future decisions. "Flying is a hassle and expensive" just isn't true in many but not all cases. It's one thing to have a preference, it's another to have prejudice, and I think ignorance turns into prejudice if you go long enough without re-evaluating the criteria you once used.
That's an interesting way to put it. I certainly wouldn't say I have much ambition to leave the continent either. If the time and money come up, there's places I'd like to go, and maybe I will some day. It's not a big life goal I'm working towards though.
Cross-continental travel can be tricky to convince yourself of the value, if you've never really been driven toward it, but there's a certain type of person who will imagine a burden before even exploring the real numbers, and dismiss forever as too expensive without an idea of what it costs; in the case of my dad, not ever even acquiring a cursory sense of the cost
I know the cost is going to be a couple thousand dollars. It's something that I'd be reasonably able to afford in the next few years if I made it a goal. It's value, however, is less to me than a lot of other things that would cost the same amount. I could upgrade a lot of my hobby equipment for the price of a trip to Europe. That would be an investment that gives back every day for years. I'd like to experience other cultures, but the amount of immersion I'd get for that price is nothing compared to the enjoyment I could get from better landscaping in my little yard, a project horse to spend the next 15 years bonding with and enjoying, or some better power tools to keep the house up with. I'm not 20 any more. I'm married. I certainly can't just leave the country for 6 months and backpack and to keep me and my husband in reasonable accommodations for that length of time is well beyond our resources and the amount of time off I can finagle at the job I love.
With a bit of effort we could afford say, 5k, to go off for a couple weeks and do the tourist things in basically any region that piques our interest. That same amount of money could provide both of us a lot more growth and enjoyment without leaving the US.
For some people, the concept of just existing without experiencing something grand or new, is a waste of life. Imagine, doing the same thing every day until you die. For some people it is peaceful and wonderful. The joy of existing. For others it is a horror. Stagnation and rot.
I used to be the former, with a great fear of missing out on all life has to offer. Lately though I'm the latter, realizing the immense joy in existing.
I don't know if it's necessarily the activity as much as the adherence to the same route that feels sad. At the same time, it's not that I feel sad for the guy, but I think it would drive me nuts if I did that. Reading about Emmanuel Kant's daily walking routine makes me feel a little bit of despair in my soul, even though I understand he probably had a much deeper internal experience going on than I can relate to.
I did the same 1.5 mile trail (Council Crest in Portland, OR w/ 750’ of elevation gain) 110 times in 2019 (part of a 10 mile round trip route from my apartment). I learned every step of the trail and named the more notable trees. I could do the whole trail in my mind and feel like I was there. I did it in 100 degree summer weather, many times in pouring rain, and even ice and snow.
I felt like it was a privilege to get to know something that deeply.
But I’m also somebody who doesn’t ever plan to leave the US or even get on a plane again because there’s so much worth seeing right outside my front door!
Thanks for sharing that. I liked your note on doing the trail in your mind because it reminds me of when I stumble through a piano piece that I learned decades ago as a kid. It somehow brings me back in time, so that I feel like I could guess what was cooking for dinner or what was stressing me out at school/home.
Yup there's a hill nearby that I've climbed about 100 times on my bike over the past couple years. I always cherish my time that I spend there - the scenery is constantly changing throughout the season, and I frequently run into acquaintances along the way.
Every day might get a little monotonous, but a couple times a week is doable (and enjoyable) for sure!
I pass a sightseeing spot on my usual run. It's on a hill, overseeing a lake bellow as well as forest surrounding the lake. I take the same picture whenever I got phone on me. Looking back at the pictures, there're no 2 identical pictures. Lush greenery, snow, ice on a lake, brownness of the fall.... Maybe a tree has fallen or a younger tree got big enough to cover older ones since the year before.
There're tons and tons of details that are hard to notice if you ain't coming back for a hundredth time.
I’ve been walking a similar route through the nearby forest for the last 2-3 years. It really isn’t the same thing on a day to day basis. The weather changes, the plants change. In the winter, you can see quite far into the woods. In the summer, you see only green, but lots of different plants and insects. Sometimes, there’s deer, the bird sounds change with the season. Lots of woodpeckers in the winter and spring.
It’s not the only route I walk, but I was surprised myself that I almost never found it boring.
Some people just love routine. Just recently I have listened interview with local Olympic swimmer Giedrius Titenis (not in English, so won't share). He mentioned that he liked to swim in a pool the same n*100 meter distances multiple times each day. Repeat and repeat and repeat. This allows person to compare current result with previous. Measure time and think "oh, I made in xy seconds but still had some power left, I can do better next time".
Thanks for sharing your viewpoint. I find repitition of the same routine mind-numbing. Walking to the office where there is only one valid route, it destroys me. I think others find such things meditative.
Meta: I don't get how people claim to be curious about other's perspectives, then when someone shares a perspective they downvote it because it's not the same as their own.
Directly in the beginning, without even scrolling, it says:
> Raven has chronic back pain, spinal stenosis and vertigo. His feet hurt so much — from bone spurs and calluses — that he runs with his New Balance sneakers untied.
"Running" for 3 hours a day likely contributes to all that. Mixing it up would be an idea. Biking, swimming, kayaking, rowing, tennis, badminton, taking walks, there is so much you can do.
Being stubborn is not a healthy character trait, even though sometimes people hail it as "inspiring". What this guy inspires me to be is to ensure I never turn into him.
Ah I see, maybe I interpret it differently because I don’t think all compulsions are bad. Compulsions only become addictions when they seriously negatively affect your life.
Thought I’d ask since hearing these stories of old healthy people brings me so much happiness.