On: Tesla employee writes of low wages, poor morale; company denies claims

[simplehuman]

That Tesla pays poor wages is well known. But this is expected since they are more a startup and do not have that much cash to go by. I guess the sad part is they don't hand out much shares either

[maxxxxx → simplehuman]

Tesla is not a startup. It's a big company with real products. Their startup days are long gone.

[EthanHeilman → maxxxxx]

Being a startup in the automotive manufacturing business is not the same as being a startup in the software business. A software company with 1000 employees is huge, an automotive manufacturing company with 1000 employees is tiny.

[saalweachter → EthanHeilman]

So is Tesla compensating its factory workers with stock options?

If you're working for a startup and they expect you to work long hours for pay below the industry standard and they don't give you stock or stock options, they don't get to play the "startup!" card.

We debate endlessly the risk/reward for stock options in a startup versus good pay and benefits at an established company, but if they aren't even giving you stock--

[Xixi → EthanHeilman]

Out of curiosity I checked the number of employees of a small car manufacturer no too far from my hometown: Bugatti. 91 employees for an output of about 40 cars a year. I'm actually surprised that is possible at all to be so small in the automotive industry (though to be fair they belong to Volkswagen Group). Of course not trying to compare that to Tesla, the goal/scope/market is just too different.

[maxxxxx → Xixi]

Gumpert produces a super sports car with around 50 employees. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Automobil

It really doesn't take many people to produce a car.

[EthanHeilman → Xixi]

That is a fair point. I was comparing Tesla to the scale of companies that it wants to compete against.

[new299 → simplehuman]

Being a startup and having cash to pay employees well are not mutually exclusive.

In fact they appear to have raise 2.37 Billion: https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/tesla-motors#/entity

[blackguardx → simplehuman]

Telsa is publicly traded on the US stock market. Surely it has graduated to "real company" by now. If not, when would you mark that point for a company?

[EthanHeilman → blackguardx]

For an automotive company, when it has produced more than 200,000 cars for more than 5 years in a row.

200,000 cars per year would be:

* 2% of Toyota's yearly output,

* 4% of GM's yearly output,

* 20% of BMW's or Mazda's yearly output.

[blackguardx → EthanHeilman]

I agree Tesla is a small automotive company, but it isn't a startup. There are plenty of small companies that aren't startups.

[EthanHeilman → blackguardx]

Startup depends on your goals. Tesla wants to compete with GM and Toyota. It clearly has a long way to go.

[luckydata → EthanHeilman]

From the EthanHeilman rulebook?

[EthanHeilman → luckydata]

Well yeah, blackguardx asked me how I would mark it I gave my answer.