I remember when jQuery came out and there were all sorts of existing make-js-dom-ajax-easy libraries already out with major entities backing them: Dojo toolkit (a ton of companies), Prototypejs (Rails), GWT (Google), YUI (Yahoo) and many more.... but jQuery backed by a single guy won.
For the most part, I think front-end frameworks are overused. Like, Uber's freight page — why the hell are they using React? My gut tells me some internal tooling bootstrapped setup, but something else tells me "because it's cool, and it's not cool not to use it."
The appeal just isn't there to me. Developers (and c-level execs) seem to care about how hot their stack is, rather than how practical their stack is. I guess my liberty comes from being self-employed, and being able to make my own decisions. I don't want another thing to have to learn/document/support/break in my pipeline. I just want everything to work as fast as I need it to work, when I need it to work.
I've managed just fine (as have many, many others) with just dropping in Turbolinks if I need "fast". HOWEVER, I will say that when the business requirements mentioned "get it close to real time" and "lots of moving parts on this [controller/page]", I ditched my janky-ass jQuery hackjob and went to Vue. And I'm really, really glad I did it.
Doing mostly React myself, Vue has reminded me of times when I was doing PHP and the Rails was "next big thing", and you couldn't have discussion about technology on "neutral ground" without it being raided by aggressive RoR fanboy or few to explain to you how you are doing it all wrong without giving any arguments, but with a lot of snark.
Not criticizing the quality of those tools when I say the following, but techs like Vue, TypeScript, MobX (for a while, I didn't see it happen lately), etc seem to have gained popularity mostly because you could not say anything without them being mentioned. Then people who are unfamiliar with the field get the impression those things are super mainstream and go try it. Sure, they need to be good to stick, but...
And in some cases of TS, that was happening long before it was good (back when the type system sucked, ES6 support was abysmal, etc). Then it got a huge following, and then it got good. That type of behavior make communities pretty toxic.
Of course, we're all only humans, and marketing is often more important than quality.
Could you please elaborate?
That's much more than I've seen from most other people raising money on Patreon
Quite apart from many other projects that have a hello world / tutorial and autogenerated API docs and think that's enough.
Java (even with Thymeleaf templates), PHP, Node, and just straight HTML. Because of the many different ways you can integrate it into your project you don't have to start out with the intention of making the entire front end with Vue, and you don't have to build a huge SPA. You can simply integrate it view by view if you want, which was magical when I was slowly updating the front end of a crusty old WebApp built a long time ago.
I know both frameworks differ, but I see/read that more and more developers start with vue whereas those kind of posts half a year ago would have been with react instead.
Vue is amazing! Everything that's good about Angular 1 but without the embellished boilerplate. One is free to use Vue in any way one wishes, from script tag include to complex Webpack get-ups. It has a surprisingly large ecosystem of third party UI components, including a great, no-nonsense state router. But fundamentally, one is free to architect one's app as one wishes without having to spend two years learning a bunch of meta-boilerplate and build-tools-for-build-tools just to get going.
And it lets one write plain old ES6, a luxury in this age of TypeScript fascism by psychopathic ex-JBoss villains. I love it! This is the perfect MVWW compromise I've been after, as a non web developer by trade!
Thank you, Evan! Amazing work, and great documentation! Thank you, thank you! I just became a $50/mo Patreon supporter. If I ever get wealthier, I'll increase it. And I haven't even used Vue for any production work yet. But that's how much I love it! I haven't loved something this way in probably a decade and a half. Almost every hipster.js novelty that comes across HN, big and small, makes me groan. This is the first thing of its kind about which I haven't felt that way.
This is going to be a highly successful venture. I know it. Godspeed!
Also, Angular 2 claims to be TS vs. ES6 agnostic, but practically, all documentation and resources are TS-orientated. That's more what I meant by fascism.
As far as the language premiums offered by TS: if I otherwise had to write ES5, I could see the value. With all the improvements offered by ES6—sure, type safety is not among them, but alas—I don't see any reason to use TS.
Sure, fast turnaround is good. Being able to maintain and refactor what you made a year later is even better. I'm currently refactoring an app that has ~30k sloc TypeScript, and doing it without types would be a lot worse.
However, my app is not built in Angular, so my experience here may be quite different.
But that's no reason to force its use as a precondition of using a notionally JS framework.
Yeah, it has structural typing, some type inference and pinky swearing type guards. It is better in those regards. But you still don't get very far without annotations. C# had inference for anonymous objects and return values too, and TypeScript is only a little further ahead on that one.
Though the main problem with TS is how it actually gets used. You certainly CAN do java-like garbage with it, and god do people do. If you're not stuck with people doing that, it's not half bad.
Flow is my favorite too, i much prefer its type system, but its no surprise its "losing".
Yes, yes, I know—it's (2.x) a superset of ES6. But just you try writing Angular 2 code in such "ES6". No, you have to play ball with generics and the full gamut of Java features.
I am avoiding Angular entirely (I'm not a fan of the "and the kitchen sink" approach it promotes), so I can't comment if they're taking TS too far.
you probably don't see that phrase in their marketing materials.
> In truth the boot is probably on the other foot.
Please don't stoop to personal attack, even in response to a bad comment. It just makes the thread worse.
And I'm happy to take alternate suggestions for what to call the Angular 2 "user experience".
I'd rather impale myself on Spring and Hibernate2. 10,000 lines of malignant Maven and Ant XML tumour seem like a cakewalk by comparison.
"Breaking changes" is a euphemism. These are 2 completely different frameworks that only share a name, nothing more. Both versions share 0 API.
I don't have any concrete example of Vue.js + JSX + TypeScript but I know it's a bit tricky, see this thread: https://forum.vuejs.org/t/vue-2-0-and-tsx/308/8
With an ad strategy, he would make a good money, at least double his current earning. I'd think about it.
We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13273641 and marked it off-topic.