I'm type 1. I used to believe artificial sweeteners caused the body to raise its blood sugar because the drink is perceived to be sweet, but when I got a CGM I was able to verify that they do not. I'd be interested in a switched label test with CGMs and T1s because a potential insulin response would be absent.
I realize this study is qualified (type 2, preprandial < 200mgdl, lab setting, fake labels, short term) and laud the potential connection between stress and elevated fasting glucose (seems similar to the connection between sleep and elevated glucose.) I've read the study and am just adding a personal anecdote to the thread.
> artificial sweeteners caused the body to raise its blood sugar because the drink is perceived to be sweet
This is subtly different from the effects claimed by the study, namely that blood sugar can change simply due to the test subject believing that a drink has high sugar content.
Substances other than sugar can affect the sugar balance.
This is why dogs can die from hypoglycemic shock if they consume xylitol. Their body is fooled into thinking its sugar, and the insulin response then evacuates the actual sugar from their bloodstream.
That's pretty interesting. Is it due to the taste, i.e. can it be replicated with any non-caloric or low-calorie sweetener, or is it an effect specific to xylitol (or sugar alcohols in general)?
Yes, which suggests a stress connection. Xylitol in dogs is a unique, (sadly) predictable toxicology, like their reaction to chocolate, and is more like what the human reaction to drinking artificial sweeteners would be, if humans had a similar vulnerability.
I’m not diabetic, but I’m using a CGM for a few weeks, out of curiosity.
My only surprising finding was that diet sodas don’t spike my glucose, but they do crash it, probably because my insulin response is triggered by perceived sweetness.
I thought this was common knowledge. Late 80s, my bro tech'd for his prof, who was researching artificial sweeteners, esp aspartame. He told me a burger w/ diet coke was worse than normal coke, because the excess insulin produced will then metabolize whatever useful protein is found into fat. He also said the fake sugars were more addictive, which I totally believe.
No it's far from common knowledge, if the way you find out is through some university professor.
My understanding is / was that fake sugars do not have response and do not cause you to get fat, while you've demonstrated there is an insulin response which is pretty major.
Now I have to figure out another way to deal with the bitterness of coffee other than my current 2 packets of stevia method.
If you're using a sweetener to cut the bitterness (rather than to add sweetness), then you may enjoy cold-brewed coffee. Cold water is far less effective than hot water at extracting tannins from coffee grounds, which are the primary source of the bitterness in coffee. So cold-brewed coffee tends to be naturally less bitter, as a result.
Bonus points in that it's less acidic, as well. And in case anyone else is as oblivious as I originally was, "cold-brewed" doesn't actually have to equate to cold coffee. You end up with a coffee concentrate, which you dilute with water to preference (taste, caffeine content, etc). You can dilute a cup with boiling water to get a hot cup of (non-bitter) coffee just as easily as you can dilute it with ice water for a cold, ice coffee.
This is a very common way to take coffee in New Orleans. If you're considering this method, Cool Brew sells containers that are perfect to store the concentrated coffee. This is how my family has stored their cold brew since I was a kid.
Trade sugar for good cream. Skip the fake dairy crap like soy/oat/etc. Find a creamy half and half or even heavy cream cut with half and half. A little goes a long way. I put two tablespoons in a 30oz travel cup.
I live in the northeast and find the Aldi brand heavy cream is fabulous and cheap. It is processed at ultra dairy in Syracuse, NY, shop around for a brand you like, but use the plant codes on the box to figure out who makes it — each dairy is different.
Surprising myself, as a long time breve partisan and hater of all things coconut, I've fallen hard for heavy coconut cream and now homemade oatmeal milk.
I started making oatmeal "cream" at home as base for my smoothies. (Two birds, one stone.) Put oats, chia, honey, banana, water in vitamix. Frappe a bit. Walk the dog (about an hour). Voila, oatmeal cream. Then add the other ingredients as normal.
Dr Google says the enzymes break down the oatmeal. I have no idea how or why.
Love the oatmeal smoothie base — my wife and I do something similar but substitute strawberry or blueberry for the honey.
The only issue with it as a cream substitute for me is that it’s heavy sugar. After not sweetening coffee, I find the cream complements the coffee flavor. Like all things, ymmv :)
Reading this comment thread from the top, for a moment I thought you were using this oatmeal cream for coffee. Do you? How do you make oatmeal milk (steps, duration, etc.) and what do you use it for? I’m looking for variations that people adopt and how they fare.
Cream in coffee is proof God loves us. Half & half, milk, coconut cream are okay. Almond milk and oat milk are terrible. Soy milk is a crime.
I also use a lot of cinnamon, because I once read it does something for glycemic response. And I've grown to like it. Ditto turmeric.
Soy milk and Yerba mate is pretty good. Soy milk steamers (fresh ginger, cinnamon, nutmeg) are delicious.
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From my brief googling, I understand that oat milk needs an enzyme. That's what Oatly does. You can buy some enzyme packets for home use, which I've never done.
I've read that honey and bananas also have an enzyme that works on oats. I already use both in my smoothies, so that's what I do.
Also, most howtos I've read say to filter the bulk. But I want the dietary fiber, the more the better, so don't filter.
I also use chia seeds, which makes the oat milk creamy like yoghurt. Someone smarter than me will replicate what I do, add misc tasty fruit, freeze it, and call it vegan ice cream.
> Now I have to figure out another way to deal with the bitterness of coffee other than my current 2 packets of stevia method.
Add a bit of salt to the grinds before you brew the coffee. Alternatively, try different coffee. I find lighter roasts taste better, and cheap coffee is just bad coffee. I used to take creamer in my coffee regularly, but since I've been buying better coffee, I've stopped buying creamer.
A solution (ha!) to that is to make good coffee. Seriously.
I always liked the smell of coffee but never drank it since it made my heart race and it never tasted like it smelled.
Now with a cheap burr grinder, a French press, a scale, and coffee beans I make great coffee. I grind the beans coarse which is for the French press method. My formula is 30g ground coffee per 450g of water, brew for 5 minutes.
It's amazing how cheap coffee beans can taste great. Hints of chocolate, caramel, a toasty note.
If it's too bitter you brew too much or the grind was too fine. If it's too sour or ashy tasting it wasn't brewed long enough (seems counter intuitive I know!).
I've gone from sugary, milk or cream loaded coffee to just black. Anything in the coffee now ruins it for me.
edit: related to all this talk of coffee and insulin coffee guru James Hoffman did a test of coffee and insulin. He used a continuous glucose monitoring (CGM) device to measure his own metabolism.
>Now I have to figure out another way to deal with the bitterness of coffee other than my current 2 packets of stevia method.
Cold brew is much less bitter than hot brew also it varies in coffee type and roast, with time you get accustomed to the taste, to me sweet coffee tastes weird.
> with time you get accustomed to the taste, to me sweet coffee tastes weird.
Yes, sugar in coffee tastes disgusting to me. Coffee is supposed to be bitter.
I think part of the reason why – my mother has always been very health-conscious (she is a doctor), and growing up she didn't allow us to have sugar in tea or coffee. She would hide the sugar at the back of the pantry, she'd bring it out when guests came over but then it would disappear again as soon as they left. And she only ever bought reduced fat milk. So make me a coffee with full cream milk and sugar, and it just tastes wrong.
Not sure what coffee you are consuming. But if you are making it yourself - hopefully you can find a local coffee roaster. Any semi-good Arabica is not bitter (but it can be more on the acidic side)
Well. It's been 30+ years. Meta: It's weird when you assume some arcane tidbit you know is widely known. Been struggling with that my entire life / career.
Now I'm gonna ask my bro, doctor, and nutritionist bestie, make sure I remember correctly. IIRC, insulin response for Type 1 and Type 2 are totally different. So advice does not transfer. (My bestie is a severe Type 1. They get upset about generalizations. Stuff that works for Type 2 is life threatening for them.)
Did you know it was diet? Given this article and some of the linked research, it seems like even incorrect knowledge of the caloric content has effects on the system. Would be cool to blind yourself to it and analyze the results of caloric vs diet soda.
I use to have the same problem. I met my wife who preferred diet and eventually transitioned to diet pretty much entirely without getting that sugar issue.
I do have a problem with aspartame. Diet Pepsi is okay, but diet Coke is not.
I have a friend who is a doctor. He was using it himself & offered to write me an Rx.
I’m now doing it a second time, using the levels health app [0]. If you can make it to the front of their massive waiting list (and don’t mind paying their fee), it’s the easiest way to get one.
It wasn’t covered by insurance, but the Freestyle Libre CGM was $37 at CVS & lasts for 2 weeks. The major cost factor (for most people) is getting a doctor to write you an Rx.
Levels is around $400, but all you have to do is fill out a form online & wait. They get a doctor to evaluate your profile & write an Rx, and then they fill the prescription & send it to you with patches & everything. Their app also does more data analysis than the default Libre app, and it puts the food-log directly on the glucose graph, which is surprisingly useful.
I could be wrong, but it seems like there's a distinction between perceived sugar (amount of sugar in drink) as mentioned in the study and perceived sweetness (how sweet the drink tastes) which is what you're referring to.
You’re right. I tried to make my disclaimer thorough enough. :)
However, unless there’s something particular about the visual vs. the taste path, there should be some overlap. I think the anticipation (stress) is the part of this study with the most interesting implications to me.
I’ve done a certain amount of research around GI due to my wife twice having gestational diabetes, and it was hard to find good numbers in general, but I couldn’t find any numbers related to artificial sweetners. I did find a lot of people claiming artificial sweetners didn’t cause a rise in glucose, which makes sense because the only way to get glucose would be for the liver to release glucose as a response. What I don’t know definitely is whether or not artificial sweetners cause an insulin response (though there seems to he a growing body of evidence that some do cause the pancreas to produce insulin). There also seems to be a growing body of evidence that artificial sweeteners cause gut bacterial changes ( which, as I write this, makes me wonder if my current gastro intestinal drama might be related to a recent reintroduction of diet soda in my diet...).
I will say as an anecdote, that I find intermittent fasting (skipping breakfast and late lunch) much easier when I have diet soda than when I have tea with sugar in the morning.
This. Kind of, since I just don't drink any soda but I still find that skipping breakfast and having late lunch (or dinner only) is much easier if I didn't have carbs for breakfast. Coffee and a waffle with syrup will make me hungry by lunch. Coffee only or with butter/coconut oil means no hunger until much later.
It's like the body "knows" there must be more carbs out there if you recently had some and wants more. If there were no carbs it "assumes" there aren't more so if no extra food is added (we ate all the mammoth meat yesterday and now we gotta go hunt first) I'll just use up the fat stores.
(Speculation) I believe it has more to do with the psychological effect of "knowing" beforehand that you are about to consume a high amount of sugar.
In the case of artificial sweeteners you know it's going to be sweet, yes, but you also already know that it is not real sugar and you are somehow "safe", and so, the stress involved is diminished.
I realize this study is qualified (type 2, preprandial < 200mgdl, lab setting, fake labels, short term) and laud the potential connection between stress and elevated fasting glucose (seems similar to the connection between sleep and elevated glucose.) I've read the study and am just adding a personal anecdote to the thread.