> and nearly as varied in customs, socioeconomics, and population as Europe. You can even stretch that to language in some parts of the USA. Try and get around South Miami without at least a smattering of Spanish language ability.
In my rural county in England we have something like 120 different languages spoken by people as their first language.
Some of those are from historic ties to England - such as some of the Indian languages, with languages merging into English. (Pyjama, Bungalow, Juggernaut etc etc).
> I think people forget that this nation is constantly under some form of "attack" by groups (nation-state and otherwise)
Really? How many mainland terrorist attacks have you had? Because Europe has had a wide range of different separatist, leftist, anarchist, right-wing, etc groups setting off bombs and killing people.
EDIT: you can still go from dirt-floor poor (not an exaggeration) to billionaire in the span of a single lifetime.
Yes, I can go and buy a lottery ticket and win millions with a 1 in 14 million chance. The truth is that we could walk into a maternity ward in the US and predict with reasonable accuracy the children who will be poor and on drugs or in prison, and the children who will not be poor.
I think you're deliberately misunderstanding me. And that's fine. I'm definitely detecting a bunch of do-as-I-say type of sentiment.
But my mother fled a country (her European home country and the country of her birth) that tried to kill her and every one like her. SO...please pardon me if I don't agree to entertain your Europe is oh-so-much-better than the US diatribe. If one persons difficult experience can indict a whole country of 300m people, well...what's good for the goose is good for the gander.
"pardon me if I don't agree to entertain your Europe is oh-so-much-better than the US diatribe"
Read the words again. None of DanBC's comments can be construed as a belief that Europe (or anywhere else) is better than the USA. If Europe has more languages than the US, for example, then that doesn't make Europe better in any meaningful sense. What (it seems to me) he's saying is that the US is less special and unique than you might think. Not less special to you, but less special on an objective, global scale.
From my point of view (British, European), belief in American Exceptionalism has always seemed a little deluded. Many countries around the world have democracy, wealth creation, etc. Many of them are trying to improve (though maybe not "perfect") their society. On the whole, though, they just don't make so much noise about it.
Uh huh. I love the British people. Really. Lived half a year in London and worked down in Mayfair back in the 90's.
But I'll admit that I found the fact that the UK has no Constitutionally guaranteed right to free speech a shock. And I'd wager that any American would find your system of ASBOs to be downright Orwellian.
Speaking of Orwell, you folks have had government surveillance on a scale unheard of in the USA for decades now. How's that working out? Wasn't there a near-simultaneous bus bombing in a heavily patrolled and videoed area?
My point is this: I find the constant US bashing that occurs on HN to be nasty and misplaced. Don't like my country? Great. Don't come here. Don't use US products. Don't use US services. Don't contribute financially to the US. I'm totally cool with it.
The mere fact that we have a torrent of immigration applications only demonstrates that despite the nasty border guards, the crazy laws, and the weird politics, that we still remain one of the best places to live a life. We're not perfect; we're just better in a lot of ways that matter to people.
America is a big place. So is Europe. Everybody has something to be ashamed of. Nobody is perfect. National and regional virtues and vices are intrinsically multidimensional, and do not reduce to a single meritocratic scale. Is America "better" than Europe. Bottom. The question makes no sense, because the notion of "better" or "worse" does not apply.
I am from the UK.
Through time, both historically and more recently, my fellow countrymen have engaged in any number of ethically horrendous actions that disgust and offend my sense of what is right and proper. I don't want to be caught defending the concentration camps in 1950's Kenya. I don't want to be caught defending the (recent) off-hand murder of unarmed prisoners-of-war in Afghanistan.
By the same token, I am imperfect too. I don't want to be caught defending some of the things that I have done and said in the past.
There is no sense of righteousness driving this, just a generalised sense that the world is a slovenly place, and that leading a good, moral, conscientious life is beyond the abilities of most of us.
We all have a responsibility, as fellow human-beings, to support each other in our efforts to improve our world (no matter how futile those efforts might appear to be).
You've said that the US is as varied as Europe. You said that we can stretch that to languages. You gave an example of needing to speak Spanish to get around some parts of the US.
Spain itself has Spanish, Catalan, Galician, and Basque. Sure, you can probably just use Spanish. But about 15% of the Spanish population - living in Spain for generations - don't speak Spanish as a first language.
None if this is about which country / continent is "better".
"But my mother fled a country (her European home country and the country of her birth) that tried to kill her and every one like her."
Bad things happen, US has its own sins with wiped-out indigenous populations. The idea is to correct ourselves and to make things better. Apologetic attitudes aren't helpful in this regard.
BTW, which is that European country if you don't mind?
Nazi Germany. My mother was born during the Third Reich. Just lucky I guess.
BTW, my bartender is Croatian. Ask him how he feels about Europe. IN fact, ask anyone who's had a chance to see what the USA is really like and compare it to their home country. I know a certain Italian grad student who is so desperate to stay here he's on his SECOND Ph.D. I visited Italy and it seems nice, but apparently he places a high premium on being able to earn an actual living that he'd rather stay here.
I've had a chance to see the US. From NY to LA, Mississippi and Denver to Hawaii and Alaska. And I am never going back to live there.
And I am an American. I used to be so proud of my country that I even quit working in IT for a few years to join the military (US Air Force). People would ask each other 'Why did you join?' the normal answer being healthcare or university. When they asked me I would just say 'America has been pretty good to me, I wanted to pay back the favor' Nobody quite knew what to make of this as I spent most half of my life growing up around the world (mainly Europe) and my father's side of my family is Cherokee Indian and black.
The US now (since 9/11 basically) is a shadow of what it used to be. Reading headlines about American government actions is like reading about the good ol' USSR back in the 70s and 80s. Except in the 80s Europe tore down a wall, whilst nowadays the US is building walls (both literally and policy wise)
It's a good thing your mother didnt have to try and enter the America of today to escape persecution. She'd probably be turned away at the border.
40 European languages: http://www.bbc.co.uk/languages/european_languages/languages/...
(That's just for starters.)
In my rural county in England we have something like 120 different languages spoken by people as their first language.
Some of those are from historic ties to England - such as some of the Indian languages, with languages merging into English. (Pyjama, Bungalow, Juggernaut etc etc).
> I think people forget that this nation is constantly under some form of "attack" by groups (nation-state and otherwise)
Really? How many mainland terrorist attacks have you had? Because Europe has had a wide range of different separatist, leftist, anarchist, right-wing, etc groups setting off bombs and killing people.
EDIT: you can still go from dirt-floor poor (not an exaggeration) to billionaire in the span of a single lifetime.
Yes, I can go and buy a lottery ticket and win millions with a 1 in 14 million chance. The truth is that we could walk into a maternity ward in the US and predict with reasonable accuracy the children who will be poor and on drugs or in prison, and the children who will not be poor.