Ask HN: My father is so obese he'll likely die from a heart attack this year

[DYZT]

This is not a a technical or technological question but I need advice.

My 60+ year old father is obese, he's over worked (works close to 15 hours a day for many many years), sleeps very little and lately started suffering from pains in his chest. The doctor said he doesn't think he'll last it until the end of the year. He said it 6 months ago.

Today he's been submitted to hospital suffering from mild pains in his chest. The doctors checked him and everything seemed to be alright. He didn't agree to stay for examination over the night and left a few hours after the tests results arrived.

My father is very intelligent, he's hard working and has a very strong will. Non the less he isn't willing to do anything active to lose weight. He's been dieting this last half a year. He hasn't gained weight but hasn't lost anything either.

He won't go to a dietitian, won't do sport.

What can I do (I'm 25) to get him to take this thing seriously. How can I help him to lose weight? Each time I raise the issue he treats it as though it doesn't exist.

Any advice is welcome, thank you.

[epc]

Confront him bluntly with discussion about burial details and his will. Ask if he would record a message to his grandchildren he'll never see. Ask about his living will, does he want to be on life support? How about if he is brain dead?

Sorry to be so blunt, I went through something like this with my father. He refused to change his ways until he had a massive MI resulting in a heart bypass which he never fully recovered from, dying at 57 (I was 30 at the time of the MI and CTO of ibm.com).

To fully change he needs the support of the family, but he needs to accept the need to change. Without that you will just frustrate yourself and your family.

[beat → epc]

Yes, exactly. The living will conversation. It may not change his ways, but it'll make him respect how you feel about it, hopefully.

For me, it was 2009, the year everyone died. I lost so many friends and family, and so many of my friends lost friends and family, I couldn't even count them all. My bandmate in particular struggled with a father who had been a lifelong hermit, and was utterly uncooperative in his own care. He had no will, and my bandmate was the sole heir of a house that had been in the family for generations (since the 1850s). It was a legal mess waiting to happen. Meanwhile, I lost another bandmate, just a few years older than me, to cancer, and lost a friend of 15 years to suicide. Terrible, terrible year.

This led me to a conversation with my children, who were 15 at the time. I told them that if I ever get to where I can't take care of myself and their mother can't take care of me for whatever reason, that they should do whatever it takes to take care of me. Take away my car, take over my finances, put me in a nursing home, whatever. I warned them that I'll tell them not to do those things then. They shouldn't listen to me then, because I'll be senile!

But seriously, parents may not do what is best for their children, but they can at least care that that's their choice.

[ScottWhigham]

What can I do (I'm 25) to get him to take this thing seriously.

I struggled with this with both my parents (one a smoker, one obese). I talked to both until it became a strain on our relationship (both were younger than yours is now though - they were maybe 48ish when I was 25). In the end, my mom just flat out told me that she knew it would kill her but that her parents died young and that's just okay with her. How do you respond to that? This is an intelligent woman - a professional DBA for 10+ years and an IT manager for another 15) - yet she is superstitious without cause ("My parents died early so that must mean I will too no matter what I do").

In the end I opted to just live and let live - no more preaching, no more "Are you kidding? You can't eat that! You're already 280 pounds!". I don't know what else I could do - I can't make them do the right thing and they know the "right thing" but willfully ignore it. It's frustrating, sure, but I enjoy the time I have with them. I ultimately chalked it up to "personal weakness" - my dad would sabotage his diets and avoid actual health knowledge in favor of fad diets, and my mom just didn't want to work that hard to quit smoking.

Bottom line: he made the life choices of the past 20+ years with full knowledge of what might/will happen.

[lukevdp]

Spend time with him and savor being around him. We all die eventually, it's what we do with the time we have that counts. My advice would just be to do the things to ensure you won't live with regrets in the future.

[Choronzon]

If he wont listen to you effectively nothing. I know this is not the answer you want to hear but you can only help people who help themselves. He sounds like he is in nowhere near the shape required for any kind of sport but an hour or two walking a day would be excellent workout. If the diet is failing then quality of food is probably an issue,high quality vegetables and meat/fish cooked simply (no sauces ),no vegetable oils,minimal milk and bread products.The more boring and tasteless the better.

You can consider a low carb diet as well(provided its clean),humans are normally perfectly adapted to eat carbohydrates but he might find it easier if he has problems with insulin regulation. And he should stop working already,time for health related retirement.

[_vn5r]

I'm 25 too. My father died in January, it was almost the same story. He was not obese, but had heart issues, and the doctors had told him 2012 would be his last year. And he kept that from us.

Even 15 seconds before dying, he told me it was just asthma bothering. (While being in ICU).

The first thing that called my attention was that when I logged into his computer to close his facebook and etc, the computer was clean. He had removed every password, cache, social media app. And he removed them 1 hour before going to the hospital.

What I'm trying to say is, that sometimes people just wants to let go. And maybe, sometimes, we should just be with them, and say how much we love them.

[DYZT]

After a sleepless night, I think I've come up with a multi stage plan to help lose the extra weight, until he's out of the danger weight zone (he doesn't have to be slim, just not obese). Would love some advice:

Conduct several changes to effect his lifestyle and make it healthier

1. Disconnect the TV and get the 3 seat sofa of the the living room. This way he won't fall asleep in front of the TV. This will help him with regular sleep.

2. Not buy unhealthy food. Sign up for a service providing fresh salads each day. Put a salad in his car. For him to always have a healthy alternative that's easier to obtain than other fatting alternatives.

3. Blocks his drive way with wood a metal. Should make him look for parking that atleast 15 mins away from home. 15 mins in each direction is a 30 min daily walk. Force him for some exercise.

4. Fill the house with scales. In every room. Scales that can support his weight. For him not to avoid it.

5. Define together with him his weight target. Find a dietitian willing to come to our house at 9 pm when he finishes working to help him estimate his progress.

6. Getting his brother involved. He appreciates his older brother and enjoys talking to him. Ask for his brother to come over once a week and go walking with him (he lives near by).

7. He also has a very good friend from work (they've been working together for 35 years or more). Not sure how he can effectively help though. Ideas?

8. I Built up a weekly table, each of the family members (we're a few brothers married with or with girlfriends, and I've got a healthy mother). In each hour or two someone else needs to phone him to ask him how's his day / diet going and what he's had to eat today. When he's coming home and when he's going walking.

Any other ideas will be greatly appreciated. Thanks

[BlackJack → DYZT]

You should try to understand what he eats and why. Is it just a lot of junk food? He might not be feeling full, because fast food is not very satiating. Try adding more protein and fat in his diet and reducing carbohydrates. I'm not saying a ketogenic diet - just changing the proportions a bit to see if he feels fuller.

You can try to help all you want but he's a grown man and will have to decide by himself. Show that he can eat yummy things that will keep him full - as long as he has a caloric deficit, he will lose weight. Eating salads all day won't satisfy anybody. Try eating meals with him.

Good luck!

[castlerobot → DYZT]

I would try to figure out what's stopping him from getting help; it could be that he's avoiding the issue because deep down he's ashamed of his appearance/health/etc and feels like he's letting everyone/himself down.

If that's the case, some of your ideas might cause even more shame and push him in the opposite direction you're intending.

Instead of just singling him out and isolating him as an object of shame, make healthy living an activity the whole family's involved in. Track everyone's weight loss in percentages like Biggest Loser, get everyone in the family committed to trying healthy recipes, center your get-togethers around healthy eating and family activities that everyone can enjoy. If everyone else is committed to it, he won't feel so alone and like you're trying to punish him.

[DanielBMarkham → DYZT]

You really need to come to a decision about whether you are friends with your dad or not.

Sounds weird, but friends stay friends even when one of them does something to hurt themselves. It just makes them sad. I can't stress enough to you how important it is that you make peace with this. It's your dad's life. He may chose to die this way. If so, respect that choice.

Having said that, something you might want to consider is a CPAP. Most severely overweight people have difficulty breathing at night. This difficultly is actually very difficult on their heart. Doing a sleep study and getting his sleep straightened out could lead to weight loss. It has in many people. If nothing else, it would drastically cut down on the stress is heart could be going through every night.

[dirtyaura → DYZT]

Just from my anectodal experience, low carb diets seem to be easier to follow for people who like meat: fats and proteins are something that many people from older generations consider "real" good food. Also eating lots of carbs is sp much easier than eating lots of proteins and fats, that it's simple to reduce your caloric intake by reducing carbs.

if your dad enjoys numbers, wifi scales like Fitbit Aria can make it much effortless to track weight and not be de-motivated by natural daily variations in your weight.

[epc → DYZT]

I still think you should have the blunt conversation with him, but perhaps use that as an opening to "let me help you manage this process" and pick one or two changes to start with. Too much change at once == massive resistance. Small changes may seem like they don't have much impact, can build up over time.

Can you take a 30 minute walk with him every day? Every couple of days?

[teyc]

Is your father still working? What's his height and weight?

If he has high intelligence, then don't bother prescribing him what to do. You only need to pitch and convince him that hitting a certain BMI is a necessary business outcome. Some men are hunters, not farmers. They need something to chase, not just hang around and tending gardens.

Exercise has been not shown to contribute much to weight loss. On the other hand, lack of sleep has been associated with weight gain.

Ask your father to consider replacing soda with water. It's magic for most people. The first few days, water will taste terrible. If he can't stand it, make a spritz by adding fresh lemons. Buy a set of scales because he will definitely see the results of this one small change. Also, drink more water. It helps cut down the appetite.

[giardini]

Accept and implement what ScottWhigham and epc have posted. Don't try to control something that you can't: he's over 60, has lived a long life and may not see much reason to continue.

Meanwhile, if he wants to try, I recommend "playing to his strengths". Likely some of the largest muscles in his body are in his legs (obese persons often have incredibly strong legs that can burn lots of fat) and if he simply begins walking then it's the best first step to a cure.

Offer incentives if necessary: take him to parks, malls, museums or wherever he might enjoy a change of scenery while walking. Someplace with lots of young women usually perks up the older guys. Of course if he went to a gym that would be great, but I wouldn't buy a gym membership yet.

[huxley]

It might be worthwhile finding out if your dad is suffering from panic attacks (I can testify that it can give you pretty freaky symptoms). It might also explain some other things like the 15 hour work day and even contribute towards his weight issues.

There are no advantages to fighting with your father if you are worried about him dying this year. His health problems didn't start yesterday, so any change will take time and effort.

Helping him get regular sleep may be the easiest first thing to begin. Lots of good things to try to help with sleep including limiting exposure to blue light.

Having a friend who he can buddy up with might make light exercise easier. It will probably feel like criticism and nagging if it comes from you and your family, but if it comes from a peer (who also needs some exercise) it might be easier to take. If he is very overweight and there concerns with his heart, jumping into heavy exercise is probably not a great idea (nor realistic).

My dad was a 2-3 pack a day smoker for most of his life. I don't actually regret the fact that I didn't get him to quit sooner(though I tried), I regret that I didn't spend more fun moments with him (which we did have, but not enough). Find the things he likes doing and see if you can do some together. If he is happier and enjoying his life more, it might give him the motivation to change things.

[krob]

Well, to be honest. I think it's all about the guilt trip. Guilt-tripping people usually has this way of making them obligated to do stuff, atleast for me. So guilt-trip the hell out of your mom & dad. Let them know that they won't live to see your future children/their grandchildren. That you want to see them learn from their grannies. Or a good kick in the ass might help?.. Basically you need something to kick these people into high gear. Find out what scares the daylights out of them, and do that, something to put them in a different mental state.

I know how you feel btw. My dad was brilliant, but he was very set in his way because he felt he knew everything.

[waivej]

I hope this helps. Eating and working too much can be addictive and I don't think you'll be able to force him to change. Maybe try connecting and maybe learning some of his personal dreams. Real change has to come from him, but maybe you could gently establish a keystone habit that others can build from. "The Power of Habit" is a good book/audiobook that talks a bit about this in the first chapters.

On the other hand, it's hard to accept, but maybe just try to connect while you can.

[genwin]

Suggest he take a walk with you. If he does, keep it up. If he won't even take a walk with you it's probably hopeless, sorry to say. I went through such with my father.

[DYZT → genwin]

he will very rarely agree to take walks with anyone

[savorypiano]

Try spending time with him and suggest walking whenever you can, like when you are going to the store. That way it's not just exercise. My gf got her cousin to lose 30 lbs or so over the course of a year.

The hardest part about exercise is getting over the hurdle to actually go do it. Having a partner makes it much easier. Even if I am fit I have a very hard time just going to a gym - I have to go play a sport.

[codemonkeymike]

When you are younger you have more power over your parents. Like when I was in my early teens, I was able to guilt my mother out of smoking and drinking. If it was today (Now I am 21 and moved out of my house) I believe I would be much less successful. My thoughts, make your father feel like you need him for support.

[DYZT → codemonkeymike]

fantastic. Thanks for this

[jfoster]

Careful not to spoil your relationship with him over it. Try to have some serious conversations with him about it. Unless he is bought into your plan, it might be impossible to do anything about. People have a hard enough time losing weight when they are actively trying to.