First, I disagree with the premise anecdotally: most girls I find attractive are smart.
Second, I don't agree that the relationship between nerds and popularity is isomorphic to the relationship between intelligent women and attractiveness. Nerds, practically by definition are not popular; the same is decidedly not true for smart women and being attractive. Additionally, popularity is typically an extrinsic measure, relative to your peers (i.e. it wouldn't make sense for everyone in your high school to be considered one of the popular kids) while attractiveness is an intrinsic measure (in theory, everyone in your high school could be considered attractive).
Moreover, I disagree with the conclusion in both directions. It's not clear that being smart is a cause/excuse for being unattractive nor is it clear that being attractive is some sort of excuse for being unintelligent.
Finally, I disagree with the idea on principle. I don't think adult men or women should get into the habit of blaming their intelligence for their supposed unpopularity or unattractiveness. A lot of smart people (understandably) used that as a coping mechanism for teen angst in high school, but by adulthood it's about time to let go of that sort of destructive, zero-sum approach to life.
I think it's abhorrent to tell smart kids being anti-social in general or smart girls rejecting their femininity in particular that their behavior is some sort of badge of honor. It's not. It's not good, it's not bad, it just is.
The older I get, the more I understand that intelligence is a multi-dimensional thing. There are many types of intelligence. If you're great at math but you can't write, are you smarter than your neighbor who's a brilliant essayist but can't calculate an eigenvector? And where does the person fit who can magnificently work a room but is only average at writing and math? Intelligence isn't an axis, it's a plane, er, multi-dimensional surface.
If there's something you'd like to change about yourself, change it. If you're happy with yourself as you are, even better. People should accept themselves, flaws and strengths alike, but I'd hate to see people going around muttering under their breaths that more popular, better dressed, or better made-up peers are only that way because they lack intelligence. That's a pretty juvenile conceit, to be honest. And I'd like to think we're all too smart to fall for that sort of self-deception for very long.
I find this true (as true as things relating to society can be true).
It takes work to be beautiful. I could straighten my hair every time I get out of the shower, dye and pluck my eyebrows every other week, keep my roots dyed monthly, devote 20 minutes to make-up daily, keep my nails in shape, take better care of my skin, tan, shave often, and tone my abs. Frankly, I don't have the time or motivation. Why bother when I could read, code, or do a million other interesting things?
There are a few women who don't have to do as much to be beautiful - I was always envious of people with dark complexions and straight hair for this reason. But for most people, it does take time. It's not something that just is. Nearly anyone can look wonderful with the right lighting, clothing and make-up, and vice-versa.
Also, I've never met anyone who admitted to being attracted to morons, yet many are. People think highly of attractive people whether or not it's warranted.
I think there is a subtle semantic difference between "attractive" and "popular" that means they can't readily be substituted for each other in the text of Paul Graham's essay.
<i>First, I disagree with the premise anecdotally: most girls I find attractive are smart.</i>
This is the typical nerd male response. It's all about you :P In reality social pressure comes from so many sources.
<i>popularity is typically an extrinsic measure, relative to your peers (i.e. it wouldn't make sense for everyone in your high school to be considered one of the popular kids) while attractiveness is an intrinsic measure </i>
The whole point of my piece was that we are told attractiveness is an intrinsic measure whereas, in many ways for women, it is much more arbitrary and akin to popularity. Women in the states above all want to be thin. But if we can invent a pill tomorrow that will make everybody thin, is everyone suddenly going to be hot? For a while maybe, but soon a new arbitrary standard that excludes the majority of the population will emerge.
<i> clear that being smart is a cause/excuse for being unattractive </i>
My other main point is that being a conventionally attractive woman is hard work! Think about it this way...Katherine Heigl had to lose 10 pounds to play opposite Seth Rogan in Knocked Up.
<i>I think it's abhorrent to tell smart kids being anti-social in general or smart girls rejecting their femininity in particular that their behavior is some sort of badge of honor.</i>
I'm a girly-girl. There's nothing I love more than to put on some makeup and look hot at a party. There's a difference between enjoying something when it's fun for you and having it be an obligation.
<i>If there's something you'd like to change about yourself, change it. If you're happy with yourself as you are, even better. People should accept themselves, flaws and strengths alike, </i>
That is exactly as I would like the world to be. But right now, if you are a woman and you don't diet and you don't wear makeup and you don't spend a lot of money on grooming products and cloths and frankly a lot of other bullshit guys don't even know...you are at a distinct disadvantage. I'm just a regular girl who is tired of the bullshit. I haven't cut back on personal hygiene or anything. But I will not go on a diet or obsess about my weight unless it is for health reasons. I haven't read a fashion magazine for year, and while I do have nice cloths for special occasions, my wardrobe and spending on beauty is a fraction that of my peers.
Lets put it this way. I think of myself (I wrote the piece) as quite attractive to a lot of people...but with the exception of America Ferrera in Ugly Betty, there is no female character in the movies or on TV who is my size or larger and gets the guys.
It's a message that society sends...you are not attractive enough if you are not super-groomed, super-thin. As I get older, I am getting better at resisting this message.
there is no female character in the movies or on TV who is my size or larger and gets the guys
Hollywood sucks for this sort of thing. There's a very small group of people who have way too much sway over what society thinks attractive girls, smart people, black people, liberals, conservatives, et al look like. It's pretty damaging.
I have found it to be less damaging as I grow older and got more confidence in myself. But kids, they're stupid and they believe what they see on the TeeVee machine is a reflection of life.
I generally agreed with the article and see strong parallels with pg's original article.
I note that most of the replies so far fail the test of doing the swap in the opposite direction i.e. "I'm attracted to smart women" is the same as "nerds are popular with me" which is different from "nerds are popular", and even more so from "nerds were popular in high school".
Your post would be more interesting if you took a survey of other random girls on the street. And then see if there was a marked correlation between smart and non-smart girls and whether the essay spoke to them.
The reason I posted this on my blog is the overwhelmingly positive response it got among my peer group when it went online at a discussion board type site. Here are some of the PMs I've gotten (and one PM of two friends that one friend sent to me):
(1)
[name redacted] (1:25pm): Good heavens. This is like reading my own thoughts on someone else's plan. :)
My father never said anything about anorexia, but there were some comments in that vein.
I still don't care enough. Frankly, I hope I never have to.
(2)
[name redacted] (6:01pm): I love that Paul Graham essay. It's the first essay of his that I read, and still his best work, I think.
Your substituted version makes me think of "Adam's Curse," by W. B. Yeats:
"To be born woman is to know --
Although they do not talk of it at school --
That we must labour to be beautiful."
I think some girls decide that labor isn't worth the hassle.
(3)
[name redacted] (4:05pm): I was really heavy in high school- now I'm about the same size as you said you are. I'm so done feeling bad about my figure, because I'm perfectly normal and I happen to like food.
[me] (4:29pm): Yay!
(4)
[name redacted] (1:23pm): Go post that on news.ycombinator.com. It's surprisingly insightful, and I bet everyone there (including Paul Graham) would get a big kick out of it.
[me] (2:28pm): :) I just might
(5)
[redacted a]: the most fascinating thing, to me, is using the words of Paul Graham to talk about feminism.
[redacted a]: (from that plan)
[redacted b]: I don't know anythign about him except the nerds essay
[redacted a]: He's someone that a lot of nerd guys look up to for things like the nerds essay. A lot of nerd guys having no patience for feminism.
Note that the title of my essay is "Why smart women are unattractive"...it is taken in parallel with Paul Graham's essay "Why nerds are unpopular." Of course there are exceptions, just like there are smart kids who are also popular.
First, I disagree with the premise anecdotally: most girls I find attractive are smart.
Second, I don't agree that the relationship between nerds and popularity is isomorphic to the relationship between intelligent women and attractiveness. Nerds, practically by definition are not popular; the same is decidedly not true for smart women and being attractive. Additionally, popularity is typically an extrinsic measure, relative to your peers (i.e. it wouldn't make sense for everyone in your high school to be considered one of the popular kids) while attractiveness is an intrinsic measure (in theory, everyone in your high school could be considered attractive).
Moreover, I disagree with the conclusion in both directions. It's not clear that being smart is a cause/excuse for being unattractive nor is it clear that being attractive is some sort of excuse for being unintelligent.
Finally, I disagree with the idea on principle. I don't think adult men or women should get into the habit of blaming their intelligence for their supposed unpopularity or unattractiveness. A lot of smart people (understandably) used that as a coping mechanism for teen angst in high school, but by adulthood it's about time to let go of that sort of destructive, zero-sum approach to life.
I think it's abhorrent to tell smart kids being anti-social in general or smart girls rejecting their femininity in particular that their behavior is some sort of badge of honor. It's not. It's not good, it's not bad, it just is.
The older I get, the more I understand that intelligence is a multi-dimensional thing. There are many types of intelligence. If you're great at math but you can't write, are you smarter than your neighbor who's a brilliant essayist but can't calculate an eigenvector? And where does the person fit who can magnificently work a room but is only average at writing and math? Intelligence isn't an axis, it's a plane, er, multi-dimensional surface.
If there's something you'd like to change about yourself, change it. If you're happy with yourself as you are, even better. People should accept themselves, flaws and strengths alike, but I'd hate to see people going around muttering under their breaths that more popular, better dressed, or better made-up peers are only that way because they lack intelligence. That's a pretty juvenile conceit, to be honest. And I'd like to think we're all too smart to fall for that sort of self-deception for very long.