It also does an amazing job of taking snapshots of posts. I use it all the time to grab posts from HackerNews so I can mark them up.
And it automagically syncs everywhere across devices and lets me store way too many files on the web like the ADD packrat I am, without breaking a sweat.
In short, this software just works, and it works well.
So when somebody behind Zotero talks about how to develop software, I listen.
And it's a fun post with some history. You should save this post to Zotero, and then read it.
Unrelated, but I love when people describe software with the phrase "just works".
It suggests a certain... simplicity that I chase in all of my developments. The amount of EFFORT to get software from "works but..." is interesting. You can get something that works 99% of the time, but that never quite fits the "just works" level of quality that we love to see.
Really, there's an immediate feeling of joy I get when I interact with software that "just works" knowing how much effort it takes to get something to that point.
Like an application to book a haircut at a salon or log into the WiFi at a hotel that does something "on rails" and should work without any learning or training is one thing. A complex application for professional creative work is something else entirely.
Then there are the things that are just weird, like life got me looking at mobile games lately and I was really shocked to see how many of them have a horrific onboarding experience. The best games in the "clothes collecting" genre, for instance, like Love Nikki have a gentle onboarding process that teach you the game mechanics and get you into the story and maybe get you hooked. When I was developing consumer-facing social and entertainment apps (before Facebook!) I had my own belief that "easy onboarding is good for users and good for profits" and worked with founders who got it and pushed me to outdo myself. Most games in that genre have horrific UI and don't try to explain the mechanics because they could care less if users understand the currencies used in the system because they only care for the worst "whales" who click on any red dot and fold green at the slightest difficulty.
These days when it comes to "slow software", I think five years is an eternity from a platform perspective so if you start something you may need to rebuild it. Like I find it hard to justify developing on anything other than the web platform (like "write once and it runs on platforms you never thought of like VR headsets", "for christ's sake did you realize every Windows software vendor had at least one InstallShield engineer back in the 1990s and IT was pulling their hair out updating all their desktops?", "it took three weeks for the App Store to reject your update? what did you think would happen?") but the app I am working on right now depends on React components that haven't been updated since 2021 and the bill is coming due.
Oh man, the state of dress up games is a personal pet peeve of mine, poor onboarding tutorials is just one problem. The art direction is often simply atrocious, proper game loops barely exist (let alone creative ones), the microtransactions are the default business model. I honestly don't know what causes it, perhaps the games are just not that profitable so they don't attract highly skilled or at least conscientious game developers? I came to accept that they are just made by people who either dislike/don't care about games in general or dislike dress up games specifically. The best dress up games are normally made by Nintendo who have a strong game design and gave development culture in general.
P.s. As a side note, I started making small dress up games that I draw myself to scratch my own itch. I am not a programmer so they are absolutely horrendous and I only show them to friends. Making videogames is not as easy as making paper clothes for paper dolls like I did as a kid, but it is so fun and I feel 30 years younger somehow. :D
Yeah, I think those games have more potential than most people think. I love voting mechanics (spent a lot of time on ranking systems) and some have good stories ranging from "the heartwarming story of Nikki exploring a continent, making friends and proving her mad skills" to "a vicious fight for survival in an ancient court"
What's a good voting system? I remember checking out Dress to Impress (not a mobile but an incredibly popular Roblox game), and it had a somewhat unpleasant, imo, voting system -- players vote for each other's outfits and the score is a sum of the scores your co-players' gave you which incentivizies players to give everyone the lowest score. The game tries to "punish" this behavior by detecting "unfair" voters and lowering the weight of their votes, but I feel like you could tweak the original incentives instead by changing the mechanic. Having to rank outfits instead of giving each outfit a score could work I think? But there are probably other problems I'm missing. I dnn't play too many mutliplayer games.
(On the other hand, while I believe thinking about "gaming" the ranking takes away from the fun of the game, Dress to Impress is massively popular, so maybe this frustration is what makes it popular. IDK if kids play it because there are no competitors in the genre or because some competitive toxicity is addictive.)
Well I'm interested in voting theory from the viewpoint of political science and also from the viewpoint of developing ranking systems. It's actually a pretty depressing topic because you can easily come to the conclusion that the public doesn't have an interest at all.
In short, pairwise rankings are real and comparable between people whereas different people might use a scale differently. It's a difficult problem to deal with "i like the bagel shop a little bit more than the rice bowl restaurant but the party member who has celiac's opinion matters more than mine" See
now if you have N options you don't have to have everyone evaluate N(N-1) pairs because preferences are correlated and should be transitive. There are many algorithms, like Elo and the methods in that paper that can be used to run tournaments and compute scores. The game Covet uses pairwise ranking and I think gets good scores.
To get back to social decision theory, it's probably not good for players to be in a team for purposes of winning and losing. Like I think sharing clothes with your friends is a really fun mechanic (might make you want to really buy or work for something!) but if people can help or hurt their friends you get into the whole can of worms of coalitions in N-person games.
I just quickly tried Covet and I can imagine how the act of comparing and picking one of the two options can feel fun. I can see myself just voting on outfits in the game without creating my own when I need some really simple "mindless" fun. Not a productive effect but also not addictive enough AFAIK to be a big problem.
“Red dot” = mobile apps put a little red dot on the upper left of a badge to tell you it is calling for attention
“Fold green” = gambling slang from long ago where you had to go to Las Vegas to gamble. It’s when you are losing at the (blackjack, roulette, …) table and use cash (e.g. “green” in the US) to buy more chips.
What I dislike about Zotero is that it's a pain in the ass to self host. In my department I could spin up a local Zotero server for our PhD students and give them basically unlimited sync, but it's really finnicky
What difficulties are you having? All you need is WebDAV. I use a nextcloud server for mine and my partner's zotero storage, and its entirely trivial to set up.
I have many issues with Zotero (which has been dumbing down at the expense of power users for some time) – but easy private sync is definitely not one of them.
Looking at my own Zotero account, I can confirm that all metadata storage is free and not counted (I am using none of my 300Mb storage in my account according to zotero.org, despite syncing metadata for several thousand bibliography items). The only storage Zotero seems to count is attachment storage, and that's all synced via my WebDAV.
I thought the discussion was about self-hosting data, such that the provided free storage limits by Zotero remained sufficient? And for that use case, self-hosted WebDAV storage for file attachments is absolutely fine.
(The poster I was replying to was suggesting that their departmental users would go over their storage limits for metadata alone, even if they used WebDAV for attachments -- but that seems to be incorrect from my own experience, and everything I can find online.)
It is not supported natively (you can use a webdav server but it doesn't sync everything) and the third party options don't have the level of stability I'd need
I'm a big user and advocate of Zotero, but "it just works" is not a description that I'd say applies to it. It works kind of reasonably okay most of the time, and you get a feel for where and how you have to give a thump the times when it's not working the way it's supposed to, but it has its flaws. Unfortunately, it's also gotten harder to build, which means more difficult for people to get involved to contribute changes.
I could dig into their documentation but I'd rather ask an enthusiast. Is it still possible to get your own data out in a nice and easy format? I was once all-in on a note-taking app that slowly got worse and worse and it was a hassle to escape, so now I always consider it before starting.
If Zotero ever enshittifies or just disappears would I still be able to access my data and transfer it to something else?
It's also all open source and local-first. You can also add your own self-hosted WebDAV server for syncing across clients. Also, it's developed by a nonprofit organization.
Yes, but in addition to that, it is owned by a non-profit who hasn’t made a single controversial update in 20 years, so it’s got a pretty decent track record.
I have Zotero set up with some plugins that create a .bib file I create notes for in Emacs. I enjoy this setup because it allows me the convenience of saving files quickly using Zotero, but saves all the data it extracts to an open format with an auto export. If Zotero were to disappear tomorrow, I’d still have all my notes in org files and my citations in their bib file.
Not the person you're replying it to. I had that happen with Microsoft's OneNote. I really liked it and I had no problems parsing the XML files it made so I could pipe data into other systems but then it went 100% cloud storage.
It was a classic example of "Microsoft made something surprisingly good, made people think it was crap because they stuffed five OneNote icons on your taskbar and three up your nose, and then they wrecked it", must have come from the same mind that thought buying Activision was a good idea.
I was looking for software that would let me bookmark recipes (from web pages) and let me scrawl my notes on them. "Needs more of this or that ingredient" "Use less salt". This might be it.
It's baffling actually that Firefox doesn't let you annotate bookmarks, it seems such an obvious feature.
> It's baffling actually that Firefox doesn't let you annotate bookmarks, it seems such an obvious feature.
There was a financial conflict of interest, since Mozilla Corp was selling Pocket subscriptions where the ability to even just be able to have an unlimited number of highlights was a premium feature.
I usually just prefix the bookmark "name" (taken from the page title) with something or other. But it's a hack.
One of the things I started and didn't get back to with my hobbyist AI programming is a bookmark manager / URL cleaner. I should get back to thinking about the design for that. It's something I could actually use if I had it.
> You should save this post to Zotero, and then read it.
I might be dense - but I added this story as a URL to my library on Zotero on Android - and I don't see any way to read it "on" Zotero? I can apparently create a citation, however.
This post is about Zotero. https://www.zotero.org/
If you are not an academic, you might not know Zotero.
It is such a pleasure to use. Every app should be like this.
I read everything in it, including books I'm going through right now from https://teachyourselfcs.com/
It also does an amazing job of taking snapshots of posts. I use it all the time to grab posts from HackerNews so I can mark them up.
And it automagically syncs everywhere across devices and lets me store way too many files on the web like the ADD packrat I am, without breaking a sweat.
In short, this software just works, and it works well. So when somebody behind Zotero talks about how to develop software, I listen.
And it's a fun post with some history. You should save this post to Zotero, and then read it.