On: U.S. math scores drop on major international test

[tptacek]

No, that's not all the recent studies do; they also attempt to separate inherited environment, and estimate direct vs. indirect heritability.

It's funny, I can point to comments from IQ-fixated people on this site from 10 years ago saying that GWAS was going to settle heritability stuff. All that's gone now, of course. Now the work is apparently fatally flawed.

shortly later

(I'm sorry I'm giving clipped answers; I am also trying to unclog a Bosch dishwasher, and commenting in between draining cycles).

[xyzzyz → tptacek]

Please, tell me which GWAS study is claiming to estimate entire heritabilty. I am not aware of any. This is because their methodology simply does not allow it. They by design are going to miss some heritability, and the methodology is not powerful enough to be able to tell us how much they are missing. If you don’t understand this, I think you are very confused about what these studies actually say.

> It's funny, I can point to comments from IQ-fixated people on this site from 10 years ago saying that GWAS was going to settle heritability stuff.

Please, do, and bring receipts! You should refresh your memory as to where the whole debate was 10 years ago. At the time, many people still hopelessly argued that intelligence have nothing to do with genes, and the “IQ-fixated” people replied that GWASes will conclusively show that they do. Now that they have, the goalpost has shifted, and people who argued that intelligence has nothing to do with genes are, similarly to you, arguing that it doesn’t have as much to do as “IQ-fixated” people have claimed. Of course, in 10 years, the goalpost will move again.

[tptacek → xyzzyz]

I haven't spaced on this, but I'm going to take a beat to generate a more rigorous reply. In the meantime: I think the evidence, both from twin studies and from genomics, for genetic determination of intelligence is very weak, has gotten weaker, and describes an effect too small to be relevant to the gaps we're discussing in this story; bringing racial IQ science into a discussion like this is arson.

I'll do my best to back those points up tomorrow.

It's a little weird that you called out Gusev, above; on this topic Gusev, though a geneticist himself, seems more like a popularizer of current research than someone going out on a limb with his own. But check his references: the scientists whose studies he cites seem to be saying the same thing he is.

[xyzzyz → tptacek]

I was waiting for the reply, but I realized that you might not be able to send one or edit your comment anymore, so here is one from me to give you opportunity to do so. I’m really curious what you found about GWASes or the state of debate around them 10 years ago.