Hacker News new | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit login

> forcible breakup by the government is fundamentally a nationalization, even if it's just for an instant

The government never took any ownership interest in AT&T. You may be thinking of the auto bailouts.




You may be thinking of socialism.

Nationalization can be involve control instead of ownership.

If the President orders Google to switch all efforts to producing nuclear bombs, Google has been nationalized, even if they've still got private shareholders.

Socialism will necessarily involve nationalization. Nationalization doesn't necessarily require a socialist ownership structure for the nationalized asset.


> may be thinking of socialism

This makes no sense on multiple levels. Socialisation is a system, nationalisation an act.

> Nationalization can be involve control instead of ownership

There are zero legal scholars or historians who consider break-up orders nationalisation. Because at that point, every merger denial or FDA approval is also nationalisation.


> Socialisation is a system, nationalisation an act.

Socialism, the system, requires widespread nationalization in the form of both control and ownership of assets.

> There are zero legal scholars or historians who consider break-up orders nationalisation.

Again, nationalization is taking state ownership or control. A forcible government breakup of an organization is clear state control of it, albeit for a brief period.

Thought experiment:

Venezuela, instead of outright confiscation, chooses instead to leave shareholders in possession of their shares in oil production. They install state-selected management and impose a 100% tax on profits. Is this nationalization?


> forcible government breakup of an organization is clear state control of it

You’re defining control in a way that extends to all regulation.

The AT&T break-up has been heavily cited and written about. Do you have a single expert who agrees with your claim that it constituted nationalisation? (Let’s even assume AT&T was actually ordered to break up, versus voluntarily doing so to settle a lawsuit.)

> instead of outright confiscation, chooses instead to leave shareholders in possession of their shares in oil production. They install state-selected management and impose a 100% tax on profits.

Now remove the confiscation of profits and selection of state-selected management.




Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: