Except for the executives of course. Your guaranteed 30% raises are coming in like always, as well as the ability to disappear for months on end and then show up to 1 visible meeting and then disappear again with no accountability for output or overall success of the company.
Not as made up as the value executives bring to their company.
Feigning academic interest is nauseating by the way. You bring nothing to the conversation and demand other people do work until you reach some arbitrary level of satisfaction; even after doing the work you'd just disappear from the conversation and not have your opinion changed.
Searching through your comment history you've only offered citations or references a handful of times, despite having over 11,000 comments.
No one needs citations to voice a commonly shared perspective or experience on an internet forum, get real.
My bad, he only has 3,300 comments. That definitely makes things so much better!
The only BS here are comments, like yours and his, not even remotely attempting to add anything useful to the conversation and attempting to pretend to have some higher standard while not even being able to adhere to it yourselves.
You have execs disappearing for months at your employer? I work in an international 80k employee company, I can’t imagine an exec disappearing. These have no direct reports? In my company it’s a ticket for being let go, when you have no reports…
Of course I don’t have super great visibility, but the 4 above me in my line of report, I don’t see how they could disappear.
The fortune 500 where I use to work, the only pay raises you got were like Cost of Living, based upon Ave Pay for your job, and those raises were always around 1%. People who I know who got promoted did not get any raises due to pay overlap in the bands. All you got was more stress on a promotion.
So no promotions for working remote ? Sounds good to me.
Why does that sound good to you? Do the executives at the Fortune 500 you worked at not make enough millions to comically eclipse the average wealth of the people that actually run the company?
I gotta say, given the choice between a potential promotion and continuing to live a significantly happier life as a remote worker, I’d easily choose the latter.
My thoughts exactly. I'm done with the rat race. It's not a fair game where the rules change as you go along. I'm downsizing and getting rid of lifestyle inflation. I'd rather be free and remote with less pay.
No need to apologize, it is a completely strange concept and I'm rushed!
Some places have existing employees interview for the job they want. They do this by making a 'packet'; a collection of documents proving things like business impact.
It's often put in front of a group of people with that job for review and they decide.
Normally, management, your peers, or the company as a whole are aware of your performance. They should be doing a lot of this for you, in my opinion.
It basically demands you do the job you want, before you have it. Some see this as fair, and I could agree, but not after 5+ years. I see it as a way to trick newcomers into overextending themselves.
> Normally, management, your peers, or the company as a whole are aware of your performance. They should be doing a lot of this for you, in my opinion.
In company's with forced attrition rates, it becomes a hell of a popularity contest.
When Kevin Turner (former Wal-Mart exec) headed CSS (Customer Services and Support) at M$FT, it was a shit show and a half - creating something like a mandatory 5% attrition rate per year.
Nothing boosts morale better than people vying to NOT be the person let go that year. /s
Yep "quiet firing" I think is the new term for the old practice of forcing people out slowly by not giving them pay rises and making their existing position uncomfortable.
True, but there's a major difference between who leaves. A well-implemented RIF would eliminate many of those who prefer a Return to Office. So - for them - this is a better alternative.
At my company, the minimum is 3 days a week in the office, but the "expectation" is 4 days, and "leaders" are expected to be there 5 days a week. No idea what any of that means. I'm fully remote, so I guess I'm not the leader of the team I manage?
Meanwhile, the only remote people I saw get a "promotion" in the last cycle either got a title bump without a level bump, or were the only person on the ground in the country where they work. The only level jumps I've seen in remote positions is when a remote person leaves and a new office-based person comes in to fill their place, the new person is hired at the level the remote person should have been promoted to.
It's a shitty time to work in the corporate world.
management, esp. on the mid to high level, is often about coordination, alignment, and communication. and often in ways that are not 100% provable, both in a CYA sense, but also in a "don't spook investors/the market" sense; until it's official, it's not anything. and in-person discussions lend themselves better to spitballing and brainstorming, IMO.
>However, the efficacy of RTO mandates is questionable. An examination of 457 companies on the S&P 500 list released in February concluded that RTO mandates don't drive company value but instead negatively affect worker morale. Analysis of survey data from more than 18,000 working Americans released in March found that flexible workplace policies, including the ability to work remotely completely or part-time and flexible schedules, can help employees' mental health.
One possible translation: the company does not care about you.
Around a decade ago I was working at a developer tools company. An org within Dell was using our product. When we spoke with their management about how it was working, what their feature requests, etc. were, they'd frequently refer to the engineers as "the cattle" and were not speaking humorously.
I am not surprised that behavior is present elsewhere in their employee relations. It does not seem like an environment that sparks joy.
When I worked at Dell it was....not great. My org had a tendency to fire any manager who set realistic expectations and put in place anyone who would always say yes to the client.
It got so bad that my direct manager had a literal mental breakdown one day over someone resigning that was key to the success of a project. Like sobbing, throwing furniture at walls out of control break down. I got out of their right after that, last I heard my direct manager quit tech entirely and went back to his home country. That org was not setup for anyone to win.
But it was my first non-intern job out of college and it introduced me to the perk of WFH, we all had 2 WFH days a week and I loved it (especially since at home I could stream music, at the office 30+ people shared a T1 line). A couple years after I left, I got laid off, and desperate for a job, came back to Dell, but at that point almost nobody was coming into the office and I didn't have any teammates there so I just worked from home all the time. that was 9 years ago I think, and I've worked remotely since then.
Well... If you have to monitor the workers physical location, then you can't measure productivity, right?
So, you want people in offices for side city-business (human animal intensive farming) but since you know they work equally from remote or in an office you have to check their compliance because your target are urban side business not work productivity, right?
It's perfectly legit, only... You need to find people who agree being farmed like cattle, otherwise you'll get more and more desperate mediocre workers and well, some competitors will eat you a step at a time.
"Dell has allowed people to work remotely for over 10 years. But in February, it issued an RTO mandate, and come May 13, most workers will be classified as either totally remote or hybrid. Starting this month, hybrid workers have to go into a Dell office at least 39 days per quarter. Fully remote workers, meanwhile, are ineligible for promotion, Business Insider reported in March."
If we assume a quarter is 3 months, then there are 60 work days in a quarter. 39/60 is 65% in office. That basically means Dell employees have to be in office 4 out of 5 times a week with a little leeway here and there.
Great point. We are seeing new legislation, legal action, and guidelines set for the right to virtual schooling and healthcare recently, using ADA or procurement laws as the basis. Will be interesting if any explicit guidelines to protect the remote jobs of disabled people come about
I don't think promotion is a right of any kind - there are many jobs where that's it and you're never promoted. It would actually be ridiculous (though not unexpected for some places) to have laws related to promotion.
That said, it's really dumb corporate policy, it basically telling people to do the minimum or leave.
> It would actually be ridiculous (though not unexpected for some places) to have laws related to promotion.
The problem is that for many organizations, promotion is the only way your wage keeps up with inflation (without leaving, of course). Having a class of employees who get receive a different wage for the same work, particularly when that class aligns to a different set of demographics than in-office employees, is problematic at best, and I look forward to a court ruling it illegal. Promotion doesn't always mean a different job, sometimes it really just means different pay for the same job.
the goal may be to push out the old people but they're not going to be chasing promotion the way the Gen Z folks will.
paradoxically, the cat is out of the bag for Gen Z, and remote is seen as a given for them. it's a way to freeze the pay of the quiet-quitter remote types.
older (as in nearish to retirement) workers will accept what they have while remote until their out.
the mid-level folks in their late 20-40s will be most impacted, and I suspect the qualified ones will split instead of being frozen. that may be the goal, but it's also going to push out a crop of otherwise qualified folks that would be major drivers of future initiatives. like, a future director (currently manager) is going to accept this, sit on it for 3 years, and then jump to another org that will tolerate their remoteness.
there is a "prove your serious" angle by forcing them into the office, but I suspect that's only going to get mediocre talent who can't negotiate elsewhere for better bennies. or else "true believers" which generally mean suckers, in the Ribbonfarm-Clueless-Losers-Psychopaths sense.
The ADA requires reasonable accommodation, not whatever the employee demands. If you’re blind they can get you a screen reader, they don’t have to hire Tim Curry to read all the text you encounter during the day. And if you lack mobility they have to have a wheelchair accessible workplace, they don’t have to let you work from from orbit via radio uplink.
Given Dell's executives comments over the past decade on the effectiveness of remote workers, it seems like it would be difficult for them to make the case that remote work is not a reasonable accomodation for a disability affecting mobility.
Yeah this is unlikely to be included. It's probably more "if your contract is office based, we won't fire you for working remote but technically you're breaking your contract right now through inertia, so we can count that as a reason to not promote you."
Without other contributing circumstances (like being remote due to disability), this is legal in many countries with actual worker protections, let alone the US.
This is just tech workers being precious and cosplaying as being hard done by. Lmao.
I'm not so sure in this case. I think many companies' aggressive return-to-office policies are a method for attrition: layoffs in disguise.
Case in point: the Federal Canadian government has recently increased the mandatory number of weekly in-office days from 2/week to 3/week, with no clear explanation. I suspect that it's a way to reduce the workforce with less pushback.
I’m excited when people in leadership positions who are in the boomer generation start to retire out. I think we’ll get a lot more sensible business leadership once they’re gone.
For anyone in a middle management role, the struggle is real.
I don't have a day go by without senior leadership treating me like I'm failing the company for putting my employees' needs over the "needs" of management.
False. You can go work in another place. Also creating that is the inception of politicized corruption. Argentina's last 60 years are a testimony to the world about that.
