Hacker News new | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit login

Re: Anomaly 6 -

Providing two versions of the same sentence bit is not that uncommon in non-Japanese literature as well. For example, War and Peace in its original (Russian) language is sprinkled with French words and phrases, all duly translated via footnotes. This might not be as user-friendly as gikun as it requires glancing down and up the page a lot, but the idea is the same.

Even in spoken language mixing in foreign words often helps conveying nuances of what's being said. Some words don't exist in some languages or require longer phrasing or don't mean exactly that, etc. This sort of thing a very common in multi-lingual families.

So that "Anomaly 6" is not that much of an anomaly if you think about it.

PS. It was a good read regardless.




“War and Peace” has more complex history.

First revision had nobles speaking French when suitable, because “everyone” could still speak some French in Tolstoy's times (just like people in IT all across the world link to original English documentation every day without even thinking about it).

Then it was found that “everyone” meant “well-educated nobles like Tolstoy”. For second revision, Tolstoy rewrote all French utterances into Russian (and moved most of philosophical sections to dedicated postscripts).

Then it was reverted to original form (with later corrections), but with translations of French text in footnotes.

Second revision was printed in “cheap” editions, third revision was used in higher quality ones. Later Soviet prints follow Collected Works version based on French-enabled revision (and thorough comparison of printed editions and manuscripts).

Depending on the age of your translation and its source, you may find any of those. Some translators also chose to translate French instead of using footnotes.


There's an interesting piece of trivia regarding the title "War and Peace". The title in Russian is "Война и Мир", where "Мир" can mean both "peace" and "world", depending on context. However, there's some debate regarding which meaning was intended by Tolstoy.

I couldn't find anything about this on English wikipedia, but here's a rough translation from the Russian page:

Before the 1917-1918 language reform, "peace" was written as "миръ", and "world" as "мiръ". There's a legend which claims that Tolstoy initially intended to use the "world" meaning. Indeed, the second part of the epilogue has some thoughts about why the wars happen and how they affect the world as a whole.

Despite this, every edition of the novel published during Tolstoy's life was titled as "Война и миръ" (= peace), and the French version of the title as written by Tolstoy was "La guerre et la paix". There are different explanations of this legend. (explanations follow, can't be bothered to translate)

https://ru.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%92%D0%BE%D0%B9%D0%BD%D0%...


>Even in spoken language mixing in foreign words often helps conveying nuances of what's being said. Some words don't exist in some languages or require longer phrasing or don't mean exactly that, etc. This sort of thing a very common in multi-lingual families.

So, in other words, adding in foreign words can add some je ne sais quoi


> For example, War and Peace in its original (Russian) language is sprinkled with French words and phrases, all duly translated via footnotes

Amusingly, my English edition kept the French and didn't have footnotes. I read it as a kid and had no hope of understanding the French so I just skipped over it whenever it came up.




Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: