It's hard to feel positive about upgrading my phone when every new phone seems to remove things I want while adding stuff I don't care about.
My S10e is a reasonable size in my pocket. It has a headphone jack. It has an SD card slot. Any new Samsung phone I buy will be missing these things, and I'll be forced to pay hundreds of dollars extra to increase the on-board storage that will still be far less than the 512GB sd card I've currently got in there.
And I could try switching away from Samsung, but then I risk losing even more features I take to be standard, like wireless charging.
The phone still works just fine, it's fast enough for my needs (although the battery is certainly worse than when I got it). I would be more than happy to pay like $100/yr for "extended" support on it to still get repairs and security patches, rather than having to chuck it in the bin.
I have an iPhone 13 mini, the last <5" flagship phone you can buy. I'm not particularly tied to the iPhone ecosystem, but when this dies, I don't know what I'm going to do.
Pizza parlors are ubiquitous because it takes 50 cents of ingredients, 5 minutes, and an elementary school education to make one. It’s not a very relevant analogy.
There is only so much variation to the size of people’s hands. The mini makes a big battery life and visibility sacrifice to save space.
It’s not much different to the reasons why two-door sports cars have fallen out of favor. They can only do one thing well.
Phones have to do so much for the typical person, they’re not just basic communication devices, and having one that can’t do everything all day is a big compromise.
I had a 12 mini and 13 mini and I can understand why they were discontinued. I loved them at first, but the trade off ultimately doesn’t make sense. I bet you there were very few repeat customers.
I have small fingers and it was hard to type on. Looking at the screen was straining, and it would be worse if I was older or had worse eyesight. The battery life got a little better for the 13 mini but I got range anxiety and had to charge before the day ended almost every day.
Sure I get that. My focus was on this part: "But I have to imagine we've crossed the point where "better camera" stopped being noticeable to the masses?"
I went from iPhone 4 -> 7 -> 11 -> 13. I upgraded on a shorter cycle from 11 to 13 so I could pass down my 11 to my kids. In each instance, the image quality has improved tremendously.
Going from 4 to 7 was a massive jump in terms of resolution. Going from 7 to 11 was a boost in color and clarity, despite being nearly the same MP. Going from 11 to 13 was a huge improvement in night mode and shooting speeds. Also, these are non-PRO phones, as I cannot afford the PRO ones. I imagine the improvement in the PRO iPhone cameras are nicer.
Every iteration has been an improvement to me, and obviated the need for a DSLR in every day use.
Everything might look good in the camera app preview, but it's really noticeable when you go back and look at your old photos. You see a lot of things you wish were captured better. That's from just a year or two ago.
I'm sure there are people who say they don't care about their photos having room for improvement, and sometimes you want better and can't afford it, but that's not quite the same.
Literally all my family photos are taken on a phone. I don’t own another camera. What is so hard to understand?
I am no photography expert but if you skip 3-4 generations of iPhone you are guaranteed a very substantial upgrade every time. The improvements are visible and obvious.
I guess what this person wants are the cameras of the Ultra Max Pro Super Mega iPhone model, on the mini version. And not "just" the cameras of the standard iPhone.
Yea I agree. They tend to market the mini or smaller ones not just as smaller phones but as lower end phones. Since my order of preferences is the features and then the size, I end up never able to justify the smaller phone even though I don't need the big size.
People hate the short battery life, and all the high-powered parts of a premium phone (to the extent that they do take more power) are thus even worse suited to the small battery. Incidentally, I'm starting to want something with less battery; mine lasts over two days, so it seems like I should get something smaller. Problem is, from what I understand, iPhones still do slow charging in 2023.
Re:iPhone SE, the newest one was announced March 2022, a refresh from the 2020 predecessor, so I think you should consider them an active product line with slower refresh cycle fitting a lower-price device.
I'm not sure where you got this impression, they've supported fast charging since the iPhone 8 in 2017, which could do 50% of the battery in 30 mins, with the appropriate charger. Now which fast charging spec is a different question.
Same. I had an iPhone 5, then an SE (1st gen) and now with a 12 mini. Form factor is the key argument. If there no more "mini" form factor, I'm moving to something else.
Yeah, I signed up for updates more than a year ago and haven't gotten any. Migicovsky seems more interested in Beeper than furthering this project. Which I get, an app is easier and cheaper to deploy than a phone. Still a bit disappointed, I might end up buying a Unihertz Atom XL for a reasonable screen size with bonus FRS radio built in.
I'm starting to think about combination smart watches + dumb phone. But I have no clue how the smart watches actually are. But smartphone seems to be targeted for people that do not use laptop/desktop that much.
Can you use them completely independently from an Apple phone? I thought not...
Context: I'm not particularly interested in switching to Apple's phone ecosystem, but their watches seem to be superior to Android's and I am slightly interested in getting one of them.
I don't have one, but I was under the impression cellular versions of Apple Watches can be used independently from an iPhone. You can take calls, send messages, stream music, etc. miles away from a phone, as its connectivity isn't through the phone its through its own onboard cellular modem. Now, do you have to have some kind of iPhone somewhere for it to do things like route messages through iMessage? I don't know.
With the newer iterations, you can. I bought a series 5 used off ebay and plan to try using it independently. It's obviously not going to give you the full functionality of a full-sized phone, but if we're talking minimalist phones I don't think that's the point anyway. Maps + (very) basic texting + phone calls.
You can but it’s not the most ideal experience. Calling, maps, and health stuff works fine; texting is alright; other apps are going to be hit or miss, mostly miss. You also need to get the more expensive LTE version, and to have a provider that will sell you an esim for just the watch without an attached plan for a phone.
Really sad to see not being corrected after dozens of comments and upvotes. It gives me the feeling people dont actually know what they are talking about.
I bought my S10e for 450AUD ($300US) on clearance six months after it was released. I've replaced the factory rom, and the battery once.
There's nothing on the android market like it, it's only slightly larger than the iphone 12/13 mini that's also discontinued. Small phones with all the bells and whistles aren't made anymore by anyone. I will be very sad when I can't get parts.
Oh, I didn't even notice why I keep postponing upgrading my out-of-line phone that can't even get new software from the play store anymore. But yeah, it's because I dread of looking around trying to decide what I'll give up to get a headphone jack.
You can put a USBC-to-3.5mm (or lightning) adapter on your headphones and just leave it there. Not as good as having a proper headphone jack, but it's good enough. Yes, they make combo listen & charge adapters, too.
I don't think it's good enough, and I don't think the others complaining about the same issue are somehow unaware of charge+listen USB-C or Lightning dongles either.
My gripe is that I don't want to pay for a new thing that causes me a problem that I don't currently have. I don't want to carry and keep track of a dongle. I don't want to put wear and tear on the USB-C port for the 8-12 hours a day I've got headphones plugged into the phone in my pocket.
Yeah, 100% agree it sucks. But what I'm responding to is, "I dread of looking around trying to decide what I'll give up to get a headphone jack." I'm saying it's not worth making an enormous sacrifice to retain the jack.
I've been using adapters for at least 5 years at this point, I've never had a port break. The dongles do break after 4~6 months, which sucks, but they're only like $8-10. Buy a handful and swap in a new one as they break. It is a downgrade, and you're right to complain, but again it's not worth making a big sacrifice over.
Former S10 owner here. It had an audio jack, and an SpO2 meter (which is useful to a family member), and FM radio (used it a lot when doing farm work). The S22 has none of those, and it is heavier. Feeling so cheated by phone ~~makers~~ grifters is making me very careful with any of my next purchases. It's as if the market has reached a peak and the only thing they can think of is scraping the bottom of the barrel.
I also loved my S10e. Unfortunately the mainboard on it died few few months ago.
I bought Sony Xperia 1 V to replace it. It has a 3.5mm headphone jack and a MicroSD card slot. The build quality is excellent but I'm a bit worried what the software support will look like in a few years.
Eventually you'll just have to upgrade because the phone is too slow. I had to upgrade from my galaxy S8 earlier this year because it slowed to a crawl, my wife commented on how slow it was every time she used it. I had it for 5 years. I still hate not having a headphone jack, but having 5G and an insanely fast phone made it worth it.
It's well known that the flash memory degrades and gets very much slower over time, and this is why smart phones get slower as they age. Can't replace the flash, so the phone is essentially unusable after a few years.
replaced the battery 3 times! this new one not so much.
I bought it thinking 'ill get the best there is. At the time it was. Then all I used it for was very light web stuff and phone calls. So as long as it did those 2 things I was fine. Still trying to figure out what to use it for. I think one of the flash chips is EoL at this point.
Also a S10e user here. I've been eyeing the Asus Zenfone 10, but it's unfortunately not available in the US for most mobile networks here. Truly a shame that not many are making small phones, and those that are are not paying attention to the US market.
That's why I drag out my upgrades as long as I can. If I want a decent upgrade it's gotta be higher end, and if it's higher end it's gonna be >$1000 CAD (if not ~$1,500). If I have to spend that much, I'm going to try to get it to last as long as possible so that I get the value out of the current phone AND the greatest improvements possible before plopping down that money down again.
The phone makers did it to themselves with the prices.
pretty much. This days Im happy with a middle end phone, because my mother and step daugher always Inherit my old phone from me, so if I have to buy for everyone I will buy every year a middle of the range phone and after a year or 2 give to one of them,
I loved my s10e, although the camera glass (or rather plastic) cracked during the first months from basically placing the phone on flat surfaces. Otherwise the form factor, dimensions, audio jack port, photos quality were excellent.
My galaxy s10 rocks. I guess the battery has had almost 1000 charging cycles and is still performing good enough. I like the smaller than average size and weight, the smooth and snappy scratch resistant screen. Speaker sound is quite decent.
I don't see how I would benefit from things like 100Hz or more screen refresh rate or even tinier pixels. 5G, I would not use since that would increase the amount of wireless data so much that i'd need a more expensive plan.
I guess a lot of phones in use are sitting on a 'more than decent' plateau. It's a good thing.
OnePlus is a big disappointment to me. I'd be a customer for life if they'd kept doing what made them so good:
1. Never settle: big specs, lots of features. SD cards and headphone jack on a flagship? yes please!
2. Factory images available so I can easily re-flash to stock
3. Great pricing
4. Not required proprietary charger to get max speed
They could really turn it around, but they would need to return to their roots. Until then I'll just stick with the Pixel A series. It never excites me about phones, but it checks most of my boxes.
I'm not upgrading from my Pixel 5A. It has a fingerprint reader and I can unlock it from my pocket. It has a headphone jack. Every new phone has taken these things away. Very disappointing.
This is a technical audience. This article is about people not upgrading phones. There are many technical and professional people that have chosen not to upgrade phones because of the lack of these features.
Clearly, that group isn't the main reason for the decline (it's not even mentioned as a trend in the article,) but it really shouldn't be surprising that there are people on this site who still take these things into consideration when upgrading.
Oh yeah, moved on to what? What has replaced those things and rendered them obsolete?
On-board storage sure didn't, that's small and not portable, and we already had that. Bluetooth headphones didn't, those require special hardware, have to be charged (battery), have higher latency, reduced sound quality (lower fidelity), packet loss, and spyware built in, and DRM capable. Not even close to a replacement for analog headphone jack.
The storage on the device is portable when the device is portable. There are very few instances where I'd find an SD card acceptably portable but a phone not so.
Phones these days come in hundreds of gigs of storage. My current phone was a decently cheap one and had 128GB of storage, easily >100GB of usable space. On Android one can easily mount the storage as a USB drive and transfer data at high speeds. And given its a nearly permanently network device its pretty trivial to have it sync storage someplace else, including your own self-hosted infrastructure. I don't need to have my complete music library on my device everywhere I go, I just cache the playlists I'm in to at the moment and stream when I have network (which is the majority of the time). Same goes with consuming video content or listening to podcasts or whatever. Why save it locally when it can trivially be streamed? Why keep your entire photo and personal movie collection on your portable device which can get lost and broken when you can just connect back home and access even more storage with higher reliability anytime, anywhere?
Between on-board storage ballooning in size and network infrastructure making it pretty easy to access things over the net, for me and many others having SD cards is entirely obsolete.
I don't understand what you mean about "spyware built in" for Bluetooth headphones. All my Bluetooth devices do not have any other kinds of network connectivity, they don't phone home or anything like that. There's no app or anything like that needed for them.
There's also no "DRM" for Bluetooth, the output of the Bluetooth audio doesn't have some kind of macrovision or something preventing you from recording it or anything like that. I've got Bluetooth receivers which output to S/PDIF and analog RCA connectors, its not protected or anything like that.
> On Android one can easily mount the storage as a USB drive and transfer data at high speeds.
One can? I thought one actually can't, because a) the internal storage is using a file system Windows PCs and Macs don't understand and b) you can't simultaneously mount the internal storage on both your phone and your computer because that would only lead to data corruption. And unmounting the internal storage while the phone is running isn't possible either, because that's were all your apps and settings and whatnot are stored.
Hence for a very long time now you can only access your phone via MTP, which can be annoyingly fickle and less stable.
Conversely, an external SD card that only gets used as additional storage space for documents, music, pictures, etc., actually can be unmounted and at least in principle be switched into true mass storage mode (although in practice this might require root, and I don't know how well this still works on current phone models that still feature SD card slots).
You're using an extremely narrow definition of "mount" here, as in natively mounting the filesystem. Accessing your phone via MTP is still a form of "mounting" the storage over USB. Different than how one would mount an SD card, sure, but its still "mounting" the storage.
I've had no problems over several years using my Android device as essentially a large external storage device to move files around. For the purpose of copying photos, videos, documents, other files, side loading apps, etc. it works well.
And one can go the other way and take an external drive and plug it in to most Android devices these days to copy data off of it without having to use it with a Windows/Mac/Linux device. So from the perspective of someone who went on a vacation in the woods and is shooting hundreds of gigs of videos it is possible to plug in external storage and copy off to it directly. One could even use a USB SD card reader and write it to SD cards. Or MMC cards. Or floppy disks if you're so inclined.
> I've had no problems over several years using my Android device as essentially a large external storage device to move files around. For the purpose of copying photos, videos, documents, other files, side loading apps, etc. it works well.
Yeah it works, but I'd still say that "well" only applies with some caveats. MTP only works with full computers, not other devices that only expect some dumb USB storage (like the book scanner at my local state library), for a long time there was a bug whereby Android didn't preserve the last modified date when copying files via MTP (and I'm still not absolutely sure it's been fixed in current Android versions – I guess I'm going to find out once I finally upgrade my phone), sometimes it didn't show changes I made on my phone if the media scanner hadn't got around to indexing them yet, normal software on my computer other than the file explorer couldn't directly access files, listing of directories was slow, if you tried to do too much at once (like continuing to browse the storage while some large file transfer was underway) you'd get the dreaded "device is busy" error… it's better than nothing and it's not completely unusable, but there's a reason why I immediately looked for better solutions
> Why save it locally when it can trivially be streamed?
If you usually have a network connection, then most of the time streaming is fine. However, not everybody does. About 50% of the time I'm not home, I have little to no service, and even sometimes when I have a strong signal, it will randomly just stop working unless I toggle airplane mode off and on to reforce a handshake with the tower. If we all lived in a big city then sure we could probably make that assumption, but some people live in Wyoming. With local storage I can download high quality FLACs from Bandcamp and get higher quality without having to even think about whether I'll have service. Offline playback of music is a feature the original iPod had!
> Why keep your entire photo and personal movie collection on your portable device which can get lost and broken when you can just connect back home and access even more storage with higher reliability anytime, anywhere?
I would guess most people have more than 100GB in personal photos and videos, so even for the average use case this seems wrong, but especially for people that record much 4K video, you'll run out of space very quickly. Those files can easily get multiple GB in size. If you're on a vacation where you have little or no network connection, you'll have to downgrade your video quality or limit what you record. How is that better? If there were an SD card slot, this is a non-issue because you can bring as many SD cards as you need, and swap them out as they fill up. Can you do that with onboard storage? Then it's not a replacement/obsolescence, it's just a feature removal.
> I don't understand what you mean about "spyware built in" for Bluetooth headphones. All my Bluetooth devices do not have any other kinds of network connectivity, they don't phone home or anything like that. There's no app or anything like that needed for them.
That's great, I'm really happy for you. But some bluetooth headphones do have spyware (especially some of the best ones in some people's opinions). If it requires you to use a special app to pair and/or access features, then it (probably) has spyware in it. Bose is a great example (or at least was, maybe things have changed). With a physical head phone jack, there's no pairing required and there's no way to force you to use their software. That's a hell of a feature IMHO.
That you don't personally have a use case for a headphone jack, doesn't mean it's obsolete. There isn't a replacement for a physical headphone jack, only alternatives with different pros and cons. If that were the criteria, then the M3 macbook would be considered obsolete because I don't personally have a use for it.
> If it requires you to use a special app to pair and/or access features, then it (probably) has spyware in it.
There's an extreme minority of Bluetooth audio devices which have apps. And even in those extreme outliers, the app is optional. The headphones still pair to Bluetooth devices without issues, or else it is not using Bluetooth. I've used >50 different bluetooth audio devices over the years, 0 ever needed some kind of app to pair. Suggesting Bluetooth has some baked-in spyware is absolutely untrue; There's no baked-in spyware to the Bluetooth audio stack. The Bluetooth audio stack has no built-in way to enforce the app.
It really shows your extreme biases though stating such wild untruths like Bluetooth has baked-in spyware and DRM.
> Suggesting Bluetooth has some baked-in spyware is absolutely untrue; There's no baked-in spyware to the Bluetooth audio stack. The Bluetooth audio stack has no built-in way to enforce the app.
I never said that. If you actually read what I wrote, you'll see that I specifically mentioned that some do that, and that they require an app to pair or access special features. That is the opposite of saying the spyware is baked into the Bluetooth audio stack. Not to mention, there isn't just one stack, there are numerous different implementations. Either you're arguing in bad faith or you don't understand the technology and how an app could introduce spyware, or both. If you want to actually have a productive conversation, you need to stop the straw manning[1] and pearl clutching[2] and address the arguments (of which there several more that you're conveniently ignoring).
And the attempt at accusation in a mirror[3] of "extreme bias" further demonstrates bad faith on your part. I think it's best to just go our separate ways on this one.
> Bluetooth headphones didn't, those require special hardware, have to be charged (battery), have higher latency, reduced sound quality (lower fidelity), packet loss, and spyware built in, and DRM capable.
Here you're not stating that some extreme minority (read: probably <0.001%) have an entirely optional app which might possibly have spyware. You're stating Bluetooth headphones have spyware built in. Where's the limitation that its only some of them? Sure, later you walk back your extreme position, but you make yourself known off the bat in your original comment.
Thinking that Bluetooth headphones, as an overall concept, has spyware baked in isn't grounded in reality. The only way I can imagine you pushing that idea, which you 100% did in your original post, is an extreme aversion to it. Which its funny you then accuse me of not knowing how Bluetooth audio works, when you're the one arguing spyware is inherently baked into it. Which please, point to me any standard Bluetooth Audio spec (A2DP, LE Audio, etc) which has spyware baked in like you originally claimed.
Please, show me one pair of headphones which represent themselves as Bluetooth headphones but will not pair without an app installed. That somehow use the Bluetooth protocol to enforce DRM and enforce spyware. Or else get otta here with claims like "Bluetooth has spyware built in". Maybe its not me that doesn't understand the technology.
Ah, but I'm the one arguing in bad faith and doesn't understand technology. Not the one who makes non-factual statements like "Bluetooth has spyware built in" and later argues they didn't say it.[0] Its not straw manning to address something you literally did write. Its not pearl clutching to point out when someone says something untrue like "Bluetooth has spyware built in".
Note the negative tone about having our phones actually work longer, last longer and be usable longer without draining our money just to keep the threadmill rolling.
Imagine how pissed the car industry must be now since most people drive cars for 10-15 years instead of replacing them once per few years like iPhones.
> Imagine how pissed the car industry must be now since most people drive cars for 10-15 years instead of replacing them once per few years like iPhones.
They have been for years, Western markets have been saturated for years - that's the reason why especially the German carmakers shifted all their attention towards China, the only place left that has enough wealthy people to afford their cars.
> Note the negative tone about having our phones actually work longer, last longer and be usable longer without draining our money just to keep the threadmill rolling.
Indeed, it's a really positive development. Finally this market is pretty mature and one can buy something that isn't completely unsable within a couple of years of purchase.
My family of three phone users just upgrades our phones to whatever the lower end pixel is when they break (due to some accidental damage). Despite the horror stories, these phones have always been fine for us.
The last remaining barrier to this strategy (limited security updates from Google) is finally going away, so the future for "replace it when it breaks" looks even better.
Except in actual reality EV battereis are pretty damn reliable and plugs are pretty standardized and wont change much at all for at least a decade or more.
In Europe is already standard. The US will switch to NACS but that's what most cars sold in the US already had and by 1-2 years from now all new cars will be NACS.
Can we please not spread weird conspiracy theories? EV battery replacements are vanishingly rare and nobody is secretly pushing EVs as a way to punish the public.
Do you track your car expenses? I do. Here are numbers from 2011-2018 for a used 2003 car:
Gas: $7200
Maintenance/Repairs: $2300
Note that maintenance includes things you'd do for EVs as well (e.g. new tires).
That's $9500 in 7 years.
Total spent on the car (including purchase price): $18500.
The extra cost of a comparably sized EV is significantly more than my gas and repair costs.
The numbers for my other cars is similar.
Sorry, not buying the koolaid.
I haven't included insurance, which will be a lot cheaper as well. For context, for my older car I pay $700/year for insurance, and that's with many of the benefits maxed out - I simply can't get more expensive insurance! For my other (newer) car it's more like $1200/year.
You got really lucky on your maintenance then. Unless you're doing the oil changes yourself, those alone should have run you at least $1,000 (and probably more because you should have been changing your air filters too). And it sounds like you never had to do brakes (which come up sooner on ICE cars because EVs have regenerative braking).
But to be clear you're an outlier. Most 2003 cars can't get away with such low maintenance costs.
I keep hearing this. I've apparently been lucky for 20 years and with 4 cars. I'm a really lucky guy.
Or, perhaps, I research which cars are reliable, and get a good mechanic to check them out before I buy them.
> Unless you're doing the oil changes yourself, those alone should have run you at least $1,000
In that time period, an oil change was $20-30. Yes, it costs a lot more for some cars (e.g. $80 for one of my other cars). Also, if you did it every 3 months or 3000 miles you've bought into the propaganda. Do it on the schedule specified in your car's manual. For all my cars, that's every 6 months, and 5000 or 6000 miles. For heavy usage (10,000 miles for non-heavy, but almost everyone falls into the "heavy" category).
Oh, and I'm not a big car guy. I know almost nothing about doing maintenance myself (other than adding wiper fluid). I do whatever the mechanic recommends. Find a good mechanic, and stay away from official dealerships.
> And it sounds like you never had to do brakes
On the car I quoted, I did. In 2014. Cost me under $420.
> Most 2003 cars can't get away with such low maintenance costs.
That car got totaled in 2018. So I replaced it with another 2003 car of similar miles as the one that was totaled. In the last 5 years I've spent $3000 on maintenance/repairs. That's more than the 8 years prior, but some of it is just due to inflation and labor costs. Oil change costs, for example, almost doubled.
Gas costs should be higher per year because gas is more expensive and the car I replaced it with is a lot less efficient. But at the same time, COVID brought gas expenses down (less driving). I average $1000/year in gas costs. I expect it will go up soon due to needing to drive more now.
> But to be clear you're an outlier.
Sure, I'm an outlier in that I actually track my expenses. Everyone I know who tracks auto expenses has turned out to be an outlier ;-)
Eh, I posted it and removed it, given that prior owned cars is often used by sites to verify identity.
Let's just say it's one of the top Japanese auto manufacturers.
Generally, Toyota and Honda will give you good results for their signature cars (Corolla, Camry, Accord, Civic). Subaru, for some years and models do as well. I think Mazda and Nissan are a tier lower, but there may be exceptions (in model/year combination).
One tip: Try to avoid cars with chains. That's an expensive, mandatory maintenance.
I can't see how. New to new, a cheap ICE economy car can still run low $20s and your total fuel costs over 3 years will probably be under $2k. And even a cheaper EV like a Chevy Bolt won't make up the difference. It seems like the gap only gets worse when comparing higher up the price curve hybrids to their EV cousins.
Tempering my sibling comment, I could believe they probably have lower maintenance needs on more expensive stuff, but that's precisely who you're not selling with lower cost of ownership. I'm with you: my 10 year old car cost me 17k, and in the past 10 years I have spent no more than 7k on fuel. I've done annual oil changes, replaced a set of tires, and replaced a pump for windshield washer fluid one time.
My electric co. has a tool for estimating your monthly fuel savings: $15 monthly for me. That's probably the cost of food my toddler smashes up and throws on the floor in the same period.
I totally believe this if the vehicles have similar initial costs, and I can imagine that if the EV has higher re-sale value used, it might help too.
But I have a hard time seeing how you can make up the price difference between a relatively reliable compact hybrid and its EV version - take a Kia Niro (just because offhand I know it comes in EV and Hybrid): Hybrid is like $27k, EV is like $40k (though hybrid used to be more like $24k). If you own for 10 years what's going to eat that $13k difference? Just better resale in 10 years? Oil change once a year, a few medium repairs, and cost of gas vs electricity don't get you there.
National average electric cost is above $0.12 kWh, I think closer to $0.16, on top of that I think tiered pricing is common. And hybrids often beat 30 mpg.
For a car where electric is $40k and hybrid is $27k like a Kia Niro, it looks like your numbers would produce a payback period on the electric close to 10 years, but longer the less you drive. But that doesn't even get to including potential returns on the $13k saved at the beginning.
It is a ton more when the parent states how much cheaper and easier they are to manufacture. 100x fewer parts and yet they cost more? How does that make sense.
Because the resources to make batteries are expensive to mine and refine...
But come on, is it really that hard to believe? Look up the internals of an ICE and automatic transmission and compare those to an electric motor and single stage gear box.
We could debate over whether a battery pack is a single part or many, but still, those are completely potted and welded assemblies. Failures outside of normal wear are rare.
Except no one knows in what shape batteries will be in 10 years (current 10yo evs are no comparison). Usually there is a 8y guarantee on battery packs but wonder what that covers. Replacing batteries will be overly costly, if you can even get the parts and a mechanic to do it for you.
We have a pretty good idea at this point. Batteries should last longer than the average lifespan of the car. There will be a bathtub curve for sure, but generally, it's not a huge issue. My 2013 leaf battery still has 80% and while its an issue for the leaf and it's already dismal range, it's not a huge concern on cars that have 100s of miles of range.
This point seems overrated. Service on a modern ICE car is pretty minimal, and I don't see it as something manufacturers really care about. Maybe dealerships, perhaps.
As I posted elsewhere, I've always tracked my expenses. From 2011 to 2018, I spent about $2300 on maintenance and repairs. That's parts, labor and oil changes. And it was a 2003 car, so fairly old.
Look up reliable cars. Buy them used. It's much cheaper. I have the numbers going back to 2007.
I've needed about 2 repairs on my 13 year old ICE vehicle over those 13 years, and one was under warranty. I think it'll need some more work soon, but still, it's not a lot of repairs.
Hell, I bought a new high performance vehicle. Drove it up to the dealership for its 5k oil change. They could easily have said "sure, no problem" and charged me $150ish for the privilege.
"Sir, unless you've been tracking the car and driving it very hard, 10K is the oil change interval. Sorry you wasted your trip".
Not surprising. Phone upgrades in the last 5 years have been barely worth it. I'll be to first to criticize and mock The Google, but I've been plenty happy with my refurbished Pixel 5 that I not only plan on running it into the ground but getting another one if it finally croaks or loses too much battery capacity. Yes, I could just get the latest Pixel when that happens, but why switch from a phone that I know intimately that does everything I need?
Perhaps another contributor to the decline may be that the olds who didn't own a smartphone either have one by now or they're dead.
I'm starting to get nostalgic for the early days of smartphones (2008-2014 or so), back then every year the phone you upgraded to was miles ahead of the previous generation device. I remember walking into the Apple store a few weeks after the iPhone 3GS came out and being blown away by the performance compared to my iPhone 3G.
Phones have gotten way better since then but they also became boring and commonplace. Back then all the power users either jailbroke if they were on iOS or installed CyanogenMod if they were on Android. My 3 fondest memories of that time were:
1. Getting BiteSMS on my iPhone 3G: BiteSMS was an alternative SMS app that offered quick replies, something the native messenger didn't offer until a year or so later. I felt so cool at school when my friends saw the pink logo on my dock instead of the green one.
2. Hacking Multitasking on the iPhone 3G: IIRC when iOS 4 came out alongside the 3GS, the 3GS has multitasking but they never backported the feature to the 3G. When I jailbroke iOS 4 on my device it gave me the option of enabling multitasking. Once I enabled it I realized why Apple didn't backport the feature, the 3G was so down on power compared to the 3GS that it completely crawled to a halt if you had more than 2 apps running.
3. Around 2011 I got a Samsung Galaxy S2 and after installing various ROM's and quite a bit of hacking I got Google Wallet to work on the device. I remember the first time I tapped my phone and paid for something it felt like magic. Now we all take it for granted with Apple Pay and Google Pay but back then there were barely any terminals to even tap your phone so getting to do that felt like black magic.
I'm on Apple's yearly upgrade plan and still don't bother. I'm not interested in a device larger than their mini form factor, and they keep a) killing the mini and b) making their devices larger. At the moment the mini I have is better than their SE offering. So why bother updating my phone?
And as you say, everything works fine enough for me, so there's no pressure for me to move off my stance.
I deeply miss the iphone 5 form factor, their current "mini" and SE are noteiceably bigger than that size. I'm guessing smaller phones don't get people lost in content as well as the larger ones, and that's why they're not being made anymore.
A number of years ago an observation I had was that people mostly binned into 2 clusters. One was people who tended to use their phone on the go & thus using it one handed, for instance while walking around. The other was people who tended to use their phone while sitting down and/or handing it off to their kids who were sitting down, so mostly 2 handed use. These two bins also corresponded with preference for smaller vs larger form factors.
At least in the US there are a lot more people in the 2nd category than the first.
I think you're right. Apple's solution to that problem is the Apple Watch. Buy a large phone that you use two-handed while sitting down, use your watch on the go.
I just got an Apple Watch earlier this year. I have a nearly four-year old iPhone SE2 that I love for it's smaller form factor. When I replace my phone I'm definitely going to get a larger phone, because after getting my watch I only use the phone while I'm sitting down and I'd prefer to have a larger screen.
I have an Apple Watch and as someone in the using it on the go category it's not sufficient. It either doesn't serve my purposes and/or is worse for most of what I use my phone for.
I'll catch up on emails, msgs, social media, HN, etc while walking to my next thing. I *could* do *some* of that on my watch but it's objectively worse experience wise.
One issue is that your Pixel 5 won't get any more security updates (past October 2023). My wife's Pixel 4A is in the same boat - perfectly fine except no more security updates. Doesn't matter much right now, but will gradually start to matter over time.
That's true, though I kind of don't care. Many people of course do care. My risk tolerance is higher than most. I suspect companies like The Google hold security over people's heads in order to effectively inject code and encourage buying new phones. If I haven't installed new software in a very long time, and most of what I use is FOSS, and I rarely ever update my apps, and there's no reason to believe there's any vulnerability, then I'm pretty lukewarm on changing anything.
That said, I have been contemplating a migration to LineageOS, which would provide security updates beyond October 2023, and possibly make my Pixel 5 even better than it already is.
> That's true, though I kind of don't care. Many people of course do care. My risk tolerance is higher than most.
It shouldn't be - common smartphone malware attacks now steal banking info, personal info, and even look for sexting pics that are used as blackmail.
> I suspect companies like The Google hold security over people's heads in order to effectively inject code and encourage buying new phones
The former is nonsense but the latter is kinda true. Or rather, manufacturers bake the cost of updates into phones, which are already low margin devices. This encourages shorter lifespans, which is actually a problem for Google.
> there's no reason to believe there's any vulnerability
There's always going to be vulnerabilities. And, they'll likely come via web views, not through attacks directly on the app.
All it takes is a service you use that embeds a webview (tons of them), to get SCA'd or injection attacked, and you've got a huge problem.
They're not so common anymore, largely in part due to focused attention on that attack surface and continual software updates (!) via the playstore - google decoupled the webview rendering libraries from the os. Malware such as SpyNote/CypherRat is commonly a sideload attack, but occasionally webview rces have been used to deliver it and others.
But as mentioned above, webview malware is rare today, largely in part due to fast patching and updates!
And why does that problem roll downhill to me? If Google can't convince me to upgrade they should be supporting devices longer.
Obviously I know they won't, because they want me to stay on the upgrade treadmill to generate profits. And realistically, even if it's only a small chance, any security issues could potentially cause unauthorized access to my banks accounts or whatever, so the short term pain of upgrading is probably worth it.
But on principal, this should not be allowed. We desperately need laws in place that any product that is not perishable needs security support for at least 10 years. We're digging ourselves a hole of e-waste for no reason other than shareholders demand it.
as a Pixel 4a owner myself, I was caught off-guard a bit that updates were EOL this fall "already"—the past three years have really flown by.
While I'd always previously driven either a pre-owned model or a new, on-production mid-grade, the announcement of the Pixel 8 road map with seven years of updates sealed the deal for me. I went the full monty for the Pixel 8 Pro with 1Tb storage.
It is a little big for most of my back pockets when I'm on the go, but since it's very close in dimensions to the Nokia 7.2 that I used prior to the 4a, it's already feeling quite natural in the hand.
And having the flagship optics package is pretty cool; something I'd always given up with the previous scheme.
But if the SLA had just been four or even five years I don't think I would have made the same choice.
(And don't even get me started on how the non-flagships have crap options for storage: 256Gb is not enough for active mobile users, but that's usually the cap unless you pop for the flagship. Grr.
The first Pixel is still getting updates if you install LineageOS https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/sailfish/ and I'd expect the Pixel 5 to similarly live on past Google's official end of life.
Reading this thread reminded me to check my Pixel 5 (primary phone, purchased new just over 3 years ago) for updates. And to my surprise, there was a Android Security Update available which, now that it has been downloaded and installed, is dated Nov 5, 2023! Maybe that'll be the last one this phone gets, but maybe not.
Anyway, I'm perfectly happy with my Pixel 5 (aside from slightly declining battery performance, it's "as good as new"); I even bought a "excellent" refurb'd Pixel 5 9 months ago to use on a second/backup line (I was also thinking to use one or both for anticipated trade-in's on Pixel 8's, but with nominal updates all in the rearview mirror, Google's trade-in value has declined to negligible, so I plan to just keep using the 5's; the cost of the 8 vs it's value add was not compelling). 8GB RAM and 128GB of local storage is plenty for my needs, and I certainly don't want a bigger phone!
As the technology matures, you don't really need to upgrade it every year. You can already see that the updates in phone are incremental. For a person updating their phone every 3 years, it's a big update but that's not the case anymore for a person upgrading their phone every year.
I basically ran my Galaxy S9 into the ground before replacing it last January. I replaced it with a Xperia 1 III because I didn't see the point of paying a extra $500 to get the IV. The new phone runs noticeably smoother than the old phone, but not by a game changing amount, nor by the amount one would have come to expect from about a 5 year leap forward in technology.
The processor is faster when compared to a 2017 phone and the camera is much better when comparing images side by side. I wouldn’t have noticed but I put a Motorola Android 2017 next to a iPhone SE 2020 and it became very noticeable.
I know a number of people, myself included, who have been waiting for the return of decent mid-range phones before getting a new one.
Right now, there are very few options for people who want a reasonably sized phone, offering reasonably good performance, at a reasonably low cost, with reasonably good durability, with reasonably long software support, from a reasonably trustworthy manufacturer.
If it wasn't for the price I'd recommend a folding flip phone. I've had a folding phone for 2 years and all I have had to change out is actually the screen protector every year. It doesn't like the flexing, but they are cheap and take 5m to swap
In my experience, it's only one very specific type of person who wants that. Usually male (phone goes in front pocket) and older (at least older than gen Z, rarely watches videos on mobile devices). Uses smartphones more as a utility/tool instead of as an entertainment device.
Which fits that apple actually released another phone with that form factor after the 13 mini: the iPhone SE 3 is also this small and it is more recent than the 3 mini. I just didn't list it because I dislike the large bezel and I think from a performance perspective, it's strict worse than the 13 mini.
But that phone fits the demographic, because those people also don't switch phones every 2 years.
Phone sizes nowadays make me furious. I bought a Pixel 6 one year ago, because "on paper" it looked similar to my Pixel 3a. Just 1mm here, 1mm there. But it actually feels way much bigger and heavier in reality. Impossible to conveniently use it with one hand. (Not possible to verify at shop how it would feel, because all shops have those large anti-theft thingies glued to the phones).
Effectively, the Pixel 6 became my "tablet" at home (or a "camera" when travelling), and I still use Pixel 3a as the default on-the-go phone.
We desperately need 3.5-4 inch phones. My iPhone SE with 4.7 inch screen is too big to use comfortably (I can’t reach the opposite corner with thumb and I am a male with average size hands) and I also have Unihertz Jelly 2 which is 3 inch screen, which is smaller than you’d want, but not unusable. Where is the middle ground? The first iPhones with 3.5-4 inch screen were if a PERFECT size! Why can’t we make nice things anymore?
Yup, originally had Nexus One, found out it couldn't be upgraded after a couple of years because of the decision to make the installation space so small. Upgraded to Nexus 4. Battery expanded like a blowfish after a year. Bought a Nexus 5. The Gorilla glass wasn't as durable as my clumsiness confirmed. In between the 4 and 5, bought a Nexus 7 (I think, it was a pad device), it's display stopped working almost 1 year to the day.
Back to the Nexus 5, after dropping the 5 accidentally and destroying it, upgraded to a mid-range LG phone. Wow. It was great. Still works like 5 or 6 years later though 2 years after buying it, LG announced they would exit the smart phone business. That was a blow.
The LG will works but is slow now so the only option left was a Samsung phone, mid-upper range. About a year later so far so good but I had to disable a thousand crap apps they install and revert a thousand more crap default settings. Worse than buying a new Windows PC which is why I use Ubuntu Linux on my PC.
As people go longer between upgrades, phones depreciate less, the phones become more durable and better supported; their price sensitivity ought to go down not up.
I also don’t see all that much reason to wait when you can always get an old model of phone. I also see tons of competition at the mid-range of the market anyhow.
Phones are feature complete. No huge compelling reason to upgrade. If you work for a living then it makes no sense to spend money on upgrading if you already have a relatively newish phone
No, there still is a reason to need to replace a perfectly good phone, and it is purely software related. Manufacturers stop supporting their OS for phones, leaving you with something obsolete with lots of security holes. App makers enforce a minimum version of Android.
Even if you can unlock your bootloader and install a new version of Android OS, you will still get screwed over by SafetyNet, good luck installing any banking apps.
Yeah Apple's Lidar sensor is one of the most compelling features on their phones. I'm seriously considering switching from Android to iPhone for the first time in my life in part because of it.
It improves general camera performance by having an accurate depth scan. Things like portrait mode and object recognition benefit.
The Measure app is quietly one of the most amazing apps in existence. You can get an accurate measurement of anything anytime! The lidar sensor makes it far more accurate and less finnicky than on the non-Pro phones.
Obviously on its own it’s not worth an upgrade but it’s a great sensor to have on a phone.
The last couple of times I upgraded, bloat in maps navigation was reason enough to upgrade to a faster phone. I don't want a sluggish UI while driving. Hoping Google doesn't cram much more ads or junk into the maps app or Waze.
OsmAnd is actually one of the main reasons I'm considering upgrading my phone. The 6GB memory in my P5a is apparently not sufficient to take a photo and not kill OsmAnd in the background...
I just "upgraded" my phone and for the first time my new phone is worse than my old one.
I only upgraded because I noticed my old phone (Huawei P20 pro) was no longer getting android updates and I was concerned for the security of it.
My new phone (pixel 8) feels worse in almost every regard.
I can't even customise the home screen as much ( Literally cannot remove a link to Chrome and other google apps ).
Given it's 5 years newer, it doesn't even feel any faster or snappier, the P20 pro did a remarkable job at remaining fast and having decent battery life.
It's a lot lighter, but aside from that it feels like a downgrade.
If a 5 year old phone can still hold up against a new phone, admittedly not the top of the range pixel 8 pro, but a new phone nonetheless, then why would you upgrade every 2-3 years?
> I can't even customise the home screen as much ( Literally cannot remove a link to Chrome and other google apps ).
Uh... I'm not following here. You definitely can. What are you trying to do, exactly? It's true you can't uninstall the apps, because they're in the ROM. But you can absolutely use whatever you want on your home page.
I have a pixe6 and the OEM launcher has a date at the top you can't remove or change and a google chrome search bar at the bottom that you cant remove.
You have to install a 3rd party launcher to remove them.
https://www.stuff.tv/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2022/07/Goog...
Well, OK. The Google launcher app has... a Google search bar. But again that's just an app, and you can change it. And have been able to for years and years. What's the actual complaint here? I mean, the original complaint was that you can't install your own apps on the home screen. So how is it wrong that the mechanism to do so is to... install your own app?
To be glib: The contention was that you can't change this stuff. And your response is "That's right, you can't change it! You have to CHANGE it to change it!". So... just change it?
"I can't even customise the home screen as much ( Literally cannot remove a link to Chrome and other google apps )."
I was simply clarifying the point the OP brought up. You literally cannot remove that search bar from the homescreen
https://support.google.com/pixelphone/thread/133065648/is-th...
And my point stands, with the Pixel launcher you cant change either of the features mentioned.
And an aside: Interesting how you made me and the OP sound deranged because we don't want to install a 3rd party service to customize the use of our phones. Great Convo
> And an aside: Interesting how you made me and the OP sound deranged because we don't want to install a 3rd party service to customize the use of our phones.
Fair enough, but I was trying to phrase it as a gentle joke.
I mean... you're trying to "customize" them to make them use "3rd party services"! That's the whole point! That's what you want! You want something not-Google, and you're mad that the mechanism to do so is to... not use the Google app.
I mean, you get that that's hilarious, right? Do you get likewise angry (maybe you'd say "deranged") that Microsoft has a Bing search bar on the desktop, or non-removable OneDrive integration in the file browser? That Apple sets you up with an account by default when you unbox your iPhone?
In point of fact, and being completely serious here: of all the major-vendor client platforms out there, Google Android is by far the most customizable in the sense of "removing the vendor's own app integration". Go try to swap your browser on iOS. I really don't understand why you're so upset.
Again I didn't mention any angst over the restriction I was simply reinforcing the OPs point that those items are not negotiable.
And I really don't see how the points you brought up are comparable. The bing search bar is removable and the iOS sign in is required for functionality.
The issue at play here are features that have nothing to do with functionality and are locked in eating up a large space on a limited space device.
This is just poor design from a UX perspective but great placement from a user habit and marketing perspective.
Its great that you degraded our comments/concerns as "hilarious" and that we are "angry" when the OP was simply sharing a subjective experience, with one part that is factually correct.
I was in a similar boat. My Galaxy S9+ was in its 5th year when I learned about the security update stoppage. I went for a midrange Pixel 6a that approximates the flagship of 2018. I'm not sure if this is due to getting used to the Samsung UX style after 9 years, but I find some choices Google made to be less intuitive or smooth, though I've gotten used to it. The only thing I maaay look for in my next phone which I don't currently haven't yet had is a 120hz refresh rate - but I might not want the extra power draw. So I'm satisfied. The extra battery life is a huge QoL improvement.
Just take the Chrome icon, hold it with your finger a sec, and drag it to the top of the screen where there's a box that says "remove" or something like that. That works for me on my Pixel
I upgraded my P20 pro to a Samsung S20FE, and it felt like a downgrade. My wife took over my P20pro, and she's still rocking it, more than 5 years later. The screen is cracked in a corner, but the phone trucks along like nobody's business.
That was a seriously underrated and good phone. I'm 2 years on my Samsung and I hate it so much.
I had two P20s, probably my favourite phone I owned. Both died from water damage after about a year, which never happened to me with any other phone - not sure if I got unlucky or they have a particular design flaw here.
Yeah, I'm pretty happy with the latest SE model. Absolutely do not want a phone the size of the new flagship models. Prefer touchid to PIN or faceid, which rules out the minis.
If you want to sell phones, give people a reason. Have your phones do things that others cannot (and not just adding differential features with Tesla-style arbitrary software limitations).
Nobody is addressing the market that One Plus used to target. I'd be genuinely excited for:
1. Premium specs at a good price. Indulge on the CPU & RAM, save money on the physical materials. I'm adding a case anyway, I don't need expensive aluminum.
2. A rootable device (i.e. unlocked bootloader and downloadable factory images to restore if needed). Root friendly would be even better. This is even more important now that Google is removing features and cracking down on legitimate things. Try recording your phone calls in 2023, even though this was trivial to do 10 years ago.
3. Rear fingerpint sensor
4. Left-aligned camera notch
5. Headphone jack
6. SD card slot
7. Modularity, or at least a replaceable battery
8. First party support for Graphene OS and/or third party ROMs would be killer
9. External display support. 10 years ago I could plug in an adapter and get HDMI and it worked wonderfully. Now Pixel phones won't do that at all without special crappy hardware. Samsung is at least working on this with Dex, but even simple display mirroring would be great.
What upgrade? There's not a phone on the market that's meaningfully more compelling than my Pixel 5a. Maybe if I gamed on my phone or something, it would matter? But my camera is already better than I could ever reasonably need. My processor is fast enough to do everything I need without skipping a beat. I don't really watch movies on my phone but the screen is still probably the best screen of any device I own. The only things that could upgrade would be I/O and battery, both of which modern phone companies refuse to upgrade.
Same. Pixel 5a will be my primary until it's unusable. It's the most perfect phone there is right now, and I've tried a lot of them.
Rear fingerprint sensor is amazing, especially with the case. I don't even have to think about it because my finger naturally lands there and it unlocks quickly and accurately while I'm lifting the phone. The in-screen fingerprint sensors are a giant pain in the ass that I have to think about and work for.
The camera notch is in the perfect spot all the way to the left so it doesn't interrupt the top bar. It has a headphone jack. The camera is pretty good and the phone size is good.
It would very much so be a downgrade for me to move to a newer phone.
This is absolutely it for me. I could upgrade my personal Pixel 5, but for the ~$1000 layout I'd be getting a device whose fingerprint sensor works maybe 20% of the time vs 98% currently. There's absolutely nothing compelling to me about a newer Pixel - it's only downside.
Me too, but I'll probably move on when updates end. This was my first pixel after being frustrated by even shorter update lifecycles from other brands.
Beware though, there are lots of posts about sudden death of Pixel 5a phones over on the XDA forum. Just a "black screen" failure to start. They even extended the warranty by 1 year for this particular issue, so it seems like a real hardware failure mode. So maybe this will not be a phone with staying power even for those not bothered by the lack of OEM updates.
I know I'm an old grouchy cranky so-and-so :), but the case for upgrade is really not compelling.
All the majors have followed Apple's lead and create crippled Flagship phones with no 3.5mm, no MicroSD card, and compromised usability. Meanwhile, they don't bring me anything I don't already have on my Samsung Note 8.
On the Apple side, my wife still uses iPhone XR. It's fine. It surfs, it banks, it calls, it messages.
Photography is the one area new phones excel at, but jeebus - For $1500+, I can (and will) get a nice real camera instead :).
My 12 Pro Max is basically the first phone that I don't feel compelled to upgrade even almost 3 years later. Besides the performance and the good enough camera, it also has proven remarkably resistant to the inevitable falls from a pocket/table with no broken glass so far.
I will wait for the next wave of edge-based AI applications that would take advantage of update Apple CPUs to upgrade. Probably in 12 to 24 months.
I bought refurbished iPhone SE 2nd gen from eBay for ~$130 in July 2023. Looks brand new. I use Chargie to extend battery life and a magnetic charging port adapter to eliminate charging port wear. When battery will wear out I’ll replace it with the one from iFixit. Let’s see for how long I can make this device last.
The latest versions of Android and iOS have finally built in battery management that does basically the same thing (they will not rapid charge over night, and will sometimes limit charge below 100%).
I'm curious to see long term how much these changes will help.
The Chargie is also useful if you want to set an arbitrary charge limit. iirc on Samsung you're stuck with 85%, can't change it.
Another key thing for the Chargie is that it will cut power after reaching its requested charge, and only resume charging again if power falls to a certain level. This prevents the "trickle charge to maintain the precise percentage" thing that is a real killer for batteries.
Latest version of LineageOS has a setting to limit charing up to a certain %, but also makes sure it hits the max when you wake up (based on your alarm).
I was so sure that my iPhone did that for me. I have setup one shortcut to send a notification when I reach 35% (to not go too below) and another one when I reach 85% (to not go too above). Since I'm in front of a computer all day, I never charge during the night anymore.
Nope! The iPhone SE (2nd edition) is still supported by the latest iOS version (iOS 17), and even when it isn't, Apple ship critical security updates for older iOS versions. My iPhone 6S (released 2015) is still getting security updates.
Upgrades these days have become so incremental that it doesn't make sense to upgrade as often.
I got my current phone (S23 Ultra) for the stylus and due to a preorder sale, but otherwise it's just as usable as the previous one and even the camera improvements aren't that meaningful nowadays, with the existing quality mostly being squandered by compression in messaging apps (especially in WhatsApp). I don't see myself wanting a new phone unless this one's screen gets damaged enough.
The only interesting development in phones to me is folding devices, but I think they're still a bit immature.
Maybe this has something with the norm being +1000$ flagship-phones?
Maybe it has something to do with state of the world and the recent price hikes?
Maybe it is the lack of new features or wow factor?
I feel like most techs keep our phone a bit longer.
Me personally, I tend to upgrade every 3 generations.
I watch a lot of American Football (NFL) on TV and I've seen a ton of iPhone 15 commercials. Not a single one talks about a new feature. The only thing I hear/see and retain is that it's made from "titanium". They don't say it's lighter, they don't say it's stronger or better in any way. Since America is an "iPhone country", maybe that's why? Just terrible marketing.
If Apple with get their act together on an AI agent that lives on the IPhone and gives you privacy but can really do stuff - but that capacity would only work on new hardware - everyone would upgrade and Apple would be work 4 Trillion
The best AI tool in most places would be to drive you toward APIs or functionality that you haven't discovered yet. The best (non-AI) example of this is the Microsoft Office ribbon, which you can drive almost entirely by keyboard, and which makes for incredibly easy hotkey discovery.
I upgraded from an iPhone 12 Pro to an iPhone 15 Pro for the camera. I've got some large upcoming trips and felt the improvement was worth it. I love that now I only need a USB-C cable—that simplifies things a lot.
Day-to-day it doesn't feel that different. Slightly faster and slightly longer battery life. If it wasn't for the camera improvements I probably would have stayed with the 12 Pro for another few years.
Apple really does make spectacular products. They easily last a decade—I've got an original iPad Mini (2014) and a Macbook Air (2012) that have had batteries replaced once or twice, but are still functional. The longevity is just another reason I'll keep buying Apple products.
The main thing is the camera. I've got a Sony mirrorless that I've only taken out a handful of times since I got the 12 Pro.
I'm planning to sell or give the Sony away now. The workflow from my iPhone to Darkroom/Photomator on my computer via icloud is so much easier than dealing with transferring photos from the camera. Plus I'm not carrying around a bulky camera.
My Motorola G7 from 2018ish had not received a security update since 2021, and was feeling a bit sluggish. I considered upgrading, but I'm not keen on throwing away ~£2-300 when there is nothing technically wrong with the device, so I finally made the effort to wipe the stock android and install Lineage OS last week, and it was a lot easier than I thought it would be.
The only key thing which I almost messed up was to properly backup my OTO app (Aegis) and make sure I am able to recover it and doing a full backup to my Linux laptop.
Unless my phone breaks, I doubt I will get a new model in the next few years, there is nothing I need from a newer model.
Interesting. I had a Moto G7 and I was happy with it for a year until I broke the screen and couldn't find anyone to repair it. I replaced it with a similar Moto G Power since the G7 was discontinued and I ended up in the same boat as you: Android security updates ended but it still works perfectly for my limited purposes. I can't stomach the idea of paying several hundred dollars for a new device when this one works and I use it so little. I started an "Ask HN" thread about it last year (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33197291). I was looking at the LineageOS route but I don't think it supports this device. I'm still just hanging onto this thing and trying not to worry about it.
Their version nomenclature is confusing. Mine is a "G Power 2020," so it's different and I don't see it on the LineageOS Wiki. Maybe it will eventually get supported(?).
Which iphone 12 pro do you have, I also have the 12 Pro and I'm ready to upgrade just based on the lack of storage and other oddities that I feel would be addressed by getting a faster phone.
WhatsApp can become unusably slow for minutes at a time, apps I just used will close due to limited RAM; mind you I don't have a single game on my phone, I have bank apps, store apps, and messaging apps mostly, along with various utilities apps, like PW manager, smart home stuff, and various productivity apps (MS, Google suites). Nothing feels like it should be this terrible, and yet somehow its become a little too slow and jittery.
Same here! Although USB-C seems enticing, I think i will hold out one more year, since that alone is not really worth the € 1k upgrade. Other than that, I dont really see any innovations.
I feel like 2020 has been a tipping point for smartphones. Since late 2020, most phones above $500 have nice display with a fast refresh rate and take decent photos in all conditions. The RAM and CPU are plenty good enough to check Google Maps or browse Reddit in bed.
I guess power users can look into foldables, but for the rest of us upgrading a phone that's less than 3 yo is only a marginal update. The prices are relatively high too, so it's hardly worth it.
I have an iPhone 12 and still can't bring myself to upgrade to a 14 or 15.
I spend a decent amount of time in the backcountry and the satellite communication feature would at least bring some peace of mind, but even that is not enough to justify the cost of upgrading.
The people have spoken they want big phones, I assure you that's not the reason they're not upgrading. Apple tried making a small phone, and there just wasn't enough interest to justify it. The trade offs, mainly battery life, just aren't worth the smaller screen, not to mention most OSs and apps are made with larger screens in mind.
I just got the newest iPhone and I am struggling to notice any difference in capabilities from my old one. I know they exist on paper but when actually using the device it’s hard to tell.
It feels like it’s been this way for a while. I have friends that have very old smartphones, like 3 or 5 years, but they don’t mind.
If this was 10 years ago their smartphones would be practically unusable from a lack of processing power and battery life.
In the enthusiast car world there's a growing trend called restomodding, where you take a beloved classic car such as Porsche 964 and rebuild it with completely modern guts. Singer, which is probably the most famous restomodder, charges 6-7 figures for their cars and has a years long waiting list.
Someone should start a restomodding business for classic phones. Just don't charge 6-7 figures for them, please.
Apple needs to make the upgrade experience better, still. Having all the apps and settings transferred is one thing, but having to re-login to all my apps and add all my Apple Pay cards again is extremely tedious and painful. I get why it's like that due to security implications but there should be a happy medium or opt-in at least.
Making it more seamless should get more upgrade adoption.
There's almost no reason to buy a new one. I don't game or do anything particularly demanding on my phone (that's what my desktop or Steam Deck is for), my phone mainly just exists to rent-seek for the myriad of essential services we've decided need to be phone-only experiences.
Aside: I absolutely loathe how much stuff these days requires a phone to use.
How much of this is due to the carriers moving device contract lengths from 2 years to 3 years?
Been at AT&T forever, they moved their upgrade cycles on iPhones from 24 months, to 30 months, and now to 36 months. Presumably because an iPhone costs more than it did 5 years ago but I'm still paying the same monthly that I was 5 years ago.
That's my thought as well. Although probably part of the reason for them extending the cycle is that consumers are more comfortable with the idea of keeping the devices longer.
And, tbh, that makes sense too. Three year old phones can still run the latest software and still have pretty good performance. The newest are better and will certainly have better cameras, but the drive to upgrade every other year feels excessive now.
I was using a Oneplus 3T that was a handmedown, about a year ago I upgraded to a iPhone XSMax which was another handmedown. I intend on using it at least another another 2-3 years until my next handmedown will be a iPhone Max Pro 13. One thing I have noticed, if you buy a top of the line phone, it will typically last 5 plus years with no problems and incredibly little difference from the newer models. I have no idea how they can innovate the physical phone anymore, everything they do now is mostly cosmetic and the software side gets more attention, the camera does improve but not enough to warrant an upgrade every year. Perhaps this is it for the phone market?
> "Improved durability with stronger build quality, less impressive upgrades among new smartphone releases, and an uncertain macroeconomic environment have all contributed to the malaise we are seeing in the US smartphone market."
Seems about right. The value prop for phone upgrades hasn't felt great for a while. Prices are higher but what was the last killer new smartphone feature? Feels like we are waiting for some new technology to make phones exciting again (or change the category in a big way).
My S10e is a reasonable size in my pocket. It has a headphone jack. It has an SD card slot. Any new Samsung phone I buy will be missing these things, and I'll be forced to pay hundreds of dollars extra to increase the on-board storage that will still be far less than the 512GB sd card I've currently got in there.
And I could try switching away from Samsung, but then I risk losing even more features I take to be standard, like wireless charging.
The phone still works just fine, it's fast enough for my needs (although the battery is certainly worse than when I got it). I would be more than happy to pay like $100/yr for "extended" support on it to still get repairs and security patches, rather than having to chuck it in the bin.