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This doesn't mention accumulation at all. My understanding is that these accumulate in your body and are fairly difficult to get rid of. From that perspective Ars' arguments about allowed daily intake levels don't make much sense. If they accumulate, you'll get 1000x the amount by eating a piece every day for 3 years.



*What is this article?*

This is a chocolate company PR plant article, which have been hitting the presses hard with this message. It is disaster management / emergency PR.

They don’t want to discuss bioaccumulation of heavy metals because it would be very bad for business.

It’s not new. And it’s especially bad for children so you can imagine what the chocolate industry worries about at night.

*Isnt all food bad in excess of RDA?*

There is a big difference between eating in an unhealthy way and selling a product that has known health effects that are especially egregious for kids, so don’t pay any kind to the other counterargument big chocolate likes to press: that any food in excess is unhealthy.

It’s now wrong, but it’s a classic straw man argument (or a cake or cupcake argument really). So then “should we make cupcakes illegal then?”

Well. Uh. Unfortunately: yes, if they contain large amounts of cadmium or any measurable amount of lead we absolutely should — no amount of lead in food is considered “safe” especially for kids.)).

*You must hate chocolate.*

I love chocolate. Why can’t we process this stuff out of it so we can enjoy it properly? Anyone an expert in heavy metals removal from food? Save chocolate please. The world needs you.

*This is just one article on one piece of research.*

A few earlier articles and research that bolsters the case:

https://www.confectionerynews.com/Article/2015/02/16/Lead-an...

https://www.reddit.com/r/YouShouldKnow/comments/10y9yhe/ysk_...

https://www.health.harvard.edu/heart-health/heavy-metals-fou...

https://time.com/6243073/heavy-metals-dark-chocolate-food/


>It’s now wrong, but it’s a classic straw man argument (or a cake or cupcake argument really — “should we make cupcakes illegal then?” (Uh. Yes, if they contain large amounts of cadmium or lead we absolutely should — you want me to give lead paint in food to your kids?)).

It's ironic that in the course of calling out a straw man, that you went with an example that's the easiest to defeat. What about tuna? They also contain large amounts of heavy metals, so much so that some authorities recommend you only eat a few cans a week. Should we banning tuna as well?


Actually, yes, but more because we're causing the species to disappear and they're an integral part of the worldwide biosphere. Systems of systems are kooky.


I suppose the difference is that we openly acknowledge the risks of eating wild fish and dissuade people from consuming too much.


This is the answer.


The selenium in certain fish (particularly, it seems, tuna) may be enough to offset the adverse effects of the mercury present (known as the "health benefit value of selenium (HBVSe)": https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/publication/FS437


There’s also a big difference between ethically sourced, tester boutique chocolate and Hersheys/Cadburys type swill that isn’t fit for the name.


What does ethical sourcing have to do with heavy metal poisoning?


I've heard that mass-produced chocolate tends to source cocoa from the Ivory Coast, which has an alarming amount of heavy metals in their soil. This is just hearsay though, I don't have any specific sources that compare between Africa and South America.

https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Sediment-trace-metal-c...


> I don't have any specific sources that compare between Africa and South America.

I do, but they'll kill me (figuratively) if I publish them.

Which highlights the issue of dark | private data.

There's the public USGS National Geochemical Database: Soil for central north america: https://mrdata.usgs.gov/ngdb/soil/

There's a Geochemical Atlas of Europe: http://weppi.gtk.fi/publ/foregsatlas/ and a "work in progress" Global Geochemical Baselines database under development that will reference the available glonal surveys in the public domain, buuuut ...

If you want solid usable data from across the globe you probably want to access the pooled transnational mega mining companies database of surface geochemical results, back in 2008 the <redacted> companies portion was some 16 TB of raw sample results from every conutry and territories across the globe. Not complete of course, but once you mosaic that with other collections of a similar size .. that's something pretty neat.


I should have known, but didn’t, that international soil databases of this size existed in private hands. I’ve only seen the USDA surveys.

Kind of mind blowing.


from TFA:

> High cadmium levels are almost exclusively found in cacao beans grown in South America, with beans grown in West Africa showing little contamination.


Yes, the cadmium is from volcanic soil. That's not the only heavy metal.


This is just conjecture but, some of the other comments here have said that the lead contamination come from environmental contamination during the harvesting and fermenting process. If non-ethically sourced cocoa is coming from farmers earning below poverty level incomes for their crops, they may not have the ability or incentive to avoid this contamination.


Yes, there's a big difference. The "ethically sourced, tester boutique chocolate" is likely to have higher levels of heavy metals.

The larger companies are better able to setup processes to avoid the metals - go look at the original data and see.


I don't know if that's necessarily the whole story.

Boutique chocolates tend to contain more cocoa solids and cocoa butter. Larger companies tend not to use as much and instead have fillers like palm oil.

It's then no surprise that a boutique dark chocolate might have more contaminants than mass-produced milk or dark chocolate.


So then compare to the mass produced dark chocolate that doesn't have filers. There's tons of it, just plain dark chocolate chips. (As opposed to a candy bar.)


Hersheys actually has very few heavy metals. They come from cacao so cheap milk chocolate has far fewer than boutique dark ones.


You accumulate when you can’t eliminate fast enough. Some sources indicate you can safely eliminate up to ~30mcg of cadmium per day. Many of these bars appear to have 10-12mcg. So, if you ate one bar daily, you would never accumulate. Four bars daily would be a different story.


That’s cadmium. You don’t eliminate lead to the same degree.


It doesn't mention accumulation because that's already factored in. The levels they are talking about are a daily amount, not a single dosage.


Theoretically if I was consuming 3 teaspoons per day (that's 17g approximately) wouldn't I be in danger even if the cadmium and lead levels are under the FDA levels?


On the other hand, eating a piece every day for 3 years will likely bring other health effects (primarily, obesity and diabetes) that will ruin that person's life before the metals get them, not that they should ignore the metals, mind.


My idea of a "piece" and yours may differ dramatically. Nevertheless I don't think one "piece" a day will bring on diabetes or obesity.

Firstly, depending on the product and amount, you're looking at under 100 calories. Since daily requirements are something over 2000 calories per day the rest of your diet matters more.

Diabetes is a complex disease caused by excessive insulin production. Sugar is a part of the causal chain, but not a direct cause. See https://www.uhhospitals.org/blog/articles/2023/03/can-eating....

Yes, the levels of metals are important. I presume their presence is caused by metal components in their manufacture. Which begs the question if there are other products in play here not just chocolate.


Why are you saying that I'm suggesting one piece of chocolate a day will bring on diabetes or obesity? You may as well say that I'm suggesting they only eat one piece of chocolate a day and will die of starvation as it would be just as justifiable a reading.

No, eating chocolate every day (and in my mind I thought of the kind of chocolate confectionary one would buy in a corner shop) would suggest an unhealthy lifestyle in general and an inability to eat healthily, again, in general.

> Sugar is a part of the causal chain, but not a direct cause.

Again, why are you reading things that I did not state? I wrote "obesity and diabetes". Obesity is definitely a major risk factor, if not a direct cause of type 2 diabetes. The risk of it increases linearly with BMI.

To think I suggested that eating one bar of chocolate alone would cause diabetes is absurd.


Your follow up is perhaps more nuanced than your original post, and does a better job of explaining your thinking here.

I simply took your original post as it was stated;

>> On the other hand, eating a piece every day for 3 years will likely bring other health effects (primarily, obesity and diabetes)

I appreciate you glorifying your original intent.


That's fair enough, several people interpreted what was written in a way I did not intend.

glorifying? I don't know if that's autocorrect or a dig but it did make me smile! Anyway, no bother either way.


There is an inverse relationship between the level of metals and the total calories. Very dark chocolate would have much more heavy metals, whereas milk chocolate would be worse from a caloric perspective.

So someone who eats a bit of 80% chocolate each day would not be consuming that many calories, compared to the amount of heavy metals. Someone who ate milk chocolate would get very little in the way of calories, but quite a bit more calories.


Dark chocolate isn’t especially bad for you. Not that much sugar in it, really, if you stick to 80%+. The nutritional profile is a lot like peanut butter.. calories and fat yes, but gobs if protein.


Yes, though it seems that 80%+ is perhaps not so great from a heavy metals perspective...


Eating a piece of chocolate every day is not going to give someone obesity and diabetes.


Tell me, what is the correlation between chocolate consumption, frequency, and obesity?

Luckily, we have some ideas. From a paper titled Habitual Chocolate Consumption May Increase Body Weight in a Dose-Response Manner:

> More frequent chocolate consumption was associated with a significantly greater prospective weight gain over time, in a dose-response manner.

Do we know if "significantly greater prospective weight gain over time" can lead to obesity and diabetes? Well, yes, obesity is the result of significantly greater prospective weight gain over time. As to diabetes, from Why does obesity cause diabetes?:

> the risk of type 2 diabetes increases linearly with an increase in body mass index

[0] https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal...

[1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34986330/#article-details


> Compared to participants who ate chocolate less frequently at visit 1, those who consumed it more frequently were more likely to be younger, thinner, white, female, and smokers, to consume less alcohol, and to have diets rich in calories and fat, and low in vegetables and fruit (Table 1).

They 'adjusted' to try and compensate for this, but I don't think anyone would be suprised that respondents that had diets rich in calories and fat gained weight. There appear to be a lot of adjustments in the linked study. Besides this, the 'study' was just a survey (only from two out of four surveys due to missing data) and appears to not adequately take into account the serving size, exercise, or other dietary intake. Finally, it references three others with the opposite findings and hedges its conclusions with 'may cause'. I'm not convinced.


> Finally, it references three others with the opposite findings and hedges its conclusions with 'may cause'. I'm not convinced.

Not quite. The Finnish study was about chocolate versus other sweets. The "Candy consumption…" in US adults was also chocolate versus sweets. The Association Between More Frequent Chocolate Consumption and Lower Body Mass Index was indeed as the authors concluded - intriguing.

However, Habitual Chocolate Consumption May Increase Body Weight in a Dose-Response Manner was, again as the authors say, more rigorous, and also had larger numbers of participants (one of those three studies had 19 participants, the intriguing one thousands but still less). It also was designed to check the smaller studies.

I would also find it hard to dismiss the larger study because it uses a survey as the smaller studies used surveys too, and the intriguing study used a very similar questionnaire (if not the same, I'm not going to check any further).

> Besides this, the 'study' was just a survey (only from two out of four surveys due to missing data) and appears to not adequately take into account the serving size, exercise, or other dietary intake.

I've no idea why you've put quotes around "study", because it is a study.

Regardless, references to stuff like fruit and vegetable consumption are all over the paper, and there's this from the heading Assessment of Dietary and Chocolate Intake:

“Participants reported the frequency of consumption of specific foods and beverages in nine predefined categories, ranging from never or <1 per month to ≥6 times per day. Standard portion sizes were given as a reference for intake estimation.”


adding one piece a day per person to the national diet would probably have a dramatic effect, especially since that increase will be a bell curve too, with half consuming more.

Depends how you word these Q&As. Each individual has varying susceptibility to diabetes and heavy metal poisoning. You can't apply population statistics to individuals, except that population effects will find certain individuals, and except to say "more is worse, less is better" if it's something harmful.


You moved the goalposts from a piece a day to a bell curve of volume-- and added metal poisioning. No, a piece of chocolate a day would alone cause neither obesity nor diabetes.


it is false to say in the context of general advice for people without regard to where they stand diet and healthwise that a piece of candy a day won't cause them diabetes.

If all people took that non-fact to heart and started eating a piece of candy a day that they weren't eating before, without changing the rest of their diet, then we would have more people with diabetes and other health conditions, all without moving any goalposts.


This is also true for apples, but if you said "eating an apple every day for 3 years will likely bring other health effects (primarily, obesity and diabetes) that will ruin that person's life before the lack of access to medical care gets them" you would probably be mocked. You're not going to get fat from one piece of chocolate a day unless you're already on the edge, and if you're on the edge then it doesn't matter very much that chocolate is what took you over it.


No we wouldn't. If these hypothetical people are that close to the edge where 10 grams of sugar and 70 calories would do this, they'd develop the diseases anyway. So the number would be the same.


If someone is eating exactly enough calories to covere TDEE (total daily energy expenditure) and is thus at maintenance, given that 70 calories given in the most efficient form (carbohydrate) would mean little energy lost to processing, and 1 gram of fat is 9 calories, that's 7.7 grams of fat added every day. In 3 months, that's ~700 grams of fat added. 1 year, ~2.8 kilos. In 5 years, over 14 kilos.

That rough calculation won't be highly accurate for a number of reasons, but you could halve it and it still is very bad, thus it goes to show how easily fat can accumulate once maintenance calories are breached. Take care of the pennies and the pounds add up. Same goes for calories.


Eating a piece of chocolate a day will make you obese? Lol


As straw men go, it's badly cut. Firstly, do you think the people eating chocolate every day are less or more likely to be obese than those who do not eat chocolate every day?

Secondly, why would that alone make one obese? It's the correlation between a single data point and an outcome that suggests other behaviours which would contribute are also present (hence the first question).


Depends on the chocolate. Darker chocolates in small amounts per day can positively affect health.


Do you always follow up a straw man with cherry picking and hope it to be persuasive?

The vast amount of chocolate bought and consumed in every major economy is not dark, nor, if the figures are to be believed, are they being eaten in small amounts. Cadbury, Hershey et al are doing fine.


What is your point? Whether one eats a lot or a little chocolate, it should still be safe to eat.


I covered the calories part of safe here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38125905


Obesity and Diabetes aren't given just because you take sugar, it is the surplus that matters.


That may be why I used the word likely in the statement, to avoid black and white conclusions.


Dark chocolate is low in sugar and carbs, what you appear to be concerned with.


From the linked article:

> CR tested 48 chocolate products in various categories—from milk chocolate bars to brownie mixes, chocolate chips, and hot chocolate


We’re talking like 40 calories.


Ignoring the fact that I wasn't thinking of the total extra calories of anyone eating a piece of chocolate (a piece being undefined in size anyway) to end at that piece of chocolate…

The UK's top selling chocolate is Cadbury's Dairy Milk. It's 45 grams in total, and each of the 60 pieces is indeed 40 calories. Most people I know eat the whole thing, and those people are overweight, like the majority of the UK public, an obesity rate that is matched in many countries world wide. As of a couple of years ago, diabetes diagnoses have doubled in the last 15 years

> that over 4.9 million people are currently living with diabetes in the UK, with 90 per cent of those with type 2

type 2 diabetes being the one that correlates, if not is caused by, obesity. Additionally:

> 13.6m people are now at increased risk of type 2 diabetes in the UK

Again, this is a world wide problem[1]. Just the other day I was listening to the Huberman Lab podcast about eye health and the expert pointed out that the upsurge in diabetes in the US and elsewhere was threatening eye health[2].

So, you may say it's only 40 calories but the data shows that people are getting fatter, because those eating a piece per day aren't only eating a piece per day, whether that's chocolate or other things. If it were just the extra 40 calories there wouldn't be a problem.

[0] https://www.diabetes.org.uk/about_us/news/diabetes-diagnoses...

[1] https://www.worldobesity.org/resources/resource-library/covi...

[2] https://www.hubermanlab.com/episode/dr-jeffrey-goldberg-how-...


> One piece of chocolate a day will ruin someone's life

what?


Please, if you're going to quote someone, use the actual words they used.




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