Had a friend interning there this summer. The business model is essentially exactly what you guys are going after. I think it's a pretty smart model actually, but you'll have to work out how your product stands out from theirs.
On a side note, I think the "if you have a brain that is" comment is too condescending for me. I think HN users will understand that humor but you are going after commonfolk! Or maybe I'm just reading into it too much ..eh!
I too agree with the "if you have a brain that is" being too condescending. You have to note that humor is also culturally very specific and varies across demographics. What you think of humor may not always work. (I, for example, did not find it in good taste though I did understand that it was intended to be humorous).
We have looked at rateitall.com and it seems like they are doing some things really well. My feeling is that they're much more product/service focused than MakeFive is at this time, but that may change. We have talked about the notion of encouraging users to post their thoughts on some of these topics as well. At this time though, it seems that the dialogue on MakeFive is often more centered on pop-culture and such.
I think one big differentiator on MakeFive (at least I hope) is design and the general experience. We're really putting a lot of effort into making the site as intuitive and responsive as possible. In fact, after going live with the most recent rebuild a week ago, we're already reworking some of the primary pages to make them easier to use.
Your comment about the "if you have a brain" is certainly one we've considered carefully as well. Some likely won't understand or appreciate our particular sense of humor, but, we sort of think it's good to have a little fun with the whole thing. That being said, your point is well taken. :-)
Good call on the RateItAll comparison apsurd. I think MakeFive is off to a nice start, and they are doing some smart things around avoiding duplicates and running contests. A few other list building sites that either haven't quite made it or are still trying are: Listible (gone, but they were cool), OnMyList (getting buried in spam now but also cool), and Amazon Unspun (failed).
I was surprised to see Unspun turned-off. It always seemed like a good tie in to something like Amazon, even if it was under-developed. (I suppose they had bigger fish to fry.)
Top N lists get submitted to digg and reddit all the time. The comments for those are always filled with people hating on top N lists, but they wouldn't get to the front page without people enjoying them. I think a site like this could go far in terms of popularity. But the lists I always found MOST interesting had a lot of text supporting each item. I'd make sure that this is possible for people to really get what they want out of a top N list, more than needing to click on an item to get a description.
Also, maybe something about the ordering of the lists. All the lists I've seen so far go 1,2,3,4,5, and then runners up. What about 5,4,3,2,1? Kind of builds up the suspense. :) I might just not have looked enough about this one, though.
Agreed. I think it's something to do with the definitive seeming nature of lists, coupled with the need to keep them succinct that's appealing to many. (That being said, I'm of the generation that was excited to watch the top 20 countdown on MTV in the eighties.) We too would like to see more content on the pages, in part to add to how much readers can get from a topic; additionally, it would be great to get the density up for SEO.
The challenge for us is to find a way to collect this content, while appreciating the fact that many users don't want to do much more than click a single button. (I still appreciate what the folks at “Hot or Not” did by reducing the entire site to a one click navigation system.)
As such, our first approach was to reduce the barriers to entry, by cutting things out. In fact, our first iterations of the site had relatively exhaustive voting and content options. We found that most people avoided voting altogether as a result, or skipped adding the content. As such, we kept removing things and refining them until we found that people felt it was easy to click on something. (It seems that once the user now partakes in even a single list, they find that it relatively easy and as such start to get involved in others.)
We're now looking at how to include extended content, and our approach is to center this on the individual. They can list their thoughts on selections, and then maintain an area for themselves alone. As such, they can make relatively personal explanations for their selections, while still being able to include the community in their list. (We're hoping to roll this out early next week.)
We're looking at retooling our points system in tandem with this roll-out. In our minds, it would seem appropriate to reward those who add more content and thoughtful reviews of things. In the meanwhile, this leads us to eventually adding local components that would allow for more in-depth reviews of restaurants and the like.
1. It gives people a place for dialogue
Lists allow for a quick way to exchange ideas. You can skim a topic, make your picks, and then debate with others. It's a fun way to get a discussion going.
2. It helps brands reach their audience
We can stitch brands and advertising into the site in ways that connect with interested parties. (i.e. Dell could sponsor the Technology category for a month and build thought provoking contests around their brand.)
That's our thought right now. We're really concentrating on just getting users for the time being. Later, we're hoping to sell branded placement and sponsorships for companies who want connect with specific groups.
Sorry to hear that. If you have a moment, please give it another try and let me know if you run into trouble again. Be great to know if we're are having access problems from certain locations.
BTW - We're also adding a widget that allows people to take a list they've created on MakeFive and share it on their blogs/websites. This will both accommodate the user's own list, as well as grabbing the community's response to a specific topic.
We think this will be a nice way for people to take what would have otherwise been static content on their blog, and allow others to interact with it through MakeFive. Plus, it opens their list up to a larger community than their blog would have.
It's interesting that you say that. It seems that people who use it tend to get rather addicted, with some online for eight-hour stretches and such. That being said, it could be that the fun of it doesn't translate that well on a first glance yet.
One thing that we're working on aggressively is the ability for users to showcase specific lists they've created as a bigger part of their profile. Our feeling is that this may help us better appeal to the individual who likes to broadcast what they think. (i.e. blog as personal diary, Twitter for brief snippets, MakeFive as a way to list all of the things they love/hate, etc.)
Are there specific things that turned you off about the site?
I prefer discussion and elaboration to simple lists, so a site that shares abbreviated opinions to me is a poor man's forum. Again, this applies to me only, and I know that the internet by its breadth fosters simple, microscopic content.
I agree with you and I feel that this is something that we haven’t quite remedied yet.
The nice part with the brief lists is that it allows almost anyone an easy entry point to a discussion. Plus, the nature of these list forces users to condense their choices, which we feel is helpful. (It does make the site nice to browse and information easy to digest.)
But as I noted, we do recognize the need to make the dialogue more involved. The element that we’re adding next week asks users to explain why they made their selections, which we’re hoping adds to the amount of content as well as the depth of conversation.
For some this won’t appeal at all; however, for people as obsessive and particular as me, it will be nice to compile my list of the best entrepreneurial books I’ve ever read, alongside extended notes on why I enjoyed them. :-)
I think HN people just aren't your audience (or they'd be on digg, reddit, etc.) so I don't think you should take this particular feedback seriously.
On the plus side, I think its has potential to be another nice social hub on the internet. Have you thought about what kind of community you want to foster, and the impacts of what you're making them do? For instance, if you're making them flame each other over whether zelda or mario is better, make sure you enact some policy that forces the community to do so politely! Also, keep searching for how your users talk to each other, and add functionality that enables them to talk more easily.
I suppose so, but I really appreciate all of the feedback that’s been given nevertheless. The weird part about this project is that our users continue to surprise me--coming from all walks of life. As such, and suggestions we can get are helpful!
“Nurturing” the community is something we’re still really struggling with. We try to stay out of the way as much as possible, but do have to pop in every once in a while when things are taken in the wrong direction. It’s a pretty organic process, and we’re certainly not “there” yet, but I think we’re learning some things as we progress with this.
We do have a fairly loyal group of users who are taking a lead in keeping an eye out on behavior, and we’ve urged them to ask people to just be decent. It seems that we’re building a good relationship with a lot of the users, and it’s nice to have them working with us to make the environment a positive one.
I like the idea of finding better ways for them to interact. We’re working on a chat system that I think might work well here. It’s a feature that I find intrusive on something like Facebook, but we think will work better here as the users don’t have other more traditional means of communicating. (i.e. I’d rather talk to a close friend on the phone than chat on Facebook, but I might have a brief question that I’d like to ask someone I don’t know as well on MakeFive, without the bother of sending an email.)
As noted, we really appreciate the feedback. If you have an opportunity, please do join up and tell us what you think of the site--particularly the parts you find to not work as they should. :-)
It's certainly a powerful element. We toyed with toning it down a little, but reasoned that most would only be on the homepage for a moment. (It doesn't recur throughout the site.)
I don’t think that would necessarily be a bad thing. In fact, we’re pretty interested in seeing how we can tie MakeFive into other sites. If it turns out that the content our users create gets discussed on Digg/Reddit, or another site for that matter, all the better. (That just means more traffic to MakeFive, which makes us happy!)
Had a friend interning there this summer. The business model is essentially exactly what you guys are going after. I think it's a pretty smart model actually, but you'll have to work out how your product stands out from theirs.
On a side note, I think the "if you have a brain that is" comment is too condescending for me. I think HN users will understand that humor but you are going after commonfolk! Or maybe I'm just reading into it too much ..eh!