> Nobody wants these chemicals anywhere near them.
Don't we? I've got a bunch of non-stick pans that I love cooking on (I checked the brand I use most, and their pans are coated in PTFE, a PFAS). I've also got a roll of PTFE tape for plumbing around the house (basically ubiquitous for that purpose), and some PTFE tubing for hobby use (PTFE tubing is in the majority of 3D printers).
Your tape and tubing scenarios make sense. I'm not sure anyone can seriously require a non-stick pan though. Cooks managed without them for thousands of years by just paying more attention to their eggs, and comparably unsticky materials existed before the invention of non-stick coatings. The long-term negative impacts of teflon just doesn't seem to be worth the incredibly slight convenience they offer.
I wasn't talking about "require", I was talking about "want". The subjective experience of cooking on (and cleaning) a non-stick pan is an absolute delight in comparison. I don't want those chemicals in me, but I sure do appreciate them in my kitchen.
Maybe I'm just missing an implied "/s". Surely I don't need to spend too much time addressing how silly a comparison is between "I just need my next fix of heroin" and "I like scrambled eggs".
I don't even understand what convenience they offer. I cook a lot and find stainless steel just as easy to clean. Let it sit with some water in it after you take out the food, and by the time dinner is done it wipes clean with a sponge.
At the same time I don't have to worry about nicking or overheating the teflon, and stainless steel pans tend to have better heft and thicker bottoms.
Not to mention waterproof clothing, non-fogging safety goggles, temperature-resistant wire insulation, dielectrics, separators in Li-ion batteries and countless biomedical applications.
Fluoropolymers and fluorosurfactants have unique properties that make them very difficult to substitute. I'm not sufficiently informed to comment on the possible health impacts of fluorinated hydrocarbons, but I can say that a world without them will be poorer in countless small ways. That might well be a price worth paying, but we shouldn't pretend that it's an easy decision.
I feel this issue is over exaggerated. The study at EWG says that toxic chemicals are released in Teflon pans at 464 deg (C or F? article doesn't say), versus 680 deg for non-Teflon.
I don't think 99% of people ever get their cookware that hot.
Thanks for that info. I was aware that birds were sensitive to many chemicals but not to that degree. However, it likely explains an incident that happened some years ago. We saw a canary aimlessly hopping about on the nature strip outside the factory where I was working and we figured it was someone's pet bird that had gotten loose.
Anyway, a colleague caught it in his hands which was surprising given he wasn't that nimble. The bird didn't appear the least bit sick and he likely caught it because it was used to having people around. The aim was to return it to its owner if we could find the person (it was an industrial area but there were many homes in the street). Incidentally, we weren't bird owners so managing a lost bird was a new experience.
We borrowed a largish birdcage that hadn't been used for years, cleaned it up and bought special canary feed and a cuttlefish etc. from the local pet shop, and we hung the birdcage and canary in a partly-shaded area without direct sunlight just outside the factory door with a sign on it to the effect 'do you own this bird?'. Every night we brought the cage in and covered it with a sheet just as I'd seen my grandmother do with her canary when I was a kid.
This went on for about two weeks or so and the bird seemed well and healthy—and we'd gotten quite used to the bird happily chirping away outside the front door. One day I noticed fruit flies around a garbage can inside the factory area and sprayed inside it with normal household pyrethrin-type insecticide which is usually pretty innocuous (at least to humans). Moreover, I was well aware that the canary was in the factory albeit 40/50 feet away so I was careful and deliberately confined the spray to inside the garbage bin.
Next day when I came in I found the canary dead at the bottom of its cage and I was considerably upset over its death as I'd not only gotten used to having this cute little creature around but it was immediately apparent to me that my spraying could have been the cause although I just couldn't see how such little amount of spray would have traveled that large distance.
It would be interesting to know exactly how sensitive canaries are to pyrethroids and how others manage to keep their pet birds safe in these circumstances.
I think the bigger risks are in anything resembling disposable. Also, maybe getting people to understand how to care for their cookware better so it lasts 10+ years instead of 3-5 or so. I actually prefer stainless steel myself, my SO prefers non-stick. Before I was with my SO, I had a single 8" non-stick I would use just for eggs.
I'm as or more concerned about the plastics in food packaging myself. Hard to avoid with so much processed food in most grocery stores though. Wouldn't mind taking a few steps back. Considering we grow well more than enough food to actually feed the world at this point.
Ya, was even thinking the other day that I should just toss a few glass containers in my backpack when I'm going out to restaurants. I usually carry a backpack anyways, I'm not sure there's much value in me carting away leftovers in disposable containers. The amount of plastic everywhere is staggering when you start to take it into account every time you toss a piece of it out.
There's no good substitute for PTFE cookware. The modern "non stick" alternatives are stickier even when new and degrade quickly. There's no good substitute for PTFE in rain clothes either. PTFE itself is harmless, but the precursor chemicals are dangerous. I'd happily pay a lot more to cover the costs of their safe containment and disposal. Despite people calling them "forever chemicals", PFAS can be destroyed by processes such as supercritical water oxidation.
We've had perfectly serviceable non-stick cookware for ages - carbon steel cookware treated properly easily replicates teflon with a little oil or butter.
Before someone claims to the contrary - I basically only use TWO pans now for all my cooking - both 14" carbon steel pans I initially conditioned that have only gotten more non-stick as I've used them. I regularly cook over-easy eggs, scrambled eggs, and other foods that are apparently only possible in teflon non-stick pans if you believe the literature.
I've watched so many people scramble eggs every morning and leave half the egg stuck to the pan day after day. You don't have to live this way!
Before putting in your eggs, heat up the pan and put in some oil/butter. A spatula that can scrape well (flat-nosed, or moderately flexible plastic/silicon) is also helpful.
For a spell some years back, I had a game of "find the worst pan in the kitchen and see if I can cook my eggs without them sticking". Not quite a 100% success rate, but pretty close. (That was mostly scrambled, though. Fried eggs and omelettes are more difficult.)
It's true that a non-stick pan makes it much easier a beginner, but the downside is that said beginner will destroy a non-stick pan within weeks.
The problem with cast iron is that it requires work to season it properly and maintain it. People are lazy.
> There's no good substitute for PTFE in rain clothes either.
They used to use oil and wax. They were called oilskin coats. I'm not sure if it's because they are niche, but now such coats are pretty expensive. Problem: Cost.
So you're right in some sense - the alternatives don't provide us with the same level of cost and convenience.
Cast iron really isn't difficult to maintain, at least I'm lazy as hell and don't do anything special and mine are fine. I think cast iron gets a reputation for being this whole thing because some of us turbo nerd on it.
Yeah; it's hard to screw up cast iron seasoning once you know how to treat it, and basically impossible to ruin the pan.
The only way I've heard of people screwing up is by to using it infrequently. If you season with canola or vegetable oil, and use it every time you cook, then the patina takes care of itself.
To clean, scrape using chain mail or a plastic scraper, such as the ones from pampered chef or lodge, and be sparing with the soap. Do not put it in the dishwasher.
If you ignore the above, then scrape off as much of the old patina as possible, then coat lightly with oil + bake at 300 for an hour.
Compare the above to non-stick, where getting it near anything sharp destroys the pan, and you have to buy a new set every 1-5 years. Re-seasoning a pan is much less effort (and cheaper / more environmentally friendly) than shopping for a new one!
Yeah! You can pick up a plastic scraper at I think pretty much any grocery and they are so perfect for cleaning up in the kitchen, anytime something gets stuck. I guess the soap thing isn't a big deal these days and that advice came from a time where the soap was more caustic.
Also non stick burn when they get hot which is an awful trait in a pan. I cook some insane fish and beef and it is the most braindread process with a cast iron.
I got a waxed jacket a while back. It was at some trendy designer store I haven't heard of, and overseas. It was ~$80USD, and lasted 5+ years.
I don't think the issues for the well-known brands have much to do with the materials. Instead, I think it's because there are a few traditional brands using traditional (non-optimized) production techniques, then charging large margins.
That's fine if you want to pay for the best of the best, but it would be nice if there were a bargain route too. e.g., for iron cookware, two good brands are Lodge and La Creuset. Heirloom-quality Lodge pans start at $25; La Creuset is many times more expensive because of the [traditional] ceramic coating.
I don't know of a company that's comparable to Lodge, but that makes oiled/waxed outerwear.
Barbour traditionally made "oil coats" for fishermen. Then later waxed cotton jackets for farmers in the UK. They last for generations, you can rewax and repair them.
Belstaff made waxed motorcycle wear.
Both do amazingly high quality, if expensive, modern waxed and oiled cotton or canvas jackets and clothing.
So you would trade Teflon for a known carcinogen that’s linked to lung cancer? Also it’s more work to maintain a cast iron pan, you can’t exactly throw it into a dishwasher.
I have never spent more than 90 seconds cleaning our large cast iron pan. And that's only if it's really egged up. Whatever convenience we're talking about, it's trivial.
In my experience a properly seasoned, oiled, cast iron pan isn't materially different than a non-stick for cooking eggs (which is one of the stickier things you can do). It's much more flexible. You can bring it to 450-500F without killing adjacent birds, and you can put it into the oven. High heat capacity, better sear on meats. And you can use metal utensils. No matter how you damage it, an hour in the oven with a thin coat of oil and it's good as new.
I cook a lot, and I have no interest in non-stick cookware.
Tell that to the entire restaurant industry. The vast majority of cooking done on a stove in a commercial kitchen is done on various sizes of high carbon steel pans, and they are just as non-stick as PTFE.
