Anecdotally I saw the switch from normal bulbs to LEDs in my life and the lights break for me about as often. (One light broke in past month, still too lazy to buy a replacement.)
So how much more do I need to pay for 90% more efficient LED light that delivers on its "works forever" promise compared to a regular bulb? Also doesn't have flicker?
By the way, how dirty is its manufacturing compared to regular bulb?
Anecdotally, I mostly purchase Philips Hue, and one has yet to fail. Yeah, they are not cheap, but I’ve some of the lamps for many years and they are still doing fine. They have certainly outlasted incandescent bulbs, and at a fraction of the electricity consumption. High quality LEDs are widely proven to be a sound investment. A EUR 2 LED bulb may not fall into the “High Quality LED” group. All of this is widely researched and peer reviewed.
The overall ecological impact of using LED bulbs is significantly improved over incandescent or fluorescent lamps.
Why is it ecologically better in manufacturing? A regular bulb is tungsten & glass, and LED is what?
Unlike regular bulbs it's hard to find out manufacturing details for LED, but they usually seem plasticky (= oil and all that) and I guess a lot depends on the kind of phosphorus used etc.
The significant reduction in energy use as well as the long lifespan of the lamps more than makes up for the metals used in the manufacture of the lamps.
If this genuinely interests you there is plenty of research available from reputable sources.
> The significant reduction in energy use as well as the long lifespan of the lamps
I meant manufacturing. Longevity we already discussed. LED lamps die on me on the regular and I am not buying a Hue, I need a dumb bulb with a single dim warm color without flicker that's all.
> If this genuinely interests you there is plenty of research available from reputable sources.
I could not find a good summary on LED manufacturing after cursory search, if you don't really know yourself then it's okay to admit it (but maybe don't claim they're ecologically better without knowing the impact of their manufacturing).
That’s cherrypicking, and also leads me to believe you are not genuinely interested in having and informed debate.
> I am not buying a Hue for that money.
> I could not find a good summary on LED manufacturing after cursory search.
I have, you must not have been looking hard enough.
I don’t know what to tell you, buddy. Enjoy your high electricity bills, or alternatively your life with expensive, flickering, poor quality LED bulbs, I guess.
I don’t really see this discussion going anywhere for either of us, so good luck with it all.
If you need a bulb that's rarely going to be on, and only for very brief moments at that, sure, an incandescent bulb may be more ecologically sound. But if you have issues with the ecological impact of the manufacture of LED bulbs, you can't use anything involving plastic or silicon, including computers.
So yes, it is cherry picking to single out LEDs while ignoring the far bigger impact of every other electronic device in the home. It's the same as people concerned about wind turbines killing birds while ignoring power lines, windows, cars and cats. The argument sounds very insincere.
Why rarely? Where I am it's pretty dark every night.
> But if you have issues with the ecological impact of the manufacture of LED bulbs, you can't use anything involving plastic or silicon, including computers.
Bring it up when we make computers of comparable capabilities from glass and tungsten I guess?
> cherry picking to single out LEDs
So sorry for sneakily cherry-picking LEDs (of all things!) in a thread about alternatives to LEDs under a link to the article that talks about LEDs and their downsides. Let's discuss plastic bottles and other environmental hazards instead.
Why rarely? Because you're talking about incandescent bulbs. The only way they're going to be more environmentally friendly than LEDs is in situations where they're rarely going to be on. Because they use a lot more energy when on.
So if you have a storage shed that you're only going to look in once a week during summer, and then only for a minute or two, incandescent bulbs may be a great choice. But not for a living room where light is going to be on every evening for hours.
> The only way they're going to be more environmentally friendly than LEDs is in situations where they're rarely going to be on. Because they use a lot more energy when on.
They use less energy if they are dimmed than when they are blasted at full power. They also allegedly last loads longer (will see).
Also, I am yet to see supporting evidence that LED bulbs are e2e more environmentally friendly in terms of manufacturing and clean recycling than say tungsten bulbs.
> So if you have a storage shed that you're only going to look in once a week during summer, and then only for a minute or two, incandescent bulbs may be a great choice. But not for a living room where light is going to be on every evening for hours.
The opposite. If I need to find something in a dark storage shed I need very bright white light for assistance. That's not great for the bulb. While the key benefits of the bulb is it's easy on the eyes, dims with absolutely zero flicker, easy to wind down to sleep. Completely wasted on a shed.
> They use less energy if they are dimmed than when they are blasted at full power.
That's true for anything, and not a difference between LEDs and incandescents.
> If I need to find something in a dark storage shed I need very bright white light for assistance.
Which you can get from a bulb.
> That's not great for the bulb. While the key benefits of the bulb is it's easy on the eyes, dims with absolutely zero flicker, easy to wind down to sleep.
Which you can get from a LED.
Both LEDs and incandescents can be bright or dim, both can be dimmable if you want them to be. LEDs offer a lot more control (some can switch between different colours, different colour temperatures), incandescent are more limited, but cheaper. And not as durable, and they waste a lot of energy when you have them on a lot when you don't need the extra heat they give.
So they're great for short periods when you need something simple, like in a shed, and not so great when you want them on for a long time or you want something unusual.
> That's true for anything, and not a difference between LEDs and incandescents.
Yeah, except LEDs don't dim, they just flicker on and off very quickly.
> Which you can get from a bulb.
Turning a bulb on full power suddenly reduces its longevity. That's the moment when most bulbs fail. I'd go with a LED in a shed. I'd go with a bulb if it's a room I am in often and I care about my eyes and sleep quality.
Dimmable LEDs do dim. And good LEDs don't flicker.
LEDs run on DC, so connected to AC power they need to turn that into DC. If you do that without a capacitor to smooth things out, you get flicker, which may be the case in cheap LEDs, but good LEDs will have a capacitor and therefore not flicker.
A LED lamp consists of many individual LEDs. Dimming a LED lamp involves turning off some of those individual LEDs, rather than supplying less power to each of them. A LED lamp needs to explicitly support that or it won't work. But those LED lamps exist. Similarly, LEDs that only produce dim light for situations where you only want dim light, exist.
Look, you are saying many things that can work in theory, but in practice all LEDs I have seen that cost reasonable money dim using PWM and have detectable flicker.
I know "good LEDs" exist but if we are talking a few dozens of dollars per good photography-grade LED fixture then we are at a point where the savings compared to running a dirt cheap regular bulb approach zero or even go negative. At least in reasonable time periods, maybe such good LEDs are cheaper in the very long run but that's not for sure (faulty units exist) and even if it was I probably wouldn't even live that long.
I've bought 6 RGB Led lights in 2015 and I have yet to change them. I use them all over my home on the daily with no issues, meanwhile I used to replace 1-2 incandescent bulbs per year at least.
Same here. I think I bought my first LED light around 2008, and I think it's still working. I have had some cheap LED lights overheat in fixtures that clearly weren't suitable for them, but when used properly, LED lights can last for a very long time.
Incandescents break constantly. Fluorescents occasionally. LEDs almost never, except in very specific cases.
If you do have a LED light break within a decade, my advice is to replace the fixture. Or maybe try a very different type of LED (a weaker one with different heat management) in it.
Honest question: why buy so many RGB lights? Is it for parties? Or it's just impossible to buy a good quality non-RGB light anymore because vendors/retailers push thick margin products?
I only use dim warm lights and dirt cheap regular bulbs work great. They last pretty long in that scenario (depends on the unit but that's also true for LEDs) and consume less energy too.
Sorry for the late reply: I bought LIFX lights because I wanted to have (almost) every bulb in the home remote controlled.
I spent more than I had to because high lumens RGB lights are more expensive then white-hot lights. LIFX lights are 1100 lumens, and I had to put 2 for every 1 non-LED bulb I had to produce the same amount of light.
OK, remote control is a use case. I am thinking of setting it up a different way to keep using regular bulbs but hadn't gotten around to it yet, home is small enough. I like dim lights indoors after dark so lumens are not an issue.
Anecdotally I saw the switch from normal bulbs to LEDs in my life and the lights break for me about as often. (One light broke in past month, still too lazy to buy a replacement.)
So how much more do I need to pay for 90% more efficient LED light that delivers on its "works forever" promise compared to a regular bulb? Also doesn't have flicker?
By the way, how dirty is its manufacturing compared to regular bulb?