I'm going to plug Coolify, an open source Heroku alternative (with Docker support too) that I'm using on a cheap $5 Hetzner server which is a lot cheaper than the equivalent Fly or Render etc service, and it really doesn't have much upkeep from me even if you add in the time setting up the server initially, which is like an hour, and afterwards, it Just Works™.
Lunni has got an interesting concept — and I can actually see some good uses for it!
Is the actual "production" workflow still pasting a Docker Compose file in? I would much rather have an automated deployment process that doesn't require human input, that way it can be scripted as part of CI/CD, etc.
Personally, I fell in love with `git push production` (naming a git remote `production`) to trigger a deploy. Ironically I didn't like this back when I first tried Heroku, but it's grown on me since. As of now, I have a custom git receive hook on my server (building a NAS from "scratch" using IaC on my home server) that triggers a redeployment using Docker Compose.
Also, you mention Swarm... what does Lunni bring with Swarm as opposed to simple Docker Compose? Does it distribute across multiple systems?
I'll start with the Swarm since it's a major point actually: Docker's Swarm mode is comparable to Kubernetes or Nomad: you can launch a cluster of servers and run your application there.
Unlike Kubernetes or Nomad though, it uses mostly the same concepts Docker Compose does, to the point that your development docker-compose.yml file will likely just work there (with some minimal tweaks). I love this website that talks more about it: https://dockerswarm.rocks/
Edit: As opposed to `docker compose up`, when running on a single server: not much. It will restart on server reboot by default, and allow you to run multiple replicas of a service (deprecated in Docker Compose), but that's it. Most important though, it would allow you to add more nodes later on, and it will then scale your services across the whole swarm – so you can start with just one server and scale to hundreds if needed.
> I would much rather have an automated deployment process that doesn't require human input, that way it can be scripted as part of CI/CD, etc.
This is almost doable with Lunni. This guide will walk through setting up a CI for a typical webapp that packages it in a Docker image and pushes to a registry: https://lunni.dev/docs/deploy/from-git/ (currently for GitLab CI and GitHub Actions only)
As for the continuous delivery, we're gonna have a webhook that you can call when your CI pipeline is finished. It's not exposed in the UI yet but I'll try to prioritize it (now that I remember I wanted to do it :')
`git push production` feels a bit easier, but I'm a bit concerned about bloat: for this to work, we'll have to bundle some sort of CI and container registry with Lunni itself. I think sticking with third-party CI is a more elegant approach here. What do you think?
> Most important though, it would allow you to add more nodes later on, and it will then scale your services across the whole swarm – so you can start with just one server and scale to hundreds if needed.
Have you in all honesty and with first hand experience, deployed and supported in prod on swarm over hundreds of servers?
Nope :') I do know a guy though, and I've heard good things. I'd love to hear about your experience too!
I know that it is possible to outgrow Swarm – I think that's a nice problem to have actually. We might include some tools for “graduating” from Lunni to something more serious like Kubernetes at some point.
You can set up a git hook on repositories that listens for the completion of the docker_build task and then redeploys the app while pulling new images?
How do Coolify and Dokku compare? I've been aware of Dokku for a long time already, however I've never been confident enough to rely on these interfaces to deploy applications, specially because of their business model to keep things going. I'll have to try them both eventually though, I absolutely hate PaaS honestly, the prices are all just too high, but the convenience is really nice when managing a multitude of services simultaneously.
I don't really have a business model. I do take donations from Open Collective (and Github Sponsors, which funnels to OC) and there is Dokku Pro, but those don't collect anywhere near the funds I'd need to stop my dayjob (at least now. Maybe someday?).
My business model is that code releasing is something I'm pretty passionate about. Dokku isn't even originally my project (Jeff Lindsay started it, I just took it over), but I've been working on it for almost a decade. It's open source and fairly simple, so even if something happened to me, others could theoretically continue the project on as desired (or build on top of it if need be).
I'd be interested in hearing any of your other concerns though :)
Oh that's really cool to know, wasn't expecting the Dokku maintainer to read my comment LOL. From what I had looked at some time ago I though the project was run with the profits from Dokku pro, although upon further thought I understand that that's probably not enough to keep someone working full-time on it LOL.
I checked the repo and yeah, it checks out, Dokku _is_ pretty manageable with a decently small codebase. Having a low bus factor is really important for me. I'll check it out soon, and hopefully leave a donation to help you keep the project going too :)
Nah Dokku really is mostly a labor of love. Originally I started working on it to provide a Heroku alternative for a group of students that couldn't afford what they needed to on Heroku (this was like... in 2014) and I've since been using it to run all my own stuff and the occasional client install when I do freelance.
I think overall Coolify is a bit more modern. It uses some different components (e. g. Traefik vs Nginx for reverse proxying), and includes a UI in its basic package (Dokku was CLI only for a long time, now they have Dokku Pro with a Web UI). Otherwise it looks like the architecture is pretty much the same.
Re: business model: both Coolify and Dokku are open source, so even if their development stops, you can continue to use them no matter what. (You do have to pay for your own servers though :-) So it's not a PaaS in the traditional sense (like Fly.io or Heroku), but more like “build your own PaaS” thing.
We'll also soon support nginx via docker labels, which will work around issues where Docker sometimes assigns random IP addresses (and unlock TCP/UDP proxying as well).
I can't say anything else about Coolify since I haven't used it in a while, but I'd be curious as to what other parts are more modern about Coolify than Dokku.
Wow, looks like Dokku got a lot of upgrades since last time I used it thoroughly. I'm wondering though, why support four different proxies?
About the modern part: that was my opinion based on the way I recall Dokku and Coolify, and a quick scroll through the docs of both, so I might be really wrong here! I definitely need to check out both Dokku and Coolify again sometime.
We support 4 different ones to give folks choice. Some folks want/need features that aren't available on one vs the other (traefik has a ton of features, caddy is simple to configure, nginx has a ton of documentation) so it made sense from that perspective. It was also easy to add once I had the pattern going (though the default has stayed nginx).
One of the main features of Dokku is it's extensibility. You can cut one part out and replace it with another quite easily, and proxying is an example of that. I think that flexibility allows folks to use it in more situations than one otherwise would, though at the cost of being more difficult to maintain (and harder to have cohesion between parts of the system at times).
Lunni looks really interesting! Looks like a Coolify competitor, I'll definitely check it out. Do you have a Discord to join? Coolify has one and I found it great to discuss the project and talk directly to the creator.
I used to use Dokku but I personally liked the GUI from Coolify so I've been using that. Nice to see that you have a GUI as well, makes configuring apps a lot easier.
Lunni is actually pretty young in terms of community (just me and a few friends now :-), so just a room in Telegram was sufficient so far, but I think it's a good time to start something more official.
Thanks, just joined. One thing I noticed is that the CI/CD setup for GitHub/lab is still based on the CI files themselves. What I like about Coolify and didn't like about others is that I could simply install a GitHub app to my account and Coolify would automatically pull my repositories and even set up git push to deploy for me, no messing around with CI files needed.
I haven't thought of an app yet, but a custom GitHub Action was definitely on my radar. IIRC this would still be a one-click setup, but more integrated with the Actions UI, and will be easier to extend / override later, if needed. What do you think?
Sounds good. I recommend going through the Coolify install and set up process (and adding applications and services, as Coolify calls them) which would give you more insight as to how they set it up.
By GitHub app I meant that Coolify makes you install its own custom GitHub app that then allows you to git push to deploy.
Personally I use portainer for basically the same thing. My only real requirement was that I could easily copy-paste in docker-compose files and have it just work.
I use caddy as the proxy, since I found the traefik configuration absolutely incomprehensible. Now I use only 2 labels to proxy instead of 15.
Caddy is nice, I've been playing around with it too and I love it. Perhaps we can port Lunni to use it, too.
Portainer is also cool – we're using it internally as an API, actually! I've been using it before starting Lunni and my only objection is the UI. Portainer is kinda like a Swiss army knife for containers, but with this power comes the complexity, too.
For example, to see service logs, you have to pick an environment, then go to Stacks, find your stack, find the service you need, open it and then you'll see the service logs button. In Lunni, you open your stack right from the dashboard and click logs button right beside your service name: https://u.ale.sh/lunni-screenshot-logs-button.png
Dokku doesn't have an _official open source_ UI. There are a few unofficial OSS ones (Ledokku is the latest) that I'm aware of.
There is have a commercial offering in Dokku Pro (https://pro.dokku.com). It's paid (one-time lifetime license) but only so that I can at least partially cover my development time on it. The project is enough work on top of Dokku that I feel it is justified, especially as there is nothing stopping others from doing so, OSS or otherwise.
https://coolify.io