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Ask HN: How to not be jealous of other people despite being a failure
23 points by user-extended on Dec 15, 2022 | hide | past | favorite | 68 comments
Yes, I am objectively a failure. This might be hard to believe, but I am 23 now, and ever since I was 16, my life has been just failure after failure.

At 16 my grades started to fail dramatically. I only made it through High School because of two teachers' "mercy".

At 18 I went to college for Computer Science. I failed every single subject I had, even one that had nothing to do with CS. I blew all of my parent's money.

At 19, I suffered a rare illness (still have it, in control now), which combined with depression made me into a very anxious person.

At 20 I tried studying Robotics at a non-uni level institution, I failed at it, blew my parent's money again, less severely though. I couldn't handle programming and dealing with electricity IRL.

At 21 I studied a non-uni level degree in Logistics, actually finished it, and now I'm working a job in the field. My job consist of basically manually inputting data that is soon to be automated (probably) and sending and receiving emails.

My friends WFH. My old classmates have degrees and master's in math, electric engineering, medicine, and more. All of then have got great amazing jobs that pay TRIPLE what I make now (minimum salary for my country).

My job requires me to commute to work 3 times a week to an office for 2.5h one way. I tried living alone, but roommates were hell, and I became very mentally anxious with some shit that happened at work.

I am afraid my skills in society are useless, that I should just vanish to make way for smarter, more capable people than I am. I was given EVERYTHING and yet I have failed, or have a significantly worse life than others.

I am already seeing a psychologist, for years.

I am cursed with a low IQ, with a low everything. I have lost all hope in myself.

How do I live with myself?




> I should just vanish

No, the world needs more people like you. You sound like a curious and passionate person who's worked through multiple challenges. I think you're being too hard on yourself.

> My old classmates have degrees blahblahblah

Are you still using Facebook, Instagram, etc? Delete those. Trust me, I have been so much happier since I stopped using IRL social media.

> My job requires me to commute to work 3 times a week to an office for 2.5h one way

That is horrible. You spend 5 hours commuting per day, 3 days a week, so a total of 15 hours commuting in a week? Why? Can you WFH for this job, or at least find a different one?

Normally on this forum I would suggest that you leverage your boring data-entry job as an opportunity to impress by automating it. If you think you don't like programming because of a bad experience in college, then maybe try again by teaching yourself - it's possible it wasn't the programming work itself that caused your bad experience. But if you truly don't like programming, then I'm afraid "automating your job" is not the right solution. And I'm skeptical that any job sitting in front of a computer will bring you happiness.

My suggestion is to leave your comfort zone and try something totally new, preferably an occupation that doesn't require staring at a monitor. Try working on a fishing boat for a few months or something.

> How do I live with myself?

Dude, you are 23 years old. You have an entire life in front of you. Your current emotional state is a challenge that you can overcome, and you will be wiser and better for it. And in twenty years, when your old classmates with their fancy degrees are having their midlife crisis, you'll be cruising, thanks to the strength you've built by following a less-trodden path.

Also, I think you should read some Stoic literature. Or at least start with Ryan Holiday's The Obstacle is the Way.


Thank you again for your kind words.

I am not using any social media like Facebook, never have, except for LinkedIn, which is where I found out about a lot of my previous classmates' achievements.

My relationship with programming is always giving up half way, because I've always hit a roadblock or something that takes me so much time to figure out, I just say "just do it manually". I love tinkering with Excel Formulas, and it's one of the reasons actually my current boss likes me, as I'm able to do some minor technical stuff. I don't know, it doesn't come down naturally to me. Maybe I should try taking up on it again, I don't know, but I've "failed" so many times at it already.

Irt other jobs... I've always been in front of a screen, and believe it or not, access to well paid respected professions in my country that are not "hands on" is very, very difficult, for example, a teacher requires a College degree + masters + to take a comparison test with other teachers that is pure rot memorization. Then there are other examples such as stevedores or policemen where you basically need to dedicate your whole life to it ever since you're a certain age til you get in.

I wish no ill will on others, so I hope my peers and old pals overachieve me in life a lot, and I don't wish a future middle life crisis on them.

Thank you for your kind words.

I've always found it very hard to believe in stoicism, I've always seen it as the philosophy of having a plan until you get punched in the face.


> I've always found it very hard to believe in stoicism

I see what you mean. But stoicism doesn't pretend to be a cure for all life's illnesses. It's a life long aspiration and a daily struggle to become stoic just as it is to become a good person or anything else worth pursuing. All stoics go through crises, they are human. But I do think there's wisdom in there that can and should be applied and as another commentator said Ryan Holiday is doing a good job making it all very accessible.


> I am not using any social media like Facebook, never have, except for LinkedIn,

Other than Hacker News, of course.


And reddit, ngl. I don't know anyone from those platforms, though, so I don't know if forums = social media.


How are they not? People interact with other people on forums, which is a form of socialization, just through text instead of pictures.


OP could have been me at 23, a decade and a half later I am a successful academic PI, a father, and generally a happy person. Stoic philosophy especially helped me turn hardship into strength. My recommendation would be the Gregory Hays translation of Meditations. Also, the poem If by Kipling: https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/46473/if---


He could have been me as well. Like you, I found Meditations (even the same translation). I went from being academically suspended from my University, depressed and in a dead-end job to being a happy, healthy, fulfilled person with a loving fiancé and the best job in the world (that happens to pay >6 figures). I’m 30 now.

I wouldn’t say that stoicism is perfect for everyone, but I found it stabilizing when everything was falling apart for me. Good luck OP, pm me if you just want to talk.


I'll look into those writings, thank you.

What is an academic PI?


Principal Investigator

https://academia.stackexchange.com/questions/151559/what-doe...


Sounds really cool, props for making it :)


Thank you for your reply, I need to go to sleem so I'll look into it tomorrow further.

But long story short irt to the WFH stuff, I already WFH 2 days a week, and I cannot get more. Commuting this long way 3 days a week allows me to live with my parents, which is right now important to me.


> How do I live with myself?

It's probably going to come down to you redefining "success".

Find the things you love doing no matter how terrible you are at doing them. Do those things to the best of your ability. If you can earn enough to support yourself and your hobbies you're doing better than a whole lot of people. Your job (the one you have now, or the one you end up with after automation makes everyone redundant) doesn't have to be fancy and your work doesn't have to define you. It just has to pay the bills.

Some folks can find joy in their work, but most people just put in their time so they can get back to doing the things they love that nobody is going to pay them for. There are a whole lot of very "successful" people who are outright miserable and plenty of "failures" who are living it up every day doing whatever makes them happy.

I've got friends with levels of wealth I'll never obtain, and occasionally I can be envious of some toy they can afford that I couldn't, but mostly I'm happy with what I have and it's hard to dwell on what I don't have when I'm genuinely having a good time.

If enjoying yourself isn't enough to make you feel successful, try doing something meaningful for someone else. Volunteer some place. It can take surprisingly little to make a huge difference in someone's life. When you're helping others and making a real difference it's pretty hard to feel like you're a failure. Plus it can be great for gaining perspective.


My first job in tech was ~13 years ago and I was making $9/hr. working part-time for a local ISP answering phones and racking servers. I had to commute every day rain or shine. I didn't get to do much until I pestered the network admin enough times to let me have access to a shell so I could learn to write Perl and automate some of my repetitive work.

I did that for a few years, then worked somewhere making slightly more, and slightly more, a few times to an entirely new city, and increasingly gained experience, resume cred, and made more money each time. Eventually I got to FAANG, and then even left that for a FAANG-related company with better pay. My coworkers are all college educated, have multiple degrees from prestigious universities. I barely graduated High School, failed more than a few classes, and never considered myself a super intelligent person. Years later I have designed and built a number of large and complex distributed systems for the largest companies in the world. Learned a dozen programming languages. Mentored and hired countless engineers, including a few from MIT, Stanford, etc.

I'm sure luck played a big part, but there are a LOT of us who went from nothing to a pretty great career and are self-taught. The idea that you need a "High IQ" or a formal education is bunk. A little bit of self improvement and motivation can go a long way.


Thanks for sharing your life story, and I wish you the best in your future endeavors.


> I am cursed with a low IQ, with a low everything. I have lost all hope in myself.

Not a low everything, we are an accumulation of our experiences (both good and bad), what you choose to do with that is up to you. If you are able to recognize your shortcomings you're already better off than 90% of people.

Everyone has their shortcomings, confidence isn't an ignorance of those shortcomings (that's ego) it's joyful acceptance of them in a persistent manner.

I'm not an intelligent person by any means but I am a persistent one. I failed Spanish twice in high school but persisted and got it the third time with a C, in college I failed pre-calc, differential equations, and linear algebra all at least once but continued and eventually passed. For my first Internship I applied to over 180 different companies, only three gave me interviews, the last of which gave me an offer. The first 9 women I asked out said no, after that it got to be around a 50-50 shot as to whether they'd say yes.

Even if you fail at doing the same thing 99% of the time, if you try enough you can get your desired outcome. The thing about failing is that the better you are at it, and the more you do it, the quicker you'll find a way out.

If you legitimately believe that a "low IQ" is holding you back, you are wrong. You can blame the world or people around you all you want, and it might even be true, but at the end of the day the only person out there to improve your circumstances is yourself.


But you see, you still got that college degree that led you into bigger things in life, you overcame. At 18, I genuinely thought I shall overcome too, but it did not happen, and now I am at where I am at.

I am glad you did though, and I wish you the best.


The point is that I continued fighting for that degree regardless of how many failures I had in the past. I genuinely believe that if you continued, even now, to learn these subjects (even without formal education) you can do great things.

I challenge you to three months of relentless self education. Instead of watching YouTube or browsing socials in your spare time but some very basic projects on your plate then move from there to larger ones.

Here's how I self-taught website design:

1. Khan academy JavaScript courses (intro first) with small khan academy projects between: https://www.khanacademy.org/computing/computer-programming

2. Khan academy HTML course with some small khan academy projects between

3. Bit of a jump here but Angular Tour of Hero's: https://angular.io/tutorial/tour-of-heroes

4. Small, self designed angular site. BE SURE to use the tools you have at your disposal, USE GOOGLE SEARCH.

5. Learn "First day on GitHub" https://skills.github.com/#first-day-on-github

6. Host an Angular site on GitHub Pages.

After this I learned Python and some data science stuffs, got into Flask (which allows for website backends via REST) and MongoDB (database).

If you genuinely apply yourself to learn this kind of stuff and feel confident in you capabilities, I know you can apply it in a way that at the very least will help you feel a bit more fulfilled in your skillset.


Thank you, I will look into this. I can't make any promises, but I'll take a look.

Thanks for the kind words.


Have you discussed with your psychologist that you might have ADHD? It often appears alongside anxiety. Maybe you can have therapy targeted for these conditions, including possible medication. Maybe it's time to looks for a new psychologist or psychiatrist to give a fresh view of things. Good luck! It's by no means too late to turn things around.


Asked my pacyhologist SEVERAL times. I've already been put on anti-anxiety meds, I'm scared as all hell of ADHD meds.

Also, a new psychologist would cost me money, which I simply don't have, as I'm living paycheck to paycheck.


> I'm scared as all hell of ADHD meds.

I've known a lot of people with mental illness who feared their medication, and sometimes I don't think they were being unreasonable. Some of those medications can really mess with you and can permanently change your brain/personality!

Still, I had no problem with ADHD drugs. Drugs like adderall go into your system, does its thing, and then leaves. If you take it as a child it can help your brain to develop more normally, but as an adult it's not going to make you into a different person and you don't have to worry that there's no going back. You stop taking it, and you're right back to where you were.

There are still some questions surrounding long term use of the stuff, but with the number of people who have been on those drugs for their entire lives it's pretty clear nobody is just dropping dead after x number of years at typical therapeutic doses.

If you think you've got ADHD, it's worth getting checked out. Don't let fear of the drugs stop you at least. A lot of people who only got diagnosed with ADHD as adults morn the years they lost because of not treating it.


Thank you, I will look into it. I've taken my fair share of meds in life, and losing my libido at 19 was an experience. I hope that doesn't also happen with ADHD drugs, lol.


What do you want? A prestigious education? Job? Wealth?

To be honest, I've been lucky enough to know a lot of successful people. Entrepreneurs, investors, and what have you. People have have been infinitely more successful than me at being intellectuals, businessmen, building wealth, etc.

I'm also a very competitive person, so other peoples fortune felt like my own failure - it's not rational, but that's how it sometimes felt.

But I found peace by just being happy for others. Jealousy and bitterness didn't make me any better, or motivate me more - it's self-destructive. You probably don't watch sports, movies, or similar and think "Wow, that person is so successful - why not me?" and feel bitter about it, so why should it be any different with your peers?

Focus your energy on being productive. Hell, seek out to the successful people you know, and ask for advice. Do they have any tips? mentoring can be a powerful tool.


A house(30 years of labor in the current market where I live with my current salary) in a location where jobs are available (so, close to a city).

It is different with my peers because with some of them, at some point or other in life we were at the same level, which is why when I think about how much they've been able to further themselves in life compared to me, makes me have thise depressive thoughts.

I will reach out to mentors, that's a very good point.

I relate to a lot of things you've mentioned, thank you.


Hey, I just wanted to chime in as well. I am a few years older than you, but I have been exactly where you are. I was a gifted kid but my grades declined around 16/17. I felt 0% prepared for college and withdrew before they flunked me out. Tried again after a few months and the same thing. That was (oh dear) almost a decade ago.

I'm currently a student at a local tech college and have two semesters to go for my Application Development Associate's degree. It was a huge struggle for me to have any self worth in the years between dropping out and when I applied to attend the tech school. There is a bit of unspoken judgement against tech schools (at least I definitely felt that way), but the instructors there are often very knowledgeable and approachable. Just because you didn't graduate from /a/ college doesn't mean you can't graduate or that you are in any way lesser than those that did.

I also started seeing a specialist about ADHD and I'm currently on a low Adderall dose. I was also skeptical or felt like asking to be tested would seem like I just wanted the drugs. But my diagnosis and Rx has been essential to my success at my current job and in my degree path. It might be good to look up a few ADHD specialists in your area, it's a complex disorder that doesn't always present the same way in people.

You are young still and have plenty of time to fail in new and exciting ways! But really, you have so much time to find things you enjoy and are good at. Were I in your position, I would first look for a job with a shorter commute. Actually, when I was about 25, I took a $2/hr pay cut because I was fed up with management at my current job and needed a change for my mental health. It worked wonders and I was making more at the new job within 6 months. My point here being you might take a "lateral" (on paper) move that will greatly improve your quality of life. I'm glad you reached out for help, it prompted me to finally make an account. This post was so close to my own experience I could have written it.


+1 to this. My experience was similar and when I was evaluated for ADHD the signals were blaring to a professional despite the fact I was a mostly quiet individual.

I struggle with the same things but despite being temporarily unmedicated, for silly reasons out of my control, I am in a much better spot in life. More self-aware and able to create environments which set me up for success.


Thank you for your reply, I need to go to sleep so I'm gonna be brief: I'm very glad to hear you've been able to turn your life around, I will look into everything you've mentioned.


Here's the thing: We're all a failure in most areas of life. Really.

I'm not good at fixing cars, or running marathons, or doing woodwork, or soldering, or cooking, or art, or fashion, or yardwork, or interacting with kids.

I'm not good at most jobs. There are something like 50,000 different job categories, and it keeps going up, and I am no good at almost all of them.

Just keep looking. There's something you'll be good at - in fact, better than most people. (You've got a job? Start by looking around at what other people do there. See if there's a way that you can try it for a bit. It's always better to get paid for your looking.)


I am not sure you have failed at all. You just haven't discovered what you want to do. It sounds to me like you are an adventurist, hardworking, never give up kind of person. Life isn't defined as money = success, or job = success. People who live that way are no more happy than you seem to be right now.

Instead of searching for a job, search for a passion. You seem to have parents who want to support you and believe in you. That is more than most have.

I don't know where to tell you to start, but if anything be a little easier on yourself. The fact you made this post alone shows that you don't want to quit, which is a major factor in being successful.


Thank you.

I am indeed blessed with loving parents, for whom I am thankful for every day.

I don't know what my passion is, indeed. I don't know how to even start looking for it either.

Thanks again for the words of encouragement.


It is hard to know what you enjoy. I am 38 and I work a part time job and run a business from home. Is it exactly what I want to do? Absolutely not, but does it pay the bills, yes. Does it let me be home with my family more, yes. I have a degree in economics and turned down so many awesome jobs from schoolmates who wanted me to work with/for them. I think they define me as unsuccessful because I don't make X dollars a year like they do. I make significantly less than I could make, but I enjoy my life a lot more than they do I think. I have less fancy things, but more enjoyable moments.

Life is mysterious, confusing and lovely all at the same time. Focusing on the impossible big picture of what you should be doing, and where you should be is a trap. Enjoy each unique day the best you can. Sure you don't know what you need to do to be successful tomorrow, but I am sure you can think of things you can do today to be successful; even if its just helping a neighbor or a parent. Define success for each day based on its circumstances. When you fail, write down why and move onward.

Every little success adds up to a new mindset.

Good luck.


What are hopes and dreams? They're just a story you have made up, with you as the main character ... and the character isn't even the real you, it's an imaginary person you have also made up

You wrote a script for your life, and now you're depressed because you haven't been able to act out that script. Don't be. Nobody's life can be scripted. Life is an improvisation.

What do you actually like to do? Do more of that. What do you hate doing? Do less of that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4ZnfCmTJMY


> I suffered a rare illness (still have it...)

> with a low everything

You have an illness. That's all there is to it. Don't be ashamed. I think you probably have an illness of the kind that mainstream medicine/society is very bad at understanding, treating and accommodating. I know you think it's "in control", but that's likely because you don't even know what it's like to feel and be "normal".

Everyone who seems to be doing so much better than you is doing it in a way that comes fairly naturally to them, as their health, and the way the feel and think is very different. It's not your fault that it hasn't worked out this way for you yet.

I've been through a somewhat similar path. It's awful, I know, I really do. I'm 45 and only just fully overcoming the illness I've had for much of my life - I desperately hope. It took till my very-late 30s to start earning a good income, and I became a father for the first time at 43. Life is now pretty good and getting better. But I've had to endure so much pain and shame on the way here.

Be kind to yourself. You're still very young. Keep getting therapy. Do more research into what's doing on in your body and how to get your body and mind working better. There are many options. It will probably take a long time to figure it out and get to a place where life is really great, but you absolutely can get on to a path where you're feeling better, functioning better and achieving better things week by week, then in several years you'll look back and be amazed at how far you've come.

Pay no attention to your peers who seem to be doing "better" than you now. Many of them will crash and burn in their late 20s or 30s, or just end up mediocre in middle-age. I see it a lot. If you get onto a path of healing and growth now you can live a life of steady improvement and optimism that will be incredibly fulfilling.

I wish you all the best.


I'm very glad you've been able to overcome your illness and that you're on a better path now, I know it is not easy.

For me, it took me 5 months of constant pain, lots of tests, and stuff I don't want to get into. But long story short, it doesn't affect my mental capabilities (asked medical professionals about this several times). Obviously, it has had side effects on anxiety and other stuff which may collaterally have effects on my general intelligence.

I wish no ill on others, so I don't hope they crash and burn.

I will try getting onto that aforementioned path, thank you.

I also wish you the best.


It's possible to be mentally balanced and even happy without being in the top of the income/status ladder. There are inmates who are in prison for murder and still feel better about themselves than you ... so what you're going through is more a process created in your mind than your objective circumstances. So a major pain point for you as I see it is that you have extremely low self esteem. Despite failing school you might have a lot to offer as a son, as a friend and as a human. You are not the economic value you produce.

I would probably start there - the mental balance and self esteem, before worrying that much about career/status improvements. When the mental balance and self esteem improves good things can happen - finding a partner , starting a family etc, or if that's not your thing that's fine as well.

Some more things besides conventional therapy come to my mind:

1. Exercise. All research confirm it just works. Pick up the thing you hate least.

2. Stoicism (OK I'm a sucker for stoicism so had to throw it in there). But seriously, all people should be encouraged to find whatever spiritual framework works for them. For me its stoicism - what is it for you? Explore things. Find out if there's anything that works for you, there has to be.

3. Consider cooling things off for a while with friends that make you feel bad about yourself. That's probably controversial, a lot of people will tell you that you are the problem not them (which might be true), but I think as you are going through a build up / healing process anything that drags you down needs to be reduced.

P.S - you failed at some pretty difficult things most people wouldn't even try their hand in.

Hope this helps!


I know the feeling only too well. Rest assured it passes, just like rain passes. And, like trying to make it stop raining, trying to feel different doesn't do anything.

There's plenty of good advice in this thread. Take in but be wary of falling into the trap of "If I just 2x my salary, then I'll really be happy." (Or buy a house, or get married, or get a job at google or whatever) It's best to focus on the now as much as you can, because in 5 years time you'll find that you're living in "now", not in some magical 5 year future time.

Find your happiness in what you are doing now, whatever that is. By all means make improvements, but aim for small and immediate over long term and big overarching goals.


Play to your strengths!

Studying and passing exams: not your strength

If you volunteered with a charity, soup kitchen, or helped people in need even 2 times a month you would have much more impact in the world than those people earning x3 as much.

Edit to add some more ideas (hopefully you see this): If you can learn to enjoy inexpensive habits, you can bridge the wealth gap. With their salaries they might eat out a lot, be a member of an expensive golf course, have expensive gadgets etc but you can still do a lot of stuff that won't break the bank:

* Learn to cook and eat healthily

* Enjoy reading

* Enjoy games like chess and puzzles like Sudoku

* Walking, hiking, running, cycling, football - staying fit


One important thing that you should consider is that feelings are not facts. While facts do inform our feelings, that isn't always the case. Most people are average (sometimes even people who think they're good). Its not wrong to feel like a failure just like it isn't wrong to feel like you're a success/have made it. IMO, what is important is that you should strive to perform at YOUR best. If you're doing than then you're already successful. Give it all you have, and ignore the haters.


Here's a quote I made up, that I keep at my desk for when I feel this way:

The foundation of all growth, personal and societal, is the voluntary suspension of disbelief that the future will proceed on it's current trajectory.

I'm sorry for everything that has happened to you. When I was your age, I had just gotten out of an abusive relationship where I was told everyday, for four years, that I was useless and worthless and stupid. And after all that time, part of me believed it. It took me years to stop the abusive self talk where I would hear their voice in my head, constantly deriding me.

When I did feel bold enough to try something, I ended up injuring my hands from an RSI really badly, and put myself out of commission for 10 months. And it was a loathsome 10 months, I was so angry with myself for behaving foolishly. But bit by bit I learned to open and close doors with my feet, went to physical therapy, and bit by bit I started to recover.

Nowadays I'm much happier. But I still feel I haven't done enough with my life, and that I want to accomplish so much more than I have. I still have episodes of depression and anxiety. When I do, I try to read that quote and other affirmations, and try to channel it into something constructive. It works as often as it doesn't; it's a work in progress.

The way you're speaking about yourself here is really abusive. Try not to do that; this is just one story, one interpretation of the facts of your life. What's past is prologue, not destiny. You can tell yourself the story of how that was where you came from and what you are overcoming.

There's so much time. I know how old and weary one can feel at 23, at any age. And there's truth to that feeling; you've experienced a lot, and a lot of it has been painful. But it has been my experience that failure is a part of life and a prerequisite for success, however you define that. You are not a failure. Like all of us, you are a work in progress.

Please feel free to reach out to me via the email in my profile if you'd like to talk. I'm not a replacement for a professional by any means, but the kindness of internet strangers with an empathetic ear has been helpful for me on my own journey, and I'm happy to repay the favor if it's useful to you.


Thank you for your kind words, I'm sad you also had to overcome a lot in life to get to the point you're at, and the physical injury part really saddens me to my core. I need to go to sleep, but I'd be glad to talk and share experiences over email. Thank you!


Please don't be sad for me! I'm glad to have lived at all, and I try not to regret what's happened.

Sleep well. Take care. Be kind to yourself.


Pick up a hobby project. Anything you like, don't tie it with money or earnings. Just something that will give you joy and let you stop thinking about everyone and everything else. If you won't like it, find another one and try again in a few months.

You have access to the largest library in history of the universe, university majors are nothing compared to that.

After focusing on it for some time you can share it with the world (for example Show HN), describe the process.


I'm not really sure if this is the direction you want to pursue, but have you tried to develop skills that primarily don't require a high IQ? E.g. crafting, entertainment or tourism. Here in Germany, crafters are very needed & get a good salary, which seems important to you. If you get a "Meister" title & found your own company later in your career, you could potentially even earn more than in the fields your classmates graduated.


I care about salary because with my current one, it will take me 30 years to own my own house. It's the sole reason, really.

There is no such thing as a "Meister" title in my country.

I am afraid of working with physical stuff, I was awful, just awful with it in High School.

I don't know about Low IQ jobs, is it worth it to live as a trashman after having hopes and dreams? What's the point of living? I am already a failure... And yes, garbagemen and everything make money and so on, but I had actual hopes and dreams, which is what is really putting me down. Everyone I see around me is so much more accomplished than I am, socially, academically, or in whatever else.


> Everyone I see around me is so much more accomplished than I am, socially, academically, or in whatever else.

Ok, so you care about reputation. I especially didn't suggest trashman, I didn't even think of that. Please don't put the fields I suggested in the same category. Stop thinking academia is the only respectable path.


Sorry, I'm going through a lot right now, and maybe I'm incoherent.

Most jobs I have applied to put at their number one request a college education. That's why I care about academia, as I'm seeing real life consequences in my material well-being due to my lack of a formal education.

Indeed, you did not say garbagemen or anything like it, but I live in a country where college defines your path in life. I've been sold that this is what respectable human being in society needs to have for years, and I cannot simply say "okay, you're gonna be inferior than others (Economically, chances wise, socially, etc) from now on, and that is OK".


> "okay, you're gonna be inferior than others (Economically, chances wise, socially, etc) from now on, and that is OK".

I totally understand that & were about to comment the same thing on a comment of someone who suggesting accepting it, because I lived with a person in a similar situtation as yours.

I didn't wanted to write this immedeately, but you telling multiple times that college is so important, I'd may suggest that you try out disciplines that are respected & well-paid in other countries & move (assuming citizens from the secret country do get visas easily).

Repeating "college is the only option to success" doesn't help you moving forward when you're maybe actually good at something physical & could retire as a millionaire in another country. There are also lots of places around the world that need guides that speak the language of the tourists well. Please don't limit your scopes on the example, you may have to research & try a bit.


Thank you for your understanding, I am sorry if I'm coming off as rambly and incoherent (again).

I don't know what those other disciplines you're talking about, and I don't know of anyone who makes a living being something like a tourist guide, or something similar. It's quite sad for me to even think about leaving my home country, as my parents are actually immigrants. And to be honest, without my parents near me, I break into depression easier.

All in all... Thank you for your kind words.


If I were in your situation with the knowledge I have now, I'd say, in order of priority

1. Make sure you understand and accept the position you're in

2. Try and understand that changing ourselves is done 1 thing at a time

3. Exercice (very important)

4. Write down some realistic goals and set up a few hours each day to work towards them.

Don't beat yourself too much, enjoy the little things in life (for me, beer, eating, and coffee), and stay kind with your fellow humans


You are extremely miserable and you expect this forum to somehow show you the way out of it. Good luck with that.

Miserable posts like that are becoming very common, just know that there are many people in a similar state out there.


No, I do not expect anyone on HN to take me out of it, I made this post from a moment of weakness. I'm already been getting professional help on this (psychologist) and if I make more money, I'm willing to even pay for it. I am very thankful to all the replies, they have been insightful, and they're helping me cope with my problems.

I am sad to hear that there are more people like me in this state, and I'd be willing to reach out so that maybe we could help each other in our... Collective misery. I hate seeing others struggle.


Fair.

I can only relate cause I've been through some kind of therapy in the past, but the reasons might be completely different to yours. Just know that no professional will solve your problems, and you might not even really need one you know.

Good luck mate, life is tough.


Yeah, psychologists are hit and miss honestly. I hope you're better off now after therapy.

Best wishes to you too.


Are you certain that it’s “low IQ” that’s causing these failures. Are you failing despite working hard? Because at 23, you’re still young. You have so much more to live.


I don't know if I'm working hard or not, honestly, but I'm afraid of finding out because I probably am, which would imply I am not competitive enough with other people, generally.

I had one of the lowest SAT scores in my class, failed out of an engineering degree despite trying. Why would I not have a low IQ?

I genuinely hope so much to live for, I do, I hold on to hope as dear life allows me to, but comparing myself to my peers, old classmates and everyone makes me feel like someone who probably is a mistake in life.


Hey man. I saw and read your post. I wanted you to know that your life is more inportant. Im 35 years old. No degree work at a warehouse. Also making payment to payment. But I never stop trying. So long as you are alive and breathing always push yourself to believe in you. As I type this, I believe in you.


Thank you, I also wish you the best. I admire your optimism, and it comes from a true place in my heart that I'm sure your hard work will be rewarded soon enough in life :)


> I believe in you.

Cheers, this is the correct response.


You are not low IQ, far from it, you are write well and have a better grasp of English than many others. A lot of highly competent people do not have a college degree or a formal education. Earlier in the thread someone mentioned ADHD, what did your psychologist say?


Well, I guess that's something I'm OK at.

I think I have a low IQ because I struggle with most higher level logic and math exercises/tasks, in addition to all of what I have mentioned before. Most decent paying jobs in society exist around those skillsets.

My psychologist said I did not have ADHD, simply, and that it's something that medical professionals would've picked up (or at least written down on my medical history) from my exhibited behavior earlier in life.


You’re a spiritual being having a human experience :) reconnect with your higher and hidden nature from which you have become separated.


If we look at recent advances in AI there's a good chance that many of the high-paying jobs you're jealous of might be automated away before lower-paying physical labour and such. Education is not the pathway to success it used to be IMO, not for most students anyway.

You also shouldn't judge yourself based on how "productive" you are in terms of the current (and doomed) capitalist system, or how much money you can earn, or what degrees you have. Try find things other than money in life, things that make you happy. Perhaps also read some stoic philosophy. Worrying about things that are beyond your control is waste of time, and stuff like IQ is exactly one such thing. Also ensure you're doing enough exercise. Even if you don't like physical labour, the fact is humans were made to move, not to sit down all the time. I didn't do much exercise at all until my mi 20s and yet it made a huge difference once I started regular running.

I studied CS, have a degree and work in the field and I most certainly couldn't pass a FAANG interview ever. Economically I would be better off had I just studied something like nursing after high school. It's my family and certain physical hobbies that bring way more content to my life than education and work ever will. I could be very unhappy if I compared myself to other, more "successful" people all the time. But I don't bother. Eventually we all die and then we're all equal. Ultimately money doesn't bring happiness even in this life. 100 years ago people had much less material good, much less opportunities but yet they weren't any less happy on average. They were just busy doing whatever physical labour they could get to bring food on the table. That's what evolution really has made us for, not staring a screen indoors all the time. Studying CS taught me that what I really want is a small farm in middle of nothing and minimum amount of computer time. Maybe what you want is something different, but it probably more than just education, money and work. Trying out new things out of your comfort-zone is the only way to find out what you really like (and don't like).


Well, you clearly have not experienced the housing market in my country, where you need to pay 30 year's labor for a small place of your own. It's the way it is, I cannot see it changing any time soon, that's why I feel I am not enough for life.

I know we're all just dirt in the sand, eventually, but "carpe diem-ing" through life seems for me to be impossible without a good source of income. Everything is expensive, everything requires money. That's why I cannot find happiness, I am too poor to afford to think about happiness to begin with.


Do you live for a job or have a job to live?

Also IQ be damned, it's not even an accurate measurement in the first place and honestly even if someone is a bit of an idiot (unlikely for you since you were studying robotics) there is still a lot a person can do if they are dumb. I've known several idiots who do well.

But it seems to me your primary concerns are usefulness to society and making money. One can be useful in any number of ways, mentor people, be involved in organizations and communities, hell just showing up goes a long way. As for making money I'll try to summarize what I know.

So how does one make money? I have a few ideas that are in no ways all encompassing and is just a rough outline. 1. a standard job, getting paid for time and knowledge 2. providing some kind of service for which people pay you 3. selling some kind of object, which is more or less a service, but let's list product separately.

For jobs, we have the options of first leveraging the current job to gain skills and outgrow the current position, an example would be while working at a hotel taking the time to learn how to do every related job there, likely including higher paying jobs like accounting, management, sales or on finding something that annoys you, you could pivot it into going solo and selling the solution to that annoyance to your former employer and other similar companies. Any of these could increase income options, you could also be upskilling on the side while working, working on a passion project at night, or running any kind of side hustle.

For providing services, this could range from any kind of skill, solution, expertise that other people would pay for. This could range from entertainment, education, consulting, freelancing, managing a team (like for example if you started a cleaning business and managed a team of cleaners who do the work but you do the sales and management etc). Hell this could be software even, make an app that tells horoscopes algorithmically charge people a few bucks for it or even make it subscription based to get the daily if they pay $1 a month, what people will pay for would surprise you. I once heard about a guy who made a website that auto generates crosswords for teachers, charges them a dollar each, makes enough to live off it.

Lastly for products, this could range from digital goods like selling downloadable coloring books on etsy to making handcrafted woodwork in the garage or even making yoru own retro electonric chips, so long as it fills a need that people are willing to pay for. Keep in mind that often what people pay for is more than just the thing or the solution it provides, if you are in the middle of a desert and someone is selling ice cold water their making it convenient is something you pay more for, making it cold in a hard to keep cold place is something you pay more for, maybe it's someone you trust which you would pay more for. What about if you rebranded cereal boxes like AirBNB did when they started, it was a joke box with boring cereal inside, but people paid for the joke, for the entertainment of it. What about if you made a comic, or a game or wrote a book, often people pay for those to support their favorite artist (in fact making a personal connection is the artist's best tool to fight piracy). Also, wealth is created when things are processed or created, for example the difference between a pile of lumber, a log and a wooden chair, gathering the wood initially provides value, curing it and turning it into lumber provides value, turning it into a chair provides value, selling the chair in the right location provides value, making it easy to ship or assemble provides value, making the assembly instructions easy to understand provides value, even methods of customization like wood stains provide value. You know supply chains a bit, so you should get it, any point of the chain or process has a point of value providing, people usually pay for that, improve a part of that, and you gain not just money but are useful to others.

Go look up the article about 1000 true fans, look around on indiehackers, and most importantly figure out what you want to do and do that. Often people who become experts of nonsense things become valuable because they are an expert of that thing, just have to find where it intersects with someone wanting to pay you, figure out how to leverage it.


OP I think you need to change your perspective, philosophy, and outlook--

Failure is just a step on the path to success. Failuring to try is trying to fail-- translation: If you're not failing, you're not trying. So, pat yourself on the back: You're already on the road to success.

Look at cases of people like Eric Thomas-- See a brief overview of his life here: https://youtu.be/gV1ZK8dgXG0?t=52 or David Gogginns.

- Get on Youtube and check out Motivational Speeches and Motivational Music

- Pick a project to work on.

if you're 23 without kids, you don't need a job that involves a 2.5 hour commute. You should consider applying to jobs in other states & cities if you can't find local ones within 30 minutes of where you live.

For me, I dropped out of grad school, drove across the US to lived in a tent in the SF Bay for a month applying to jobs until I landed one (not a unique story-- the same is true for many people). Laid off after 4 months.

I then lived on a friend's rural property and landscaped part time for rent, while teaching myself to build a web app over the course of a few months. I also realized renting a place in Mexico would only cost about $300/month, and since I learned Spanish in HS, I decided to try living in Mexico-- for the purpose of a low cost lifestyle in order to take time to teach myself web app development.

What I'm trying to say is: Success takes lifestyle sacrifice: you might have to move across the country, and/or live very frugally, and/or.

Get creative! Opportunities don't come easy-- sometimes you have to make sacrifice and make moves!

How badly do you want success? Badly enough to move across the country and live out of a tent for 1-3 months?

You could work time and live in a tent in a forest, (or foreign country, or low cost/part-time/work-trade rural property)-- like I did-- in order to build projects-- visiting cafes/libraries every day for wifi access. Showering at a community center. Getting food from food banks. Cooking out of a camping stove. I've spent cumulative months that way in Alaska, Oregon, California, Texas, while working on becoming a self-taught software engineer. In cases of tent living, my tent was forests in state parks in Portland, Alaska, & on WWOOF properties (tent/cabin) Texas, California.

Useless skills? Guess what-- plenty of people are in that boat. I was-- thats why I am telling you my story.

Look: 1. The skills required by an economy change with time. So all of us have to build new skills once in a while.

2. Goods & Services are not uniformly distributed in an economy-- the best jobs in a particular industry might not be where you currently live. If you really want success, you might have to move (temporarily-- for a few months or years), like I did.

Check out the skills are in demand-- via good data sources & visualization such as "BLS: Visualize it: Wages and projected openings by occupation" https://www.bls.gov/careeroutlook/2019/article/wages-and-ope...

Cross reference well paid skills, in high demand, with your interests. Ideally, a skillset w/o a degree requirement (examples: software dev, IT security, sales, digital marketing, etc.).

If you were interested in web app dev, I'd tell ya:

- Start building projects. Check Udemy.com for courses in NodeJS or Python web frameworks for example-- Click "Categories" in the upper left and you'll see a ton of in-demand skills you can learn at a low cost (note: only pay the promo price-- about $12. If its more, just create a new email account & new udemy account, and you'll get promo price again). For a IT SKILLS ROADMAP check out https://roadmap.sh/

- next, build a website featuring a portfolio, description of your professional & personal interests, and links to your resume

- Then build an online presence-- post your resume on multiple resume websites like Indeed.com . Get on LinkedIn.

......

Success is challenging. It requires strategic sacrifice, optimism, discipline, and focus. And you can't focus on successful actions if you're complaining. So stop complaining, stop focusing on what's wrong, and focus on what's going right (you have a laptop, Wifi? You're young w/o obligations? No reason you can't self-study a new, in-demand skillset), and start taking action.

TLDR: Did I stop trying to achieve my goal and career dream of earning the career skills of a software engineer, after I was laid off in the SF Bay after just 4 months? No. I kept at it, lived in a tent & eventually another country to reduce rent, & improve my skills: learned to make, then made app from scratch, then published a web portfolio which featured my app (and another 2-3 smaller, projects). Landed a remote job within 2 weeks, where I was tasked with learning a new programming language.

I had to create the career achievement goal, then promise myself to commit achieving it no matter what-- self teaching, tent, foreign country, then moving to a hub of that particular industry (in this case, IT)... initially I failed. Tried again. Eventually, with enough work & sacrifice, I broke into the industry. I applied to Google & Facebook, and interviewed with them-- Currently I'm not great at data structures & algorithms (hackerrank style) interviews, but I know that with enough practice, if I want to, I can get a role at those or similar, industry leading & well paying IT companies.

In fact, I've already had 3 different careers-- just a few years working in a particular occupation (Sales, Marketing, Software Engineering). I think its likely I'll have 2-3 more careers in my lifetime-- I certainly could if I chose to: I'd just take time to learn new skills. I've always wanted to learn: Carpentry, Electronics, House construction, Organic Farming & Livestock raising. I can perhaps take on some of those careers.

"“Reality cannot be ignored except at a price; and the longer the ignorance is persisted in, the higher and more terrible becomes the price that must be paid.” — Aldous Huxley


You've clearly lived a very eventful life, that's for sure. Props to you for never holding back and taking your chances, I really admire that in people.

I wish you good luck in trying to make it in IT in the Bay Area.

Thank you for all the encouragement and your life story is very interesting. I will look into that udemy course, I don't know what I life out of life, honestly, other than a house and a source of income. I already have a LinkedIn account.

Man, living in a tent sounds like hell though!


Wow, thanks a lot!

I will look into your comment in detail tomorrow, need to go to sleep.




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