Ask HN: Advertising networks that pay per click, but are flexible.

[axod]

I'm having quite a bit of trouble finding pay per click ad networks that have the following criteria:

1. You can have complete control over which adverts you show and where. I don't want a network where I drop in some js and it analyzes my page, because that isn't appropriate for webapps. Ideally I just want an inventory of adverts that I can handle myself.

2. You can update links etc in realtime. (via DOM manipulation)

I'm really surprised google adsense doesn't have a product tailored to ajax type applications yet. For a webapp where you don't have any page reloads, the existing google adsense is pretty useless.

If anyone knows of any networks I'd be really grateful. (At the moment using cj,linkshare,clickxchange,and a few uk based ones, but these are mainly lead based). If I can't find one I'll probably end up making my own and having advertisers come direct etc, but this would be a bit of a diversion if there's already some out there.

[mrtron]

I have found that if you do your homework and use well targeted ads you will make much more using non-PPC advertising. edit: I was avoiding introducing too many new acronyms, but I was suggesting CPA

Let's say you use some sort of program and get paid per lead - I would suggest CJ/Linkshare/Neverblueads[1]. Then track the ads well, see which work and fit in with your site. Look for a clickthrough rate of at least 0.10% (although depending on how you display/cycle the ads this could be off). Then from there look to have a conversion rate of definitely better than 1/10, aim for about 1/3.

If you work in those numbers (probably your first attempt will be about half that), you will make more than PPC. You will also completely control how you serve ads and not be bound by the conditions of something like adsense.

I used to work for a major website, and they tended to make more per click on their ad campaigns that were revenue sharing than PPC as well.

Because of how behind the times the ad industry is in terms of AJAX sites, I really doubt you will find someone who allows you to change the ads in the method you desire.

[1]http://www.neverblueads.com/signup?ref=aff_66639 if you want to signup (that would give me a referral). It is pretty highly rated.

[sachinag → mrtron]

I'd also recommend Google Affiliate Network (formerly Performics) if you're going to start serving CPA ads. We did an analysis of which of the "big three" to use (CJ/LS/GAN) when planning for the 4th quarter for Dawdle, and I'm scarily impressed by the investments Google is making in the platform.

[fallentimes → sachinag]

Please excuse my ignorance, but what does GAN stand for?

CJ = commission junction, LS = linkshare, GAN = ?

[ComputerGuru → fallentimes]

Google Affiliate Network

[jbenz → mrtron]

The key is to recommend the products you are advertising. Don't hide away the ads like they are something of which to be ashamed. Find a product or brand you like, and honestly recommend them. Have a header that says "Products we admire" and display products that hopefully relate closely to your demographic, if not your app.

You can't do this with Google PPC display ads. They will shut down your account because you're not allowed to encourage users to click on PPC ads.

But you can do this with affiliate ads.

[netcan]

Look at it from this angle: With ppc, the advertiser needs to make buying clicks worth his while. A big part of that is advertising in the correct place.

If you the 'publisher' want control over what ads appear, how often etc. you'll need to remove any risk from the advertiser - CPA/affiliate so that it's always worth it to the advertisers.'

When it's up to the publisher to make the advertising work, they can have control. When it's up to advertisers, they need it. I don't see an obvious way around that.

[staunch]

> For a webapp where you don't have any page reloads, the exsting google adsense is pretty useless.

You could just auto-refresh the javascript using an iframe if necessary. That would solve that problem at least, although it may raise some additional ones.

[mrtron → staunch]

Inflating impressions by doing something like an auto-refresh is definitely against the adsense TOS.

[staunch → mrtron]

There are sites that do auto-refreshing with other ad networks. AdSense may forbid it, but they're not the only network. I'm certainly not suggesting it as a sneaky thing to do. Some webapps are opened for hours at a time (as the OP stated). Acting as if that multi-hour page view is equivalent to a regular page view and showing only a single ad is ridiculous.

[axod → staunch]

Good idea, but you're not allowed to use adsense in an iframe, additionally it would not pick up any keywords from the surrounding page so it would likely stay on public service ads etc.

[dejb → axod]

You had me worried there for a second but it turns out that you are allowed to display adsense in an iframe although google says -

'Our targeting technology is not optimized to serve ads within a separate IFRAME. If you placed the AdSense code in a separate IFRAME, your site may display less targeted ads or public service ads.'

https://www.google.com/adsense/support/bin/answer.py?answer=...