Ask HN: How do you get yourself to sleep when you want?

[worldexplorer]

Always admired people who can sleep whenever they want. I lost several interviews and life important events because I have no control over my sleep and every 2-3 days I lose my sleep till 5-6 am and wake up next day like zombie. I tried many existing suggestions including reducing my ambitions and anxiety triggering events by trying less stressful jobs, following digital well being, keep myself busy, meditation and having a routine but that didn't work as well. One doctor said it is not anxiety it is hyperactivity. Has anybody faced similar problems? How did you overcome it?

Thanks for your precious time reading the post.

[andrewb]

Had similar issues to you and also did similar things.

However I eventually got through it and my suggestion below is what ended up working for me.

For a fortnight, do the following:

- Go to bed at 10pm, no music, no movies, etc. Get up at 6am without exception, even if super tired.

- Moderate exercise at 630am for 1 hour. Ride to work, do some weights, go for a run. Whatever works for you.

- No caffeine after midday. I've got friends that can have it at 8pm, and still sleep at 10pm. I cannot if I have it at 1pm

- Alcohol free. It disrupts your sleep and makes you eat more junk food.

- More vegetables. Because I don't know how to cook, I just went with steamed veges with a different sauce (bbq, sriracha, butter, etc)

Regarding hyperactivity, the best thing you could do is setup a TODO board (e.g. Trello, whiteboard with sticky notes) to visualize everything going on in your life.

Taxes to do, bills to pay, emails to reply to, people to see, presents to buy, tutorials to watch, books you are reading. Everything.

When I did this, I had a terrible amount of work in progress that I just couldn't keep up with and my mind was constantly on.

See what you can do to reduce this. Take a day off work for taxes, admit you won't read that book, unsubscribe from emails, say no to social obligations if you're feeling overwhelmed, etc.

Hope this helps.

[elenaturner]

Gadgets, TV etc are the biggest enemies of sleep for me. I used to have exactly same issue and then made few changes that helped a lot.

- Have a fixed time to go to bed. - No caffeine at least 4 hours before going to bed. - No gadgets and TV at least 1 hour before going to bed. - Eat clean, and have your last meal at least 3 hours before going to bed. (It's even longer for me due to multiple gastric issues.) - Intense physical activity of at least 30 mins in the later afternoon/evening, i.e. running, playing tennis. Morning exercise only makes me tired and I can't do anything else the whole day.

[PaulHoule]

I do this.

From EEG analysis people have characterized beta, alpha, and theta states.

People tend to generate beta waves when their eyes are open, alpha waves become more prevalent when you close your eyes, theta waves are associated with a dreamy kind of state.

First go into an alpha state by some meditation like

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autogenic_training

but skip the "forehead is cool" part because it makes you more alert.

To go to a theta state it helps to visualize a lot of motion in different directions. You might imagine going down in an elevator, then getting out and going down a hallway, opening a door, going down another hallway, climbing up a ladder, opening a hatch and getting outside, running down a path, suddenly popping up into the air and flying, catching a ride on an airplane, jumping off, etc.

After a fair amount of that kind of imagined movement you may be feeling rather dreamy and ready to drift off to sleep.

---

So far as pharmacology I've found that if I take any *-prazole drug for heartburn I cannot sleep a wink all night. I had a phase when Trazodone was helpful but later I couldn't tolerate it. I've found Gabapentin is useful but you might have a hard time getting a script for it because off-label use of that drug is perceived to be a problem.

[Raeru]

I feel your pain. I experience the same thing, it’s constant and very disruptive. I’m still trying to figure out how to solve this because nothing has been consistently working.

Melatonin and drowsy allergy pills also doesn’t work for me on those sleepless nights.

Regarding theta state, there’s been a lot of times when I get into this dreamy state and I feel tired, then something happens in my brain where I suddenly lose it. And the sleepiness slips away from me. And then continues the cycle of sleeping around 5 or 6am.

Some things I’m trying that doesn’t look like it’s been suggested here yet:

- Gravity blanket. Along with not being able to fall asleep, I also get hyper-sensitive. The weight of the blanket seems to be helping with that.

- Breathing exercises until my heart beat gets near resting. I wear my Apple Watch for this, then take the watch off when my heart beat gets to around the targeted range. This works better for me than meditation because I can get feedback on how calm my body is getting. Not sure if this is gonna work consistently yet.

Would love to hear if something ends up working for you!

[captain-phil]

How much do you enjoy going to bed? I mean how satisfying is it for you to lay down in the end of a day? How much conscious thought do you give to this moment of lying down? Do you already have a bad feeling about it?

For me it’s like this: I’m never in my bed during daytime. Also, I do not use my phone in the bed. I don’t watch TV lying in my bed. My bed is actually the most comfortable and peaceful place in this world that I can be in. I make my bed every day in the morning so that I can return to it and it’s perfectly prepared for my evening-self. I have a particular setup of my pillow. A small cozy blanket to cover it and the area below my shoulders. Whatever works for you. I can also recommend to get some high quality material linen.

Whenever I decide I go to bed, I’m actually looking forward to just lay down on my back and enjoy this wonderful feeling. I reflect on my day, thinking how well it feels to lay here.

The time before lying down I have somewhat a routine of dimmed lights which are located low (in altitude) in the room. There are receptors in the lower area of your eyes which become active when you have light from right above. Just try to have an atmosphere in your room similar to a sunset. Maybe try to sit down with a cup of tea. Prepare for that moment of laying down.

Another thing that helps me tremendously is to do some very deep stretching or yoga right before bed time. I feel that it’s the best possible preparation to relax. There are stretches which you hold for 5 minutes in one position. After these deep stretches, which already calm your mind down - you can feel the relaxing reeling in your legs strongly when you lay down and pay attention.

Usually sleep comes very quickly for after this routine. It came to me over time, what works for me. I’m pretty sure it’s different for you - just to give you some inspiration.

Hope it helps.

[skydhash]

I don't know if that will really help as it is effortless for me and I've never given a lot of though to how it is for other people. My method is to go to sleep only when I'm tired. I may relax on the bed when reading a book or scrolling the web, but otherwise, I'm standing or sitting and most likely out of the bedroom. But as soon as I feel really tired, I go on the bed and remove anything that may impede my sleep. I turn off the tv and anything that is bright (lot of status leds). I remove anything on the bed and get into my relax position. Sleep usually follows soon after. If it does not, I got up and do things (watch TV, play games, browse the internet). Bed for me is heavily associated with sleep. Another trigger is my relax position.

[mrsareen]

To attain this super-power one needs to learn how to put yourself in peripheral vision(looking at multiple things at any given time). Now close your eyes and see the difference. This is also a powernap technique. Pls refer my article on this - https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/state-our-eyes-nitin-sareen/

[muzani]

Wake up really early. You'll be too tired to sleep late. On the days you're up until 5, stay up until night.

It'll hurt a lot the first day you do it, but the next day should be fine. Yes, that means waking early on a weekend and being a zombie for the whole day.

I tried everything else as well for years, and it fixed my sleep problems in a day, every time.

[sedocmiv]

I agree with @PaulHoule note on meditation. It helps me a ton. If you are new to this, one idea is sign up for a 10-day silent retreat[1]. There are apps, however this in-person, all distractions removed has worked wonders for me. It's free (food and lodging). Also here's one key tip that could help make it successful.[2] Planning to attend another one next month!

I am also envious of those that can sleep anywhere, anytime. That is not me for sure. I have to work to sleep! LOL. I think some other things to consider are light exposure, last meal time, exercise, waking up at the same time, mask and earplugs. Feel free to skip any of these you have already tried.

RE: light exposure; I feel that when I'm not around devices (TV, phone, monitors) or light sources (bulbs, LED lights) etc, my body is able to feel tired earlier. I try and reduce lighting after 7pm to get my body 'ready' to sleep. This also is a good excuse for me to be off my computer at a reasonable time. Candle light and a fire has a way of making me feel naturally tired.

RE: last meal time; I feel that when I have my last meal by 7pm, there's a good chance that I feel empty enough to go to sleep. While my gf prefers to eat right before she goes to bed, I found the opposite works for me. I also like waking up feeling hungry rather than sleeping on a full stomach.

RE: exercise; working out doing something, walking, running, weights, whatever seems to help me feel tired earlier.

RE: waking up at the same time; sometimes I don't feel tired and end up staying up until 4am due to some Netflix special that I just HAVE TO know what happens. I try and force myself to get up at the same time and eventhough I'll be tired the next day, there's a good chance I can get back on schedule.

RE: ear plugs and eye mask; I feel these are awesome to help me fall asleep and stay asleep. I'm a light sleeper and so once I'm up it's hard to fall back asleep. Also these help when I'm in a new environment (hotels or friend's house).

My goal is to be in bed by 11pm. 10pm would be even better. I've been tracking my data for about 6 months. I am able to hit this goal on average 73% of the time. I'm hoping to get this up to 75% next quarter. It's not my goal to be perfect but rather just improve slowly. I also understand that I will regress from time to time and that's ok as well.

[1] https://www.dhamma.org/en-US/index [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsBoBSm6dBE

[barcoder]

Read up on how the army trains soldiers to fall asleep quickly in war zones.