Ask HN: What kind of MMO would interest you?

[desertraven]

I was just reading a comment thread here on HN about how many people have fond memories of their time spent on MMOs.

A recurring theme of this particular thread was that MMOs have changed nowadays, and have lost their “cosy” appeal. Here I was thinking I just got older and had less time.

All things considered, what kind of MMO would you consider spending time in? Are the reasons social, or to do with gameplay?

[wexomania]

I would love something with the crafting, housing and city systems like Star Wars Galaxies.

I also enjoyed the combat and style of WildStar.

I am always more pve oriented, but i really liked Planetside 2 when it first was released, now they have simplified it too much, probably due to a lack of players...

And eve online always lingers in a «I really want to get back into that but i already have one full time job now» territory.

Edit: I guess I would love something that whould have all of that, but that would be waaaay to unrealistic. But, if something could re-create the magick of clearing nax the first time with your guildies then i would be happy.

So to boil it down; something that promotes cooperation and community i guess?

[desertraven → wexomania]

Thanks for the great response!

Just wanting to pick your brain on a couple of points...

1. Do you think an effective MMO can exist without being an extensive time sink? If so, how?\ 2. Community and cooperation are the lifeblood of MMOs - working together to meet a goal. I like the idea of building games, but I can't justify it because I think both myself and others should spend their time pursuing goals that will improve the quality of the real world. Do you think these two can co-exist? People pursuing in-game goals which directly or indirectly map to positive outcomes in the real world?

My second point may be a little long-winded - but I'd like people not to feel guilty about spending their time on an MMO because by playing it they are having a positive impact elsewhere.

[wexomania → desertraven]

1. I think it depends on what you put in «time sink».

Some MMOs can be a real slog to level throug and you would loose interest quickly, but removing the concept entirely would take away from the sense of progression, maby you could move most of the progression to be server / community based? Something akin to what Ashes of Creation promises?

I remember Peter Molyneux`s game «Curiosity»[0]. It was sort of an MMO, where the entire point was to collectively tap away to «mine» chunks to reveal what was inside. In the end only one person would mine the last chunk and actually get the «price» This «MMO» was all grind / time sink and people went crazy about it. (Or maby it was just the lottery ticket feeling of «It might be me that mines the last chunk!».)

2. This is a really interesting problem, and I am a bit suprised I haven`t heard more people talk about it.

It would be interesting to see some kind of integration with crypto currencies or smart contracts, but I do find it a bit scary to link real world economics and game economics so clearly, even thoug it already has happened(Sometimes intentionally as well).

Just look at the what happened with Venezuela and RuneScape last year. [1]

Now, on a slightly unrelated note, I am not sure an MMO in the traditional sense ever could be the «WOW killer» so many have been waiting for,

Not because I don`t think a tradtional MMO could beat WOW, but that i think the next «big thing» would be more of a platform than a singular game,

think; Mastodon meets Oasis from Ready Player One.

A decentralized community driven social playground.

[0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curiosity:_What%27s_Inside_the... [1] https://www.polygon.com/features/2020/5/27/21265613/runescap...

[desertraven → wexomania]

Great points! I'm glad to be talking with someone far more knowledgable on games than I.

Do you think with current technology we could build a primitive version of MORPO (Mastodon meets Oasis from Ready Player One)? Enough that a gradual roadmap to MORPO can be envisioned as technology progresses? Laying the groundwork so to speak.

[wexomania → desertraven]

I think so, the most difficult part would be to find an intuitive way for people to make their server the way they want, For instance, I want a server where you could bring your buddies and have a cart racing session, whilst my little nephew wants to have a server for his haunted mansion escape room game, and so on...

[desertraven → wexomania]

How would you envision a MORPO MVP (minimum viable product) currently?

[wexomania → desertraven]

Everything would be running on https / wss

It would need a character creator, and somewhere to store characters and accounts. A portal / teleport / server list system to move between servers. A server would need to be able to authenticate users from different servers / databases. OAuth would probably do the trick, unless there is a better standard for decentralized systems now. A basic «admin» mode where you would access a level / server editor Basic multiplayer capabilities, walk around the same area, chat, etc...

I am thinking that the client should just run in the browser, web based 3d graphics are not amazing, but good enough for an MVP, and it makes loading custom server assets super easy, just like CDN`s,

Websockets for networking.

A basic version of the server could be based on node.js, for ease of scripability / extensability, i think it would be limiting when it comes to scalability of single server / node, but that would not be that critical for an MVP.

I am probably forgetting important stuff, its been a while since I last thought about this.

[SN76477 → wexomania]

SWG Bloodfin checking in.

[pitched]

I think the closest thing right now is actually Fortnite. For how crazy it sounds when Tim Sweeney talks about Fortnite as a platform, I think it's as close as we've come yet.

The early game is all about grinding up your gear. Looking for chests, looking for ammo. Everyone is marking good gear for each other. Everyone is on the lookout for the odd group getting too close.

Then the late game is more like a hunt than a grind. Where it's time to put your gear to use! Head for the centre of the map and see how far your team can get.

The biggest problem for me is that 4-person teams aren't quite enough. And matches are done within 5-20 minutes which is both too short for a good raid but also too long just to pop in and grind for a bit. So it's like the perfect MMO, condensed as small as possible in both player counts and time. I just think maybe they condensed too far.

[Jemaclus]

I loved the original Guild Wars. There was a decent solo storyline, and then you could play with friends. I've had a hard time making friends on other MMOs...

One thing that instantly turns me off is micro-transactions. I'm happy to pay a monthly subscription if there's enough gameplay to make it worth it (I.e., not just grinding quests like WoW), but when the only way to get the best gear is by paying for it, I'm out. I like games where I can win on my merits and skill and group dynamics, not on how fat my wallet is.

I used to play a MUD (kind of a text-based MMORPG) back in the day. You'd get about 50 levels of solo play before you had to start playing with other people. You COULD play with others, or you could play by yourself. It was really fun! There were ~1000 levels of group play. This was a great way to meet some folks who were also in your level. Over time, you made friends! After you reached about level 900 or so, you could advance to the next tier, at which point you HAD to play with groups.

In this last tier, the entire group (as many players as possible) would go out on a single raid to take down a single monster, and it took a lot of work and it took forever. The monster would drop a few pieces of loot (including one "top tier" item), and there would be a lottery system to determine the winners of the gear. It was a really fun way to play, especially because everyone was a good sport about it. If you already had the gear, you would pass on the lottery, usually. People who already had the gear would go along on the raid just to help other people (and of course to have fun)! It was a very team-oriented culture.

I haven't found a game since then that had that spirit. I really wish I could find something like that.

To me, micro-transaction culture and uber-competitive has completely killed gaming for me. I'm just not interested in pay-to-win scenarios or playing with trolls/jerks.

But a solid single-player experience and a solid cooperative experience where you can play with nice, decent people (especially people you already know)... That would be killer for me.

[desertraven → Jemaclus]

Thanks so much for the feedback.

Let's say such a game were in development - meets the criteria you mentioned and has an enforced "be respectful" policy much like HN. What would the MVP look like?

[markus_zhang]

If it allows extensive scripting on player side it would be really nice. But again I know it's very difficult to get it correct.

Other than that, I also love to have global events which promotes cooperation between players or even guilds/alliances.

If I could choose a theme, then I'd prefer 1) DND theme, 2) Three Body theme (the S-F novel).

BTW are you developing one? Which language are you using? Any chance I could tackle along and contribute to the project? Just curious.

[SN76477]

I want wow type party systems

Guild wars 2 style monetization

The randomness and surprises from modern rogue likes

The depth of magic the gathering game mechanics

User generated content like never winter nights

[desertraven → SN76477]

Let's say there was such an MMO in development. What would the MVP look like? What is the bare minimum it would need before you'd give it a shot?

[SN76477 → desertraven]

I do not know to be honest. I have been disenchanted with mmos so long I have not thought about them much.

Ask me again and I may have an answer for you.