> Why? Why is a woman, just because she's a woman, supposed to be treated unfairly? Just because some people were treated badly (supposedly) by other women? That's just... random. If I were treated badly by a blond person once, or even more times, that wouldn't make it OK for me to treat blonds badly, just because they're blond.
I don't think you understand the magnitude to which this occurs. When a man has been rejected/ignored by EVERY SINGLE woman he has met thus far, you can't really blame him for not being very friendly towards the next woman he meets. This is a far cry from being "treated badly by a blond person once, or even more times".
> They just don't put as much effort into "socializing" that they do into other things.
Then perhaps women that want to be a part of the tech scene should put more effort into "socializing" as well. The high school social scene is every bit as brutal to nerds as the tech social scene is to women.
When a man has been rejected/ignored by EVERY SINGLE woman he has met thus far, you can't really blame him for not being very friendly towards the next woman he meets.
Of course and without question you can. The imposition here is that your constructed nerd is emotionally immature to the point where he cannot divorce the actions of one person from another. He may even be so emotionally immature--but that is his problem and nobody else's. Accepting and condoning it cannot be borne.
Then perhaps women that want to be a part of the tech scene should put more effort into "socializing" as well.
I am hoping I am reading this wrong, because the implication behind your use of the word "socializing" seems to not be the same as your post's parent. Please expound on this. What do you expect them to do?
> Of course and without question you can. The imposition here is that your constructed nerd is emotionally immature to the point where he cannot divorce the actions of one person from another. He may even be so emotionally immature--but that is his problem and nobody else's. Accepting and condoning it cannot be borne.
Then what is your solution? When someone gets treated like shit by a group of people for years on end, you can't expect them to turn around and smile to that same group of people who are suddenly interested in him because he's overflowing with cash. It might be a surprise to you, but nerds are not unemotional robots.
> I am hoping I am reading this wrong, because the implication behind your use of the word "socializing" seems to not be the same as your post's parent. Please expound on this. What do you expect them to do?
Just as the quintessential nerd sticks out like a sore thumb in high school, women tend to stick out like a sore thumb in the tech industry. A lot of women in the tech industry tend to capitalize on their "otherness", just as nerds do in high school. In both cases, it's counterproductive.
Nobody's talking about "smiling" at them. They are, however, talking about not demanding sex from them and barring them from conferences because they refused. There's a pretty broad separation here.
You don't have to like every person you meet. I certainly don't. But you do have to tolerate them.
> Nobody's talking about "smiling" at them. They are, however, talking about not demanding sex from them and barring them from conferences because they refused. There's a pretty broad separation here.
Like I said above, I am NOT condoning sexual harrassment or any other illegal activity in any way. I'm speaking in more general terms as to why the poor treatment women receive in the tech industry is not arbitrary or unfounded.
"Some people who had a vagina didn't like me, so I'm going to hate on all people with vaginas." Yeah, that's arbitrary (do you hate on all people with a high melanin count because you're mugged by an African-American?) and unfounded (is there any rational reason to believe all African-Americans are muggers?).
You are desperately trying to rationalize shitty behavior by immature people. The answer's not in "but she wouldn't date me when I wasn't attractive or interesting or socially competent".
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Again: you don't have to like everyone. You do have to tolerate them. This should be so basic as to be beyond argument.
> When a man has been rejected/ignored by EVERY SINGLE woman he has met thus far, you can't really blame him for not being very friendly towards the next woman he meets.
a) "Not very friendly" is a different thing from assault and harassment. Don't use weasel words; you are writing a defence of the assaults and harassment in your comments, not "unfriendliness."
b) Where do you think the rejections are coming from?
I can't imagine that many women would want to date someone who resents their entire gender based upon some juvenile grudge.
> The high school social scene is every bit as brutal to nerds as the tech social scene is to women.
Thus the two evils are cancelled out, and everyone is absolved of all responsibility for their actions!
> "Not very friendly" is a different thing from assault and harassment. Don't use weasel words; you are writing a defence of the assaults and harassment in your comments, not "unfriendliness."
I am not condoning sexual harrassment or any other illegal activity in any way. But I don't see a problem with giving what you get (i.e., not going out of your way to help out or be friendly to women in the industry).
> I can't imagine that many women would want to date someone who resents their entire gender based upon some juvenile grudge.
You're putting the cart before the horse. The grudge is a RESULT of women not wanting to date them, NOT the CAUSE.
> Thus the two evils are cancelled out, and everyone is absolved of all responsibility for their actions!
> Wait... that's not how it works? </sarcasm>
You're still missing the point. People are not impartial and unemotional, even in a professional setting. Years of mental conditioning cannot be undone by just stating that certain rules of professional conduct must be followed.
I don't see a problem with giving what you get (i.e., not going out of your way to help out or be friendly to women in the industry)
Who's talking about "helping women out"? They don't need help. We're talking about not attacking them. You continue to use weasel words, except when directly confronted with your acceptance of harassment and assault, that imply that--hey--it's just not that big a deal.
You are wrong. It is that big a deal. And acceptance of these behaviors--you can say you're not, but to be entirely honest I suspect disingenuity--is also wrong.
You're putting the cart before the horse. The grudge is a RESULT of women not wanting to date them, NOT the CAUSE.
And if they're emotionally unstable and immature enough to hold that sort of grudge, why exactly would anyone want to date them in the first place?
It does, at the end of the day, go back to people who are reasonable and well-adjusted having little interest in close personal relationships with people who are unreasonable and ill-adjusted. Why should they behave otherwise? Why can't the ill-adjusted people with the seething rage toward anyone who doesn't have a Y chromosome grow up a little?
People are not impartial and unemotional, even in a professional setting. Years of mental conditioning cannot be undone by just stating that certain rules of professional conduct must be followed.
> Who's talking about "helping women out"? They don't need help. We're talking about not attacking them.
I'm not suggesting women in particular need help. Whether it's high school or the tech industry, a helping hand is always nice when you're getting started. But there's no reason to give one to someone who never gave you one when you needed it.
> And if they're emotionally unstable and immature enough to hold that sort of grudge, why exactly would anyone want to date them in the first place?
Emotional instability and immaturity are not personality traits inherent to all nerds. They are a RESULT of years of being ignored by women.
Like I said before, the grudge is a RESULT of women not wanting to date them. At the beginning of high school, the nerds weren't emotionally unstable or immature. That is a RESULT of social isolation.
> It does, at the end of the day, go back to people who are reasonable and well-adjusted having little interest in close personal relationships with people who are unreasonable and ill-adjusted. Why should they behave otherwise? Why can't the ill-adjusted people with the seething rage toward anyone who doesn't have a Y chromosome grow up a little?
For the same reason that high school girls can't grow up a little and stop ignoring all the guys who aren't wearing jock straps and walking around with footballs.
> Oh. It's hard, so they shouldn't do it.
And it's hard to socialize with nerds in high school, so women just shouldn't do it, right?
Ah. I see now. It is women's fault for not understanding the special inner beauty and desirability of nerds, but not nerds' fault for choosing--as in, an active choice--to be avoidant shrooms at the computer. That makes complete sense.
...
Wait...sorry, no, it makes no sense at all. And it's bullshit, to boot. Hell, I wasn't "wearing a jock strap and walking around with a football"--I'm overweight, tried out for the baseball team and totally bombed it, and was legendarily bad at sports in general--but I did all right. I could have been called a nerd in high school and college. I had serious computer interests (and in college I did Google Summer of Code twice), I was horrible at sports, all that. But I chose to socialize and act like a reasonably normal guy. Sports and all that are nice, I'm sure, but a decent--not great--personality, a willingness to take risks and sometimes be embarrassed, and a modicum of wit did, and do, me pretty well.
It's not about playing sports. It's about leaving the basement and choosing to not adopt a victim complex just because some--not all, but some--people don't like you. These are things that our hypothetical nerds can choose to do, but don't.
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Nerds make it impossible for people to want to socialize with them. I know this from experience, 'cause I did it too--I just realized what I was doing and stopped. Then they turn around and make other people--who, in this case, want to socialize with them, want to go to a conference where they are--miserable. That is, to be completely blunt, utterly fucked. And the blame lies solely on them for refusing to grow the hell up and act like a halfway decent human being.
I don't think you understand the magnitude to which this occurs. When a man has been rejected/ignored by EVERY SINGLE woman he has met thus far, you can't really blame him for not being very friendly towards the next woman he meets. This is a far cry from being "treated badly by a blond person once, or even more times".
> They just don't put as much effort into "socializing" that they do into other things.
Then perhaps women that want to be a part of the tech scene should put more effort into "socializing" as well. The high school social scene is every bit as brutal to nerds as the tech social scene is to women.