For the Hong Kong protesters to be successful perhaps they have to "export" their values and demands to be applicable for the rest of China rather than their microcosm. I suspect Guangzhou, Shenzen, Dongguan may have no sympathy for those in Hong Kong who have more rights and a better standard of living than they do.
> have no sympathy for those in Hong Kong who have more rights and a better standard of living than they do.
I always find this paradox as interesting as sad.
This Lose/Win mentality evolved as a solution to small community of humans with limited resources. In that situation, how to split the insufficient resources is the main problem. The more others get, the less is left for me.
In current modern society, the more education and resources has the people around me the more they produce and I can benefit from it.
Or brain did not evolve to our modern world, I guess. Helping people to think Win/Win would be a great paradigm shift moving into the future of our society.
It's crab mentality [1] and you're right, it's extremely sad. We see it absolutely everywhere. So many people who (for example) hate the rich rather than loving the poor.
It would have been possible, or at least HK thought that was going to happen 20 years ago. The whole of China will become more HK alike. Instead China's close grip on power meant any of these western Values were not allowed to be exposed. Even the spoken languages Cantonese is silently being killed at an alarming rate.
> For the Hong Kong protesters to be successful perhaps they have to "export" their values and demands to be applicable for the rest of China
Not necessarily. Beijing is violating an agreement lodged with the UN.
The protesters just need to get the population in a G7 country pissed off enough to turn this bill into an international issue, thereby increasing the cost of its introduction to Beijing.
Because China wanted to be part of the UN. If they don't want the UN to have any saying in their matters they should leave and face the consequences. I don't know if this says more about China or the UN, to be honest.
I think you touch on something very relevant. I have been there quite a few times and I like it there but many Chinese see Hong Kong people as spoiled and snobbish. Back when China took over Hong Kong, Hong Kong was something special. Today many mainland Chinese cities are just as wealthy and almost as international as Hong Kong; yet Hong Kong clings on to its special status.
Why are these people not fighting for better rule of law in all of China? Where is the solidarity?
Many cities on the Chinese mainland are nearly as wealthy as Hong Kong but none of them are remotely as "international".
And asking "why are [Hong Kongers] not fighting for better rule of law in all of China? Where is the solidarity?" either betrays a serious lack of understanding of how the Chinese political system works or is a question asked in bad faith.
We have no idea of knowing, but from what I've heard, they are simply not aware. Almost anything with the phrase "Hong Kong" was censored inside mainland China today.
It's not too hard to find something on Weibo, e.g. this post in support of the police [1] where the highest-upvoted comment at 281 votes condemns the police violence [2].
Huh? That not everyone agrees doesn't mean nobody believed her. The highest-voted reply complains about censorship. The second-highest talks about the police acting in self-defense. The third-highest fantasizes about shooting ... someone (I initially interpreted it to mean the police, but maybe they actually want to shoot the protesters?)
Chinese government is paying Chinese people 500 HKD (Hong Kong dollars) to cross the border and counter protest so that they can report there are 800k counter protestors.
It looks like you are blaming people for standing up for their rights. The reason they still have special status is also because they have not been shy about fighting for their rights in the past, otherwise it would have been taking away a long time ago.
Instead of blaming people for defending their rights (bringing everyone down), perhaps a better avenue would be to stand up with them and also protest and ask for more rights (bringing everyone up).
Firstly, the proposed law in question affects mainland Chinese people just as much as local HK people (in fact, it affects everyone who steps foot in Hong Kong).
Secondly, what do you think all those Tiananmen Square vigils held in HK every single year for the past 30 years were for?
Not disagreeing, but just want to note that there's a huge difference between the people doing the June 4 vigils (patriotic, love China, older age, want a democratic united China) and the people doing the current protest (young, unpatriotic, hate China, want independence).
I wouldn't be so sure that they're a completely disjointed set. Many who attended the vigil this year were quite young, for example, while many older people were on the streets as well today.
The CPC will violently crush any attempt to ask for the rule of law in mainland China. If you protest in mainland China you may get Tiananmen Square'd. The authoritarian regime does NOT permit criticism, introspection, or questioning of the CPC regime. Public communication is censored.
That's like saying I shouldn't fight for my rights unless I fight for the rights of every person on planet earth. Where does our obligation to others start and end? No. First and foremost I will fight for my own freedoms.
One reason is simply that most of these cities exist today by virtue of top-down fiat, planning and investment. That is, they owe their present prosperity to the govt.'s policies.
Isn't that impossible without becoming a high ranking member of the Communist party? And isn't becoming a high ranking member of the Communist party impossible to do if you don't mostly agree with the current system of laws in mainland China?
You have to look at this issue from a Hong Kong resident point of view (I am not a Hong Kong resident). Since the handover to the China government, the average living cost is higher than ever before [1], real estate price skyrocket due to huge amount of investment from China[2]. Some Hong Kongers
may blame these issues to "mainlanders" for "disrupting" their live.
Also in 2013 "mainlanders" rush to Hong Kong to buy milk powder due to the poisonous milk power scandal in China,
causing a shortage of milk power in Hong Kong [3]. I certainly wouldn't be happy if suddenly I can't buy milk power for my child because my neighbour had bought all of them.
Interestingly a lot of HK people here feel the rest of China is looking down on / showing no respect to us and everything that makes HK different from the mainland.
This relationship between Hong Kong people and mainland people is quite similar to immigrant issues in the West. Mainland immigrants are perceived to not work, receive free apartments in the world's most expensive city, and have poor judgment in things ranging from politics to obeying the call of nature.
That's from the same school of thought that brought us the Syrian red line on poisonous gas, the successes of the Arab spring and the democratic reforms after tieanmin square? Demanding a revolution far away from danger at the top of your voice while with your voting feet trampling these futures of choice? If you want to remain free get out of Hong Kong while you still can..
