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First, it's "Ponzi scheme", not "Ponzy scheme".

Second, if you look, I think you'll find that Bitcoin shares a lot of attributes with Ponzi schemes; you could say that it's a Ponzi whose innovation is to be globally distributed on the Internet. Specifically:

* Returns to Bitcoin investors are funded by successive waves of future investors; Bitcoin's value will collapse without a steady supply of them.

* A significant part of the capitalization of Bitcoin is owned by "hodlers" who accumulate "paper" earnings that don't demand any real-world reckoning.

* It's structurally difficult to withdraw funds --- particularly large amounts of funds --- from the Bitcoin network; see, for instance, Tim Bray's experience.

* The whole phenomenon is backed by a core group that includes significant "early" or "founder" allocations.

Part of the problem with trying to pull apart "Ponzi schemes" and "bubbles" is that many (but not all) previous bubbles were fueled in part by a series of Ponzi schemes; for instance, during the first bubble, IPOs for companies that could not possibly have succeeded under any circumstances, or, during the housing bubble, AAA-rated securities for bundles of distressed mortgages.



Ponzi schemes involve fraud by an operator secretly paying out existing investors with new investors' money. Unless exchanges are artificially inflating the price and running fractional reserves then Bitcoin is not a Ponzi scheme.


That's not necessary. From wikipedia: "A Ponzi scheme (/ˈpɒn.zi/; also a Ponzi game)[1] is a fraudulent investment operation where the operator generates returns for older investors through revenue paid by new investors, rather than from legitimate business activities or profit of financial trading."

Bitcoin's only real value is that of the chance of being adopted as currency. For it to become a currency people have to start buying bitcoins, as it is the only realistic way get hold of them. So the only way to make value for the current holders(older invenstors) is more people buying into it(revenue paid by new investors)


But where is the fraud? And who is the "operator" perpetrating it?

Anyone can do their own research and come to conclusions about the future valuation of Bitcoin.


Sure, but you can say that about a lot of totally bogus investment instruments. Every pump-and-dump pink sheet scam has the same property.


Sure, but you're arguing Bitcoin is a "Ponzi scheme", which has a specific meaning, not just a bad investment.


Right. Again: look at the characteristics of a Ponzi:

* Outsized returns

* All the returns are funded by successive waves of investors

* Most "investors" hold, riding it out in the hopes of accumulating gains

* Easier to get into than out of, even if some eventually can


Also:

* Fraud


“Operators” are the core team and early adopters and exchanges.

Well if all the above are not enough for you to classify as a Ponzi scheme, not sure what to say. I have no further arguments.


What fraud are you referring to?




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