> Almost no-one has questioned whether these videos are indeed harmful to children.
Then feel free to question it. Since this refers to a large body of videos, make sure you did your homework. Just some random things from the top of the pile if you will (but it's a big pile and frankly, even just the amount of very messed up things on the surface doesn't exactly make me want to measure out this particular ocean in full detail, I am scared less of watch lists than just poisoning my own brain or making myself sad for no reason or rather, with no constructive outcome -- but at least I'm not gonna be the guy/gal you chose to be, who hears a sea gull sample on the radio to tell us off for being fascinated by marine life)
Though I agree with you in that this hardly is some magical line beyond which stuff becomes harmful, but it's a very high concentration of it. We let marketing instill "brand loyalty" in kids, now they use cartoon figures and brands babies are likely to know to groom them for other purposes:
We live in a world where people physically throwing out poisoned bait for dogs is a thing. So apart from ad revenue or considerations about pedophile cults, even "just" producing this stuff en masse for the "fun" of destroying minds is a real possibility. You can roll your eyes at that, but when it's this big and obviously laced with known themes of abuse and methods of grooming, that says nothing about the issue and all about your superficial knowledge of it. Why would the reaction to something you can't even be bothered to actually look at "alarm" you either way?
No, I didn't watch most of these videos either. The titles are enough. "bad babies playing doctor toys put an enema song nursery rhymes for children". Thanks. And actual real human beings dress up and play weird [<-- that's an euphemism, it means what they actually do show in the videos, not what people read into it, or other things that have been previously called "weird" in other contexts] things, often in mansion like houses with flashy cars in the driveway.
This is a specific phenomenon. We don't really fully know what's going on and who does it why or bandwagons what. Which we aren't exactly to blame for, having asked for none of it, but at least making a better job at taking it seriously than you. Whatever it may remind you of, it's only what it actually is. Look at the actual specific stuff or don't. But nevermind parents, just as a human being I would tread lightly here before informing myself better.
> that sensationalizes these videos to the point where I was afraid the video would destroy my brain a-la Snow Crash.
The video? As in singular? How do you make the connection from you watching one full video (since most are above 10 minutes I doubt even that) as an adult to the harm that might be done to children ranging from 0 to infant who might watch hours and weeks of them being "sensationalized"?
How many hours of these videos across how many individual clips and accounts have you seen? Would you let your kids watch these things unsupervised, if yes, for how long per week at most? These three questions should be the entrance requirement to take part in this discussion, because if you belittle this without even having actually looked it, well, don't put that on yourself. Because it reads like people who belittle or rationalize atrocities that happen under their watch and with their implicit support. "Detrimental to children" in light of these videos, and their sheer amount, is like calling mass murder "not very nice".
I don't even have the foundation to do my homework; I'm not a psychologist.
I watched several of the videos. I can't say they kept me up at night (but that doesn't mean anything in the context of the discussion). I have no idea by what mechanism these would traumatize children; perhaps someone more familiar with child psychology could think of something similar? If these videos are completely unlike anything before them, any conjecture is meaningless. I'm in no way saying that they are or are not harmless.
I'm more concerned that any knowledge that can be gleaned about this phenomenon is being buried under emotionally charged moral outrage
> We live in a world where people physically throwing out poisoned bait for dogs is a thing.
Red herring.
> As in singular?
I mistakenly mixed my tenses, I said "videos" and then "video." My apologies.
> "Detrimental to children" in light of these videos, and their sheer amount, is like calling mass murder "not very nice".
To be clear, are you comparing the effect of these videos on children to 'mass murder?' I can't make heads or tails of your analogy.
As a thought exercise, there are a lot of commonalities between these videos and the average commercial that plays at 8pm:
- 'sheer amount'
- revenue makers
- children might watch hours of them if unsupervised by parents
- people think they will destroy the minds of the youth using some unexplained power
- mass murder for young minds (unverified)
> I have no idea by what mechanism these would traumatize children
Well, you just watched a bunch. You didn't watch the theme of drugging and raping people, mutilation, dissociation, murder, incest, blood, and on and on and on, over a stretch of TEN THOUSANDS of videos, produced in concert by hundreds of channels.
You basically are comparing the effect of you as an adult watching a few videos \* with toddlers aged 0 to x, the more neglected of them watching who knows on them, on a site where the people who create the tech to make this happen by itself reside, enabled by the company that is owned by our favorite future shaping company. This isn't obscure, this isn't at your doorstep, this is in your house, and this is how seriously you take it.
Un-fucking-believable.
You at least know that neural pathways are still formed when outside the womb, and how crucial the first few years are for brain development and the whole life? You're not a psychologist, you say? You are a human being and therefor amateur psychologist by default, you are literate, and you have internet access. There is no excuse.
Even just the fact that they might overhear adults, some of them pointing out that abusing children on purpose is wrong, and others excusing their own apathy with the shoddiest sophistry they can drag up, could be damaging for a child. It might consider that a viable option, instead of the fucked up thing it is.
\* (a few 30 or 60 minute long ones? I doubt, so what does several even mean? this is like someone talking about microplastic and bioaccumulation and you sniffing your fleece sweater saying you don't see a problem, and expecting to be delivered everything on a silver tablet instead of getting off your own butt, and that's generous, and seeing how we're not talking about harm nobody could have foreseen but deliberate assault, automated and on a mass scale, I simply don't feel burdened to convince you. I have to organize with those who don't need convincing (because they don't need to be pushed to take a closer look, and don't easily give up because they know the energy their child can have getting glued to things), to bring this to the attention of parents, and the rest can sleep with their conscience and their response to the question how they reacted when someone said there is something here, it's really really fucked up, please leave your convenience and attention span at the door and stand with me for long as this issue that others unleashed on us against our will takes. How could I ever break bread with these people ever again before, you know, clearing this up? You weren't there when it was against toddlers and when all it took was to cut back on your regular entertainment for a week to get up to speed. Will you be there if worse things come? Or side with the abuser even quicker, having conditioned yourself to do so in "little" cases like this? This is a historical moment and like all of them, those on the wrong side are totally unaware during it, and make up even more BS afterwards. Been there, done that, this issue is too big, too easy to research (just put it on autoplay and do chores and wait until you get really disturbing vibes, no need to bother yourself with reading a book about abuse or brain development), and targets too defenseless people. You think I'm abrasive and maybe really nasty, I think that I replied at all was generous. After all, if you can get over being offended for calling you out, it contains information and constitutes another chance, as does every free minute of every day from now on. Over and out.)
> You at least know that neural pathways are still formed when outside the womb
> You are a human being and therefor amateur psychologist by default, you are literate, and you have internet access. There is no excuse.
So, by logic, if a child hasn't been taught to read and write by the time they're 3-years-old, they will never recover, they will always be less successful? That's my excuse then, I'm arguing with you because my neural pathways weren't well formed when I was 2-years-old.
From my experience, most people who claim to be experts on toddler brains aren't neurologists, they're flash card salesmen.
What I'm trying to say is that when we're talking about neurology and psychology, LOGIC is not useful.
---
But I digress. I can see this hits close to home for you, and that I'm raising your ire by wanting to discuss details when you see a large threat that needs to be eliminated, not examined.
I concede that you may be right on this point. I completely agree, these videos should be removed from Youtube (for several reasons). But that doesn't preclude discussing the videos objectively.
Then feel free to question it. Since this refers to a large body of videos, make sure you did your homework. Just some random things from the top of the pile if you will (but it's a big pile and frankly, even just the amount of very messed up things on the surface doesn't exactly make me want to measure out this particular ocean in full detail, I am scared less of watch lists than just poisoning my own brain or making myself sad for no reason or rather, with no constructive outcome -- but at least I'm not gonna be the guy/gal you chose to be, who hears a sea gull sample on the radio to tell us off for being fascinated by marine life)
https://www.reddit.com/r/ElsaGate/comments/7cacnp/my_little_...
https://www.reddit.com/r/ElsaGate/comments/78mz7f/forced_sla...
Though I agree with you in that this hardly is some magical line beyond which stuff becomes harmful, but it's a very high concentration of it. We let marketing instill "brand loyalty" in kids, now they use cartoon figures and brands babies are likely to know to groom them for other purposes:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ElsaGate/comments/7c5kar/another_re...
We live in a world where people physically throwing out poisoned bait for dogs is a thing. So apart from ad revenue or considerations about pedophile cults, even "just" producing this stuff en masse for the "fun" of destroying minds is a real possibility. You can roll your eyes at that, but when it's this big and obviously laced with known themes of abuse and methods of grooming, that says nothing about the issue and all about your superficial knowledge of it. Why would the reaction to something you can't even be bothered to actually look at "alarm" you either way?
https://www.reddit.com/r/ElsaGate/comments/7c114l/sick_fvcks...
No, I didn't watch most of these videos either. The titles are enough. "bad babies playing doctor toys put an enema song nursery rhymes for children". Thanks. And actual real human beings dress up and play weird [<-- that's an euphemism, it means what they actually do show in the videos, not what people read into it, or other things that have been previously called "weird" in other contexts] things, often in mansion like houses with flashy cars in the driveway.
This is a specific phenomenon. We don't really fully know what's going on and who does it why or bandwagons what. Which we aren't exactly to blame for, having asked for none of it, but at least making a better job at taking it seriously than you. Whatever it may remind you of, it's only what it actually is. Look at the actual specific stuff or don't. But nevermind parents, just as a human being I would tread lightly here before informing myself better.
> that sensationalizes these videos to the point where I was afraid the video would destroy my brain a-la Snow Crash.
The video? As in singular? How do you make the connection from you watching one full video (since most are above 10 minutes I doubt even that) as an adult to the harm that might be done to children ranging from 0 to infant who might watch hours and weeks of them being "sensationalized"?
How many hours of these videos across how many individual clips and accounts have you seen? Would you let your kids watch these things unsupervised, if yes, for how long per week at most? These three questions should be the entrance requirement to take part in this discussion, because if you belittle this without even having actually looked it, well, don't put that on yourself. Because it reads like people who belittle or rationalize atrocities that happen under their watch and with their implicit support. "Detrimental to children" in light of these videos, and their sheer amount, is like calling mass murder "not very nice".