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Ask HN: Tips to beat procrastination and lethargy?
62 points by jamesmp98 on Sept 6, 2017 | hide | past | favorite | 37 comments
A few weeks ago, I was getting no sleep. I was putting overtime every week working third shift and it was terrible for my mental health. Now I'm working three different jobs and going to school, all of which are flexible, but I still tend to oversleep during the day. I wake up at a decent time, but feel extremely sluggish and tired and often don't get up till early afternoon. On top of this, I'm a horrible procrastinator. Altogether this has cost me a good bit of money and is looking like it could cost me a job. What can I do to help remedy these issues?



Sleep is a pretty vital process with a lot of health implications for the brain and for your body. Reading Ariana Huffington's book "The Sleep Revolution" was pretty eye-opening, also see this article: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/07/arianna-h...

Sleep helps your body regulate stress including mood. The lack of sleep can be attributed to your procrastination, as well as other possible health issues such as a lack of focus and lack of self-discipline. You're not at your optimum best.

In addition, I noticed avoiding caffeine (or going decaf) is pretty helpful. Too much caffeine reduces the quality of sleep. I personally noticed sleeping upwards up to 8 hours and feeling like I only slept 3 hours -- because my body was over-caffeinated. Cutting-down caffeine (or going cold turkey) helps a lot in the quality of sleep.

For focus -- meditation will help greatly. Learning how to meditate and doing it daily even for 10 minutes will train/discipline your mind.


You're burned out. You need to sleep 8 hours a night consistently (use melatonin, l-theanine etc. if you need it)

Procrastination is a symptom of your burnout...

See if you can take on less work, but work that has higher pay. Rearrange your life so you don't have to kill yourself just to get by. Good luck!


For procastination:

This book really helped me into stoping procastination and using my time in the things that I really wanted: "Self discipline in 10 days"

As stated above, the pomodoro technique is very useful. You can find a lot of webapps that you could use for that matter. In the beggining, I recommend you to use less work time if you struggle a lot (25 mins can be too much if you're not used to it)

For sleeping:

You can do a number of things, for example, excercising (also as stated above), it can range from running, swimming, playing a sport, weightlifting, etc, altough with your schedule it can be hard to fit in. Another resource that helped me at some point was drinking valerian extract (herb), some drops in a glass of water are pretty good. Also, you can try what in psychotherapy (more accurate in logotherapy) is called as paradoxical intention. Instead of trying to fall asleep by forcing it, just try to stay awake as long as you can. Eventually you will be so tired that you will fall asleep and have a good night.

Hope this helps.


I've read a lot of books on self discipline and IMHO that was the worst. Also pomodoro method is good for simple work, not great for programming as it interrupts flow and doesn't give enough break. I would recommend more like 2 hours work and 15-90 minutes break.

What I found more useful:

1. Deep Work, by Cal Newport. This is much more applicable for software engineers.

2. anything by Jocko Wilink. This is sort of the Navy Seal route, build grit and so on. Jocko's stuff is not fun to read, but there's a lot of insights.

3. Peak performance, basically how to do really intense stuff in the long term. Spoiler: the secret is in working hard and resting hard, and often the rest is more difficult than the work.


I use the Pomodoro Technique.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pomodoro_Technique

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/intrinsic-motivation-an...


> it was terrible for my mental health.

> I wake up at a decent time, but feel extremely sluggish and tired and often don't get up till early afternoon.

Sounds like it still is.

Mental health can be a difficult juggling act. If you try and push too far, your physical limitations might not get in the way, but your mind might.

Sometimes you just need to care for yourself, and that can mean going without other things, or the opposite: treating yourself.

I don't know your nation or the situation there, but I'd recommend talking to a psychiatrist.

If it's overwork and no sleep, they can tell you to cut yourself some slack.

But, it could also be something like depression or anxiety, and they can diagnose and put you on the right track.

Don't try and push through on your own. There are experts, and their advice can be worth listening to.


1> Now I'm working three different jobs and going to school

2> I wake up at a decent time, but feel extremely sluggish and tired

3> I'm a horrible procrastinator

I think 2 and 3 are direct results of 1. It looks like you're already squeezing yourself as hard as possible, and I don't think any amount of discipline will force more productivity out of yourself without extremely bad consequences. You may as well ask how to save up for a house when you can only spare pennies every week!

Once you're not so atrociously overcommitted your sleep and execution will get much better. Having to work 3 jobs to keep a roof over your head while going to school is an environmental problem, not a personal one.


3 different jobs and school? You're already super human. Some of us are dying with just school or one job.


1. Get enough sleep each and every night. Burning the midnight oil isn't good for your body.

2. How is your diet? Fast food, junk, might contribute to feeling sluggish. Drink enough water each day. Maybe some green tea.

3. Exercise! Make time for it.

4. Make a list for the next day of things you NEED to accomplish.

For me, I have found that eating right, exercising and getting enough sleep have done wonders for my energy, mental clarity and goals! I get up every day, drink some tea and then look at my list of tasks I MUST accomplish that day. This helps me hit the ground running.

I used to have an overnight job, 10pm - 8am and it killed my ability to do much of anything else. You are up all night while others are sleeping, then you get home and you need sleep. If you sleep to much then you can't run errands or even get much of anything done before you need to think about going back for the next 10pm - 8am shift. Stopping working this job was huge for me.


I'm actually trying to quit the third shift position, but they are begging me to stay with raises and weekend only work. I'm so tempted to because it would provide enough money for luxury or fallback if I can't make rent one month.


More money is always tempting.

Are you really working 3 jobs and not able to guarantee making rent? I can't imagine what that must feel like.


Really crazy hours. Sometimes, I'll get in a lot of hours and make plenty of money, other weeks I'll get nothing.


When you go to bed, imagine exactly what you're going to do in the morning. Like imagine jumping out of bed invigorated and taking a shower and making breakfast.

When you're procrastinating, do it by switching to a different important task (dishes, laundry, exercise, other work) rather than something like tv or reading the internet. You won't feel as demoralized that you accomplished nothing and it will help your overall well being.

When you're starting a task, break it into manageable chunks. A lot of procrastination for me is being overwhelmed by the scope of the work. Knock out a small chunk of it to feel like you've accomplished something and you'll remember that you actually like the work and overcome the initial dread.


Personally I found that the times I am most in a long term lull of procrastination, is when I am not getting enough sleep. It's sort of a self fulfilling cycle. I stay up late working, next day I try again, but I am too tired to focus, so I stay up later but get less done, next day I stay up late with even less productivity, etc. If I just break and get sleep, I am more fresh and ready to be more productive the next day. Also keeping organized, setting small task goals, eating healthy, and staying hydrated are all important for productivity.


When I had a similar problem, following good 'sleep hygiene' was what was recommended to me. Well, to be honest I still have the same problem, but when I'm disciplined enough to follow these rules they tend to help.

Basically: Exercise, don't look at screens before you go to bed, go to bed at a regular time, make sure your sleeping place is just a place to sleep and a few other things.

https://sleepfoundation.org/sleep-topics/sleep-hygiene


The plan I prescribe is just taking more mental breaks. Resting is difficult, but you obviously need more of it.

Your mind is just as active when it isn't focusing compared to it being hard at work. When you rest, your mind sorts out the things in your head. This happens most effectively when you sleep, but it also works in smaller amounts any time you zone out, daydream, drift into the subconscious.

When you don't get enough rest, your mind starts to do that processing wherever it can. This is what causes you to lack attention. A big part of it is bad habits too, often things like checking email or notifications every 5 minutes.

1. Quit social media, games, and forums (including HN). Social media is a tremendous drain on brain power. You can come back later, but I would recommend avoiding it until you have recovered. Basically, social media forces your brain to keep running, giving it new things to process, when what you want is some dead time.

2. Schedule the time when you have to do stuff. I recommend a block of work, minimum 30 minutes, max 2 hours. Schedule breaks too.

3. Get more rest. If you're feeling burnt out and not excited, you have too much stress, too little rest. You know that you have too much rest only when you are getting bored.

4. Resting means doing nothing. No TV, no games, no internet. It's all you and your subconscious. This can be meditation, walks, shower, spa, swim (or float), watching a movie with friends, sitting at a nice cafe or library.

This is very hard and will make you feel anxious, especially if you are used to a hard pace. Anxious is normal.

I split my days into two types: either "lots of pain" or "recovery".

If you find yourself just wondering where the day went, you should either be pushing yourself harder, or taking a break.

For more details, check out the books Peak Performance and Deep Work.


It is not a silver bullet, but meditation/mindfulness works and it is not as difficult as you might think.

Just five minutes a day concentrating to your breath helps me to stay alert.

This video might convince you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAcTIrA2Qhk


Have a listen to some Jordan Peterson and try to figure out why you're bothered doing anything at all.


Have you tried going to bed earlier?

I've been a night owl for most of my younger life, and only started going to bed earlier after 30. I've noticed that even if I sleep the same number of hours, I feel more energetic if my sleep hours are just earlier. For example if you're going to sleep 6~7 hours a night (which is minimum I'd say), doing a 10pm - 5pm sleep schedule would make you feel better than if you did say 2am - 9am.

I don't know the science behind why that is, probably something to do with natural human biological clocks.

You mentioned your 3 jobs and school are all flexible, so it shouldn't be too hard to adjust your sleep schedule.


You might want to look into the quality of your sleep, such as your mattress (too hard, or too soft), or your room temperature (too hot or too cold), you may even have sleep apnea, which causes people to not have great sleep. You're also kinda pushing the limits of what your mind can handle, at 3 different jobs AND going to school, you're mind is going to want to shut down all the time and not be productive. I'd recommend you focus more on one or two things if possible (fewer classes or fewer jobs) and have enough time to focus and finish what you started. I worked a part time job for all of college (20+ hours a week) and my last semester I quit my job to make sure I graduated school (I took a year longer then most people).


I sometimes suffer from procrastination and I've been sleep deprived due to stressful personal circumstance and anxiety.

I find meditating calms the mind and sets it up for the day. Try doing 10 minutes every morning. You can use the free sessions on the Headspace app to learn how to do it.

I find making lists helpful. Whether that would be what I need to do today or long-term goals which I review every week.

Also you might find the following book helpful: The Chimp Paradox: The Mind Management Programme to Help You Achieve Success, Confidence and Happiness

It really helped me! Amazon link: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Chimp-Paradox-Management-Programme-...


Do you drink alcohol? If so, it may be impairing the quality of your sleep [1].

Are you staring at a screen just before trying to sleep? Again, this may be impacting the quality of your sleep [2].

1: https://www.drinkaware.co.uk/alcohol-facts/health-effects-of...

2: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-sleep-smartphones/s...


I think this is called a shouldy approach to life[1] and it can cause you to feel frustrated and bored or angry. I can relate from experience when we used to go after made up deadlines. Sometimes the best strategy is to just STOP and let things be. Think of a time when you over exerted yourselves to achieve things you think were really important at that moment but the effect they have on your life now isn't that much.

[1] http://www.samuelthomasdavies.com/should-statements/


Exercise. Sleep. Diet. Work only 8 hours.


Very much this. We're not called "creatures of habit" for nothing: regular hours of sleep, varying by about 15 minutes at either (or both) ends, regular meal times, differing types of exercise at regular times, all this contributes to motivation and "stickability."

Of course, there's some variation between individuals, but ultimately if you're oversleeping then your life will start to become a mess. Right now, I'm in one of those screwed-up timetables and I'm not getting anything done. I'm meant to be learning C++ and I've done nothing in ... what, three weeks now. I'm going to bed at 1, 2, or even 3am, getting up anywhere from 10am-12pm. By then, I've already lost the most productive part of my day. I really hate that I'm at my best during a morning, and it may be that you aren't. What really matters is the routine.

A few others have made comments about running or working out - it's not necessary to be that intensive. A 30 minute walk will do the same for you - do you have a dog? Does your neighbor or a friend? Do yourself (and it) a favor and take it for a walk. (I recommend against taking a beagle for a walk, though. As they're scent hounds, it'll lead you for hours when it's tracking something interesting.)

tl;dr on your day off, set your alarm for (say, not knowing your work schedule) 6am, and get up, regardless of how much sleep you've had. Live your life that day, then go to bed at ~10pm. Next day, get up at the sounding of your alarm. Do what you need to do, and sleep at 10pm that night. Keep it up, and try not to let it vary too much.

In fact, I might go and set my alarm right now...


Lack of sleep piles up during the week making you feel sluggish. Get 6 hours of sleep minimum. Always sleep at the same hour. Focus on only one thing a day if you can.


Exercising 4 times a week has changed my life. I generally feel better and I have an easier time dealing with less than adequate sleep.


If you want screens before bed, try something like Flux.

https://alternativeto.net/software/f-lux/


If you're experiencing persistent procrastination, you may be suffering from ADD!


I remember briefly being told several years ago that I might have slight ADD


What is ADD?


Attention deficit disorder


https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15031688


> I'm a horrible procrastinator

Having a terrible sleep schedule will predictably cause this.

> I wake up at a decent time

When do you go to sleep? How much sleep are you actually getting? Some people need 9 hours per night. If you are getting 7 hours per night and telling yourself that you're getting enough sleep, try getting 9 consistently. Then dial it back to 8.5 after a few weeks.

> don't get up til early afternoon

So your sleep schedule fluctuates by multiple hours day-to-day? That makes things a lot worse. Give yourself a consistent bedtime.

------------

Things that you can use to improve your sleep:

- The app Freedom, which you can use to block websites on your phone while you are working. You can also schedule it to auto-block starting at your bedtime.[1]

- The apps SelfControl and ColdTurkey, to do similar things.[2][3]

- The habit of running for a kilometer every day on a treadmill or sidewalk/pavement. You won't lose weight, but it will make your sleep and your focus better.

- The habit of repeating to yourself "this is uncomfortable but it is worth it and I am stronger than I think." When you have to do something you feel proctrastinatey about. For more on this, learn about Stoicism and Rational Cognitive-Behavioral Therapy. Consider a therapist.

- The app Rainymood, which you can use as a cue to your body that it is time to sleep. Will also help you sleep through random noises.[4]

- Music that is up-tempo and mostly instrumental, such as taiko drumming, Lindsey Stirling, Natalie McMaster, or VNV Nation.[5]

- Amazon dot, which you can use to set a go-to-sleep alarm that you don't need to get out of bed to turn off for $50. [6]

- A physical alarm clock separate from your phone so you don't go from waking up to reading HN in bed.

- A sleeping mask to block the light out from your eyes for $9. [7]

- A better mattress for $190. [8]

Some of these things cost money. Losing your job costs more.

[1] https://freedom.to/

[2] https://selfcontrolapp.com/

[3] https://getcoldturkey.com/

[4] http://rainymood.com/

[5] https://music.amazon.com/user-playlists/a3d974e87a5b4c38b304...

[6] https://www.amazon.co.uk/Amazon-Echo-Dot-Generation-Black/dp...

[7] https://www.bedbathandbeyond.com/store/product/bucky-reg-40-...

[8] http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/products/mattresses/mattresses-top...


> How much sleep are you actually getting?

Just on this point (and your later point about running), I've found a Pebble Smartwatch to be helpful. It has built-in sleep tracking so you can measure your average sleep baseline, then see day to day if you've reached your baseline or not. I use the alarm features on the Pebble to remind me when I "should" be going to bed, and also to wake me up via vibration rather than audible alarm. I've found the built-in step counter to be extremely helpful too, and I did end up losing weight from it (but rather than 1km a day, I was doing 14km of walking).

Pebble has been discontinued unfortunately (FitBit Ionic is the supposed successor), but that means Pebbles are cheap on Amazon now, about $60.


Wake up and do something that seems difficult absolutely immediately. Make your bed, cold shower. Like taking cold medicine, do it all at once, quickly, get it out of the way and finished.


Making your bed 1st thing in the morning is a good way to re-enforce the message "I'm a person who organizes my space to set myself up for success." Taking a cold shower is a good way to re-enforce the message "I'm a person who can bear discomfort."




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