As someone who was diagnosed with Aspergers, and someone that greatly dislikes annoying, confusing, and overly excited people that rely almost entirely on certain forms of non-verbal social cues to communicate (to the point I think they're just as broken as I am, just in the exact opposite way; they seemingly lack the ability to use words and logic to convey ideas, preferring emotions and impulsivity to interact with the world and others)...
I actually understand the hermit to some extent. I do believe that he could easily suffer from something the DSM V considers on the spectrum. It is unfortunate that society's supports fell through for him.
I sent the article to my oldest son because it made me think of him. He replied with: I was sort of thinking about how, if I'd had a different life, I could see myself doing much the same. Maybe a bit more planned. Maybe not.
I was always okay with him being him and did not try to force him to be more social. I helped him figure out how to interact with society on his terms.
For example, he likes going to stores with self-checkout so he doesn't have to deal with a cashier. Self-checkout exists and many people use them for many reasons. One of his big motivators is that dealing with people is hard, even for just the brief interaction of paying for his purchase.
> One of his big motivators is that dealing with people is hard, even for just the brief interaction of paying for his purchase.
this is a fine line though. If you have some level of social anxiety, avoiding social contact is about the worst you can do for it. It's allowing the fear to control you. A better solution is to work your way through the social anxeity, learning organic ways to "grease the gears" and make situations pleasant to both parties.
I had to learn this in my late teens/early 20s. I was withdrawing more and more, stone-faced all the time in public places such as the grocery store. I'd park behind the store just so I didn't have the hassle of interactions in the parking lot. That's letting anxiety reign over you. Cognitive distortions [1] can send you on a downward trajectory where avoidance is the norm and you to go greater and more extreme lengths to mitigate the "problem". I learned that a smile, saying "hi, how are you?" or "excuse me" seem to make most interactions at least 50 "percent" less uncomfortable compared to unemotional silence, which I've seen in psychology books as a sign of hostility.
Now, if you are autistic and have something inhibiting your ability to understand social cues, then "just facing it" wont work, but even people on the spectrum can learn to improve their situation through a skilled therapist.
I remember clearly the day when I decided the work of pushing my items through the shitty self-checkout scanner (the clerk's scanner is way better) and bagging my own stuff was a waste of time vs saying four or five pre-rehearsed words and letting the nice clerk do it for me.
You are projecting your issues onto someone you know nothing about. I have seen cashiers react as if they want to strip search him because he is trying to pay for a pizza. Other people react incredibly negatively to him in ways that are seriously problematic. This is a completely different situation from what you describe. His desire to avoid it when possible is in no way neurotic nor dysfunctional.
Additionally, letting him avoid it part of the time makes it easier for him to cope effectively the rest of the time. You can think of it as him having a limited people skills budget and not insisting he piss it away unnecessarily just because other people with a bigger budget don't find it to be a hardship to pay such things. For him, it amounts to being nickeled and dimed to death.
Can you explain why you seem to be reading everything I say in the worst possible light? It comes across like you are intentionally trying to bust my chops, not understand my point.
I don't think I'm reading this negatively. I'm genuinely curious as to what sort of reaction would make you think they wanted to strip search your son. The only image that comes to my mind when I think of someone wanting to strip search someone involves a cop, a latex glove snapping on the wrist and a menacing look and that seems so the opposite of every experience in a pizza place I've ever had.
You are taking my remarks a bit too literally. And your experience in a pizza place and my son's experience are entirely different things. Coaching him on what to say does not solve it.
We have done a lot of reading and we believe he lacks prosody and lacks the ability to tone match. This is something other people are not consciously aware is socially important, but he routinely gets that reaction that is summed up by the phrase "I don't like your tone."
In contrast, I appear to habitually tone match without trying. This gets me read as incredibly deferential, which has a different social downside. So, one thing that does work is he and I frequently shop together, everyone knows I am his mother and people generally find me likeable. They eventually conclude "He's a nice, quiet young man." and quit having an issue with him being him.
I'm responding to your comment based on the information you provided. You should direct him over to /r/socialskills. If he's neither "neurotic nor dysfunctional" then he just needs to polish his social skills.
You do not know my son at all. His situation does not begin to get summed up in a few paragraphs on a forum.
This right here is the arrogance I am talking about. You think you know better than I do what my nearly 30 year old son needs. Now why on earth would you think that? That is incredibly contemptuous.
> annoying, confusing, and overly excited people that rely almost entirely on certain forms of non-verbal social cues to communicate (to the point I think they're just as broken as I am, just in the exact opposite way; they seemingly lack the ability to use words and logic to convey ideas, preferring emotions and impulsivity to interact with the world and others)...
I have no idea at all how you can draw the conclusion that I am glorifying this. Quite the opposite. This pathological outcome is partly due to the fact that "normal" people are such assholes to anyone who doesn't readily fit into their social expectations. People who supposedly have all kinds of social skills often merely use them to torture people who don't have them instead of using their savvy to bridge the gap.
>If he were growing up today, they would likely give him some diagnosis on the Autism Spectrum or some related diagnosis and try to give him meds and force him to somehow fit in.
That sounds like you're saying that being able to fit in is a bad thing when talking about a guy who lived in the wilderness alone stealing from people for 25 years as a better alternative.
I still have no idea how you are getting that interpretation. The only thing it suggests is that forcing people to "fit in" instead of helping them figure out how to happily be themselves actively causes problems. I can't see your interpretation even if I squint hard and try to read it that way.
Shaving a metaphorical square peg rarely gets you a round one that works beautifully. Usually, it just gets you a misshapen, mutilated thing that is neither square nor round.
>If he were growing up today, they would likely give him some diagnosis on the Autism Spectrum or some related diagnosis and try to give him meds and force him to somehow fit in.
The way you've written this makes is sound like you're saying that current medicine and techniques to help autistic people are bad(give him meds and force him to somehow fit in) and that his solution of running off into the forest to avoid all human contact and surviving off theft is a better solution. If that isn't what you mean then you've worded your point badly.
>For as long as humans have existed, there have been those that don't connect well socially. We may label them and pontificate and categorize, but this has always been true and is not likely to change
Ok but for as long as humans have existed they've needed societies to help them survive. The article even makes that point with regards to historical hermits needing to sell stuff to buy food. There is a reason exile was one of the harshest punishments available in a lot of historic cultures.
>Perhaps we should get over our arrogant idea of normal.
But participating in society IS normal. No arrogance needed. That doesn't mean that people who have difficulty with it are bad but it does mean they aren't normal.
>The way you've written this makes is sound like you're saying that current medicine and techniques to help autistic people are bad(give him meds and force him to somehow fit in) and that his solution of running off into the forest to avoid all human contact and surviving off theft is a better solution. If that isn't what you mean then you've worded your point badly.
IMO Mz was a bit terse and you jumped to conclusions. It's true that it would not be uncommon for someone to write what she wrote and mean it how you took it, but it's not the simplest interpretation.
As someone who was diagnosed with Aspergers, and someone that greatly dislikes annoying, confusing, and overly excited people that rely almost entirely on certain forms of non-verbal social cues to communicate (to the point I think they're just as broken as I am, just in the exact opposite way; they seemingly lack the ability to use words and logic to convey ideas, preferring emotions and impulsivity to interact with the world and others)...
I actually understand the hermit to some extent. I do believe that he could easily suffer from something the DSM V considers on the spectrum. It is unfortunate that society's supports fell through for him.