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I find this statement horrific.

You would condemn the women of the world, the poorest of the poor to backbreaking work because you won't identify with reality?

Even amongst the ultra rich, aka you (given you are on HN, most likely), women do more house work.

Yet you expect people who dedicate their lives to the ultra poor and get things done to be careful of your sensibilities?



And I, in turn, find your outrage misplaced. I am certainly in no position to condemn anyone to anything. Most women in most of the world are in a social situation that forces them to be domestic slaves. So what's the solution to that? To automate their domestic slavery, by buying them washing machines?

Well duh, of course not. The solution is to change their societies so that they don't have to be the ones who do all the bloody washing. Until then, selling them washing machines is primarily of benefit to the people who sell them the washing machines.


When I read statements like this, I realise how detached many people are from the African reality.

I'm a Ghanaian/German and my wife is a house wife. Indeed, I go to work while she stays at home to clean, cook and take care of the kids.

The point is, it's her choice to do so. Because she doesn't work, we can't afford to get help. And she prefers to take care of her kids herself at this young age (oldest is 4).

Does that mean we need to change so I leave work and come help her with the washing?

Well, I bought her a washing machine due to the sheer volume of laundry my kids generate in a day so she doesn't have to, on top of her other chores spend her whole time washing.

Now she has more time to study as she's done with chores sooner and is less tired after doing them.

The split of roles is mostly a necessary evil in our part of the world. Mothers are some better suited to taking care of their children than fathers are. Slice it whatever way you want, it's a fact of nature.

Our realities are different, sometimes I wish people would understand that.


I don't know what nature has to do with anything- is it any different for people in Africa, than in the UK, where I live? Over here men are expected to help with all the house chores - dishes, cleaning up, washing, you name it. And that includes taking care of the children. For instance, it's very common to see lone dads out with their toddlers in a pram, or a sling around their neck.

>> The split of roles is mostly a necessary evil in our part of the world.

Yeah, sorry but I don't believe that. If you want to say that there's a great deal of social reform that's needed before women and men have the same opportunitites in life, and there's no reason to "split roles" so that women stay at home and do the washing and men go to work, then fine. But that it's "necessary" anywhere, I don't accept that. It's no more necessary in Ghana, than it is in the UK.

And btw, I'm an immigrant to the UK. I'm originally from Greece which is a very traditional country, so I'm very familiar with the alleged social necessity of keeping women home with their washing machines. It doesn't make sense in Greece, it doesn't make sense in the UK, and I'm pretty sure it's just an excuse in Ghana also.


You don't have to believe it for it to be true.

> I'm very familiar with the alleged social necessity of keeping women home with their washing machines.

I think you missed the point where I mentioned it was her choice to stay at home and take care of the kids.

No where did I try to advance an argument to keep women at home with their washing, rather, I tried to explain that for most people, they have no choice, and this lack of choice doesn't mean they should continue to do it manually.

You speak about it being an excuse. Again, basing this on your reality. One that has only experienced western culture and life styles.

In a region where much of the population is poor, and the only jobs available to them are hard and laborious with long hours, you have no option but to leave that kind of work to the men.

So yes, it is indeed a necessity to many of these people to split their roles and not just an excuse to lord it over the women as you try to make it sound. The reason this is difficult to end is due to the difficulty in ending the underlying cause itself, mostly poverty.


I agree with your basic sentiment, that it's wrong that we so often assume that housework is women's work, and that it would be better if that gender expectation were not taken as a fundamental given.

I disagree with the view that the washing machine, and other domestic labor-saving devices, haven't been deeply beneficial for hundreds of millions of women, even though it is still a mistake that we still see doing the laundry as a job for women. I disagree because changing cultures is really hard and really slow, while changing technology is, by comparison, incredibly easy and fast. And it is absolutely better to make easy, fast changes, whenever that is possible, than to sneer at them because they do not solve the underlying problem. They still solve some part of the problem. Sometimes to a significant degree. That matters: billions of hours of trivial human labor have been saved, many of them going instead to the leisure, study, and thought necessary to move people toward the real solution.


> that it's wrong that we so often assume that housework is women's work

Have you seen the work men do in poor countries?

Do you really expect women to be doing this work and the man stays at home doing house work?

I do see women carrying huge bags of concrete, masonry, pulling carts along occasionally.

And I find it heart breaking. It's body ruining as a man, for women to be doing it is an even lower level of poverty that they are at.

There is a lot of 'let them eat cake' going on here.


Exactly the same argument I advanced to @YeGoblynQueenne.

Where there's no option, you have to split the roles.

And where you split the roles, you can't make one party burdened unnecessarily.


No, I think what's going on here is "let them use washing machines".

Like- Problem: women are treated as domestic slaves. Solution: get them domestic appliances.

Well that's just ridiculous.


> Until then, selling them washing machines is primarily of benefit to the people who sell them the washing machines

Have you ever done all your laundry by hand? I have, and it's a MASSIVE waste of time. As long as someone in the family has to do it manually (along with cooking with fire, carrying water, sweeping, etc), it will keep someone in the home to do all that work.

You should definitely actually watch the video. It's only 10 minutes.


>> Have you ever done all your laundry by hand? I have, and it's a MASSIVE waste of time.

Yes, I have. Why is it the women that have to do it- by hand, or otherwise?




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