Hacker News new | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit login
Amazon Doesn’t Consider the Race of Its Customers. Should It? (bloomberg.com)
17 points by 1wheel on April 21, 2016 | hide | past | favorite | 5 comments



Pretty sensationalist article. The important parts are buried about halfway through:

> Amazon, he says, has a “radical sensitivity” to any suggestion that neighborhoods are being singled out by race. “Demographics play no role in it. Zero.”

> Amazon says its plan is to focus its same-day service on ZIP codes where there’s a high concentration of Prime members

The areas Amazon does same-day delivery are likely just driven by pure numbers and algorithms -- larger order counts/sums will result in a higher chance of same-day delivery to a certain area and low numbers for an area means it will get it later.


This may be correlation, but their own data doesn't look like causation.

For example, they talk about the "hole" in Boston with blacks carved out.

They don't talk about the hole in Dallas with whites carved out. In Dallas, compare the depiction of the hole on left vs. right. On the right they delete the whites (green dots) so it looks like nobody's in the hole. On the left, the hole is almost solid green, clearly invalidating the thesis.

They interview blacks in the Boston hole, but not whites in the Dallas hole, and nobody in L.A. where a higher % of blacks are served by same day Prime than whites.

I'm comfortable with a combination of two straightforward factors: where are Prime subscribers, and, where are the warehouses and package delivery hubs?

Prime and FedEx both likely have correlation to % of folks happy to pay $23 for a letter today vs $0.50 next week, and where you can put a warehouse and shipping hub to best logistically serve those folks, with Prime having a bias towards residential density and FedEx a bias towards commercial.


Except the "hole" in Dallas is not Dallas. It's Highland Park and University Park, Texas, two completely separately governed areas from the City of Dallas. But keep that tin foil hat handy.


There's two things the article doesn't consider enough which might be important:

1. Road access

2. Crime

The first is a lesser concern but does affect deliveries. An area with easy access to highways and truck-worthy roads is easier to do economical deliveries in. Some areas have roads that can't take trucks due to clearance, quality of road itself, weight limits on wooden bridges, stupid GPS routes, and so on. Fixing that stuff up helps.

The second, crime, is a major concern. This article starts being less shocking when you replace "mostly black or latino" with "high chance of being robbed, raped, or murdered." I cant speak to all their examples but many jump right out. The blacks I know from Chicago say the South-side is "the hood all over it." All of them have said that. Then the Bronx shows up of course. Also parts of Atlanta where crime is highest and a few thugs I had the displeasure of meeting. Kicked their ass back to Georgia. All areas where a company vehicle and/or driver is likely to get robbed with the driver maybe being straight-up murdered. And for almost no money since it's low-income areas.

That might factor into their analysis. Wisely so as almost nobody in the murder capital I live in wants to deliver to the hood even though plenty do (eg Dominos pizza or Jimmy Johns) because they need a job. A number of those report the occasional gun to their head to get a free product with manager blacklisting that house. Stories like that go around business to business, driver to driver. A truck stolen for $80,000 losses does too. Compare it to the white neighborhoods where people just don't get robbed at gunpoint delivering a pizza. Rarely if ever.

It's perfectly reasonable to refuse to deliver to high-crime areas until they get their shit under control. Neighborhoods need to start standing up for their own and ejecting people like that. Enough of that happening will let the companies differentiate more between safe and unsafe neighborhoods that are low-income. Then, companies might come back to them. Meanwhile, companies reduce their losses greatly by not showing up.

Note: I've turned down multiple, high-paying jobs because I'd have to waste too much money on security or insurance. Because they were in the hood. And, yes, there's articles about those same locations just like this talking about how avoidance happens because they're black or Latino. No, it's because we'd rather not die, buy another smartphone, or go to the DMV again cuz assholes take the license. Stuff that doesn't happen in poor, mostly-white parts of my area. They just steal gas, burglarize empty houses, sell weed/meth, and so on. Stuff that won't kill me outside the occasional thug solo or pair. 2nd Amendment works fine for that as it's not 15-20 person gang all at once like in the hoods.


Quick! To the Betteridge-mobile!




Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: