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It sounds to me like you've decided that some species matter more than others based on your own arbitrary perceptions rather than rational or empirical reasoning. It's okay to kill a cow but not a dolphin. Why? Is that just because you've taken your own beliefs as ground truth and reasoned your way from there?

Consciousness is poorly defined, so I don't know exactly what you're getting at there, but one definition is sentience. At any rate, I believe it's fair to say that a sentient being can be described as conscious due to their ability to feel and subjectively process experiences.

Why does consciousness matter if you believe they are sentient? Are you perhaps conflating intelligence with consciousness? Do you believe that it matters more when an intelligent animal suffers than it does when a less intelligent animal suffers? Why? Do they not both suffer? Can the same be said for people with low IQs? Their suffering matters less than mine?

How do you reconcile that slaughterhouse conditions are torturous, even the ones that "ethical farmers" use? That we have video footage that indicate the animals know they are going to die and evidence to suggest the entire process is distressing and painful? That the process by which they are "humanely" anaesthetized/killed (e.g., bolt gun) is still by far not the most humane way to kill animals?

How about the fact we have every reason to believe pigs are incredibly intelligent despite the way we treat them (I'm talking Chimpanzee-level intelligence here — http://animalstudiesrepository.org/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?artic...)? What is this "thing" you believe separates them from dolphins?

Are you sure you are not simply working off of your own unchallenged beliefs that you were raised with by your parents and taking those as ground truth?



It sounds like you've decided I'm wrong, and now you're trying to tell me what mistake I've made, without attempting to understand what I actually believe or why I believe it. AKA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulverism

As such, I'm going to reply, but then I'm done. You're irritating, and I'm not interested in having a prolonged discussion with you.

I'm not conflating consciousness with the ability to suffer, or with intelligence. I don't know exactly what it is. But far as I understand, humans and dolphins and some other species seem to be aware of their own existence, in a way that cows aren't. (The mirror test is one tool we use to try to judge this.) Humans and dolphins are capable of wanting not to die, in a way that cows aren't. That's what makes it wrong to kill humans and dolphins. Meanwhile, humans and dolphins and cows are capable of suffering, in a way that rocks and (I assume) mosquitos aren't. That's what makes it wrong to torture a human or dolphin or cow, and impossible to torture a rock or mosquito.

> How do you reconcile that slaughterhouse conditions are torturous

Reconcile with what? I specifically said it's wrong to torture a cow. I don't like slaughterhouses. I'm mostly vegetarian.

I didn't say anything about pigs, because I don't know where I'd place them. My understanding is that they seem to be somewhere between cows and dolphins, probably closer to cows.


The right answer is that dolphins are important because they are superpredators at the top of the trophic chain, and its effect over the other species is very relevant. Both dolphins and sharks are of similar importance.




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