The 20,000x speedup claim doesn't pass a basic sanity check.
The theoretical improvement of DMMSY over Dijkstra is O(log^{2/3} n) vs O(log n). For n = 1M, that's a ratio of ~2.7x. To get even a 10x improvement from asymptotics alone, you'd need n ≈ 2^{1000}, far beyond any graph that fits in memory (or in the observable universe, for that matter). The ~800ns figure for 1M nodes also seems physically implausible. Likely the benchmark is comparing an optimized hot path against a naive Dijkstra, or measuring something other than what it claims.
If you look carefully at the graph on the readme page, you'd see it compares Dijkstra's algorithm, a "DMMSY(res)", and a "DMMSY(opt)".
Presumably the claimed contribution was the optimized version, but note that whatever DMMSY(res) is, it should still be O(m log^{2/3} n) or whatever DMMSY's time complexity is supposed to be.
But DMMSY(res)'s run times follow Dijkstra closely in the graph.
The only conclusion is that something is off -- either the author measured the wrong thing, or he was able to optimize the implementation of the algorithm to the extent that the optimizations over-powers any asymptotic gains. Or the implementation is wrong.
At any rate, as you mentioned, the difference between `m log n` and `m log^{2/3} n` is insignificant at n=1M (and TBH won't be significant at any practical n). If the results and the implementation are both correct, it just means the author simply found a way to reduce the constant time factor of the implementation.
Note that we search graphs that don’t fit in memory all the time. Eg. Looking ahead at chess moves. We just calculate the graph on the fly. It’s really not that out of line to search down 1000 branching binary decisions (in chess this is only a few moves ahead).
A possible explanation for the difference is that the Dijkstra impl being tested is doing multiple heap allocations at every step, which doesn't seem like a fair comparison.
Secondarily I believe in the case of the "opt" version, the compiler might be optimising out the entire algorithm because it has no observable side-effects.
if they're so bad they're good ... they're actually just good. probably because they capture something increasingly rare: the human and personal touch of an artist who's not straight jacketed by "safe mode" marketing, editorial norms, analytics, blah blah blah
Yes, they're amazingly good given they didn't have copies of the original posters, Internet access to get reference images, or even VCRs at home to play the movies themselves.
The clickbait title is about "Africa" and "bad", but it's specifically about Ghana and awesome.
Looks to be a demo of the repo, the visualisation along with “Telefon Tel Aviv” isn’t the product - in that light it probably isn’t credited due to a minor oversight
1) It obviously varies w/ each dev's situation, but I think your sense of the value prop is a fair default one w/o context. In my case, there were four reasons: 1) having a partner to help with (to me) "the unknown unknowns" (i'm only a dev and a novice designer, literally anything else would be my first time doing it, so i figured having an experienced partner there would be wise) 2) the advance was nice just from a "bird in the hand" mindset 3) they helped me connect with a really good artist (critical to the project's success imho) 4) having a big name behind you can't hurt, and bigger publishers do have more relationships with the ecosystem (streamers, platforms, etc) to help your game succeed.
2) EA is appropriate for certain kinds of games. But I knew exactly what Ballionaire was going to be, and felt it could be achieved in a year. I knew that this mechanical space was going to be rapidly saturated, once all the games inspired by LBAL (including Balatro!) started appearing. So I was determined to get the game out before that happened, which set a certain scope and pace, obviating EA.
3) The trailers were a really good promotional tool, very effective. But most of the paid promotion was sponsored streams, not traditional "marketing" (ads). I think the game has a natural tendency for organic spread, due to its fun/simple premise, watchability/streamability, low price point, and so on. It's just an easy game to see, and say "ooh, I wanna try!" because it's instantly understood how to play, and IMHO is very inviting aesthetically.
My takeaway: Make sure your hook is glowingly radioactively good. Don't overbalance. Leave in some jank. Scope down and finish quickly. And avoid tropes. Stand out. (Of course this only works for a certain kind of game!)
"Make sure your hook is glowingly radioactively good. Don't overbalance. Leave in some jank. Scope down and finish quickly. And avoid tropes. Stand out."
Sounds like outstanding advice. I hope we can follow in your footsteps! (and thanks for the kind and comprehensive answer)
How far were you into building the game before you began to approach publishers? YC speaks frequently about investing in the founders, and not the idea---but then dives right into well you need to have revenue and/or users and it's a bit of a double-standard---so I'm curious what stage you were at when you started talking to publishers and what state your product was in when you finally signed a deal.
I'm curious about this as well so I took a look at the publisher's site and found some info: https://rawfury.com/talk/ under "Game Pitches". Would still like to hear from OP on any specifics though.
RE: "Make sure your hook is glowingly radioactively good. Don't overbalance. Leave in some jank. Scope down and finish quickly. And avoid tropes. Stand out."
For games with a limited run time is it possible to balance this against Steam's 2 hour return policy? Feel like we're now trapped in a position where you can make short little proof of concepts on itch but when it comes to trying to make something professional you have to bloat it in a way to minimise people abusing that.
This is very much personal opinion but if you can blast through all of a games content within 2 hours of purchase it wasn't finished / big enough to justify a financial transaction in the first place.
Two hours is about movie or novella worth of content. Both are priced at about the same rate. Not all games have to have 10s or 100s of hours of content. Today, I expect a big(ger) part of gamers are like me: older people who like games, but can only game a few hours a week. Last non-4X game I fully played was CoD2. That was 2005.
Honestly, that could go both ways. Like I'll happily pay cost-of-small-game to watch a movie that will be over in two hours, and there's a whole category now of single-sitting games like Journey, Minit, A Short Hike, etc, that are easily able to be completed in that timeframe but are obviously worth their modest purchase price.
To some of us adult gamers with actual lives and commitments, having something that can be completed in 1-4 sittings is a huge boon, like okay this is a thing I can do without abandoning my family for the next two weeks.
Were you trying to make short games or offer some kind of abridging service?
Because I've wondered about that too. Like, right now there's a pretty big dichotomy between "purchase and play a game myself" and "watch someone else play it on youtube/twitch". But it would be interesting if there was a market for a kind of interactive guided tour, like for $10 let me play the best 4-6 hours of AC:Odyssey, and that's delivered as a mod that just trims all the fat, levels me up quickly enough to hustle through the main story beats and see the good boss encounters and action set pieces.
(Ubisoft themselves sort of do this with their paid XP boosters, but that doesn't actually cut content, it just lets you skip a few hours of grinding over what is otherwise still a 40hr+ experience for most people)
Perhaps I'm an outlier. I expect to pay for my personal gaming experience. But if there's some necessary part of gameplay I don't like, that's negative experience that makes the game worse for me, reducing the value of the game to me. To skip that gameplay seems like something that shouldn't cost me anything, or even get me a discount because I'm not getting some of the experience I paid for. Like say if a side dish is so bad I send it back at a restaurant. I neither expect to pay for that nor a premium for someone else to eat it for me!
So I'm not willing to pay a premium for such a thing. I don't see why the game with the bad part missing should be worth more than with the bad part present. Rather, the inverse! I'll more likely skip the game entirely and find a different one that doesn't have such mandatory grinding.
As I say maybe that's an outlying opinion since making money from this kind of thing apparently works. It it helps, I'm in the adult with family demographic and my time (rather than game purchase levels of money) is what is at a premium.
I've never bought an XP booster myself, and I feel some of the same conflict. Although I can obviously afford it, I don't think I could stomach doing this for new releases. So at most it would be something where I'd be interested after 2-3 years when all the patches are in, bugs are fixed, and review consensus has settled.
So rather than pay US$70 today for a buggy, grindy new release experience, I pay $20 in two years for the base game + $10 for the "player's digest" mod.
I expect even then it would be a tough sell, particularly having to be on PC— a lot of the market for this kind of thing would more casual console/mobile/streaming players.
I love this idea; I can no longer justify 40-100 hour playthroughs. Lots of people rave about Elden Ring but the time investment is just really offputting. I'd buy a version of it at half the price and one quarter of the playtime.
That said, I'd imagine a fair chunk of the impact of major set pieces and end bosses is that you've spent many hours to get to that point. An abridged version would have to leave bough in to allow emotional investment in the story. This is still possible.
Gamers Digest? (For those of you who remember Reader's Digest).
I was making short games. Specifically I was trying to make games that packed the same density of concentrated entertainment as other media.
The abridgement thing sounds like a smart approach, but ultimately I've gotten more enjoyment from shorter games that don't pack the fat in to begin with.
My PM perspective on this is that games are dominating the media market primarily because they are a good value proposition in our tightening economy. I think a good thing to shoot for is around 2 hours of game play per dollar spent, e.g. make it so that it's an absolute no-brainer for a customer to buy your game vs going to a movie. Replayability is a major aspect of this, look at how many hours people spent on LBAL and Vampire Survivors despite both having relatively simple mechanics.
A big part of the issue is that a lot of people do not consider it abuse. The value of games is so heavily burned into a lot of people's minds as being a dollars to hours ratio and Steam having this blanket policy could be perceived to be endorsing that perspective.
I crunched myself to get the game out by the end of 2024 before the saturation I knew was coming took place. I think the simple premise, watchability, humor, and presentation of the game helped it stand out.
My advice: Have a super solid hook, that's marketing. Everything else is promotion and is far less effective.
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