For the several decades I've been alive and reading multiple takes on history slavery has always featured as one of the major three causes of the US Civil War for the majority of historians of note.
precisely, mathematically identical to infinite precision .. "yes".
Meanwhile, in the real world we live in it's essentially physically impossible to stage two seperate systems to be identical to such a degree AND it's an important result that some systems, some very simple systems, will have quite different outcomes without that precise degree of impossibly infinitely detailed identical conditions.
See: Lorenz's Butterfly and Smale's Horseshoe Map.
Of course. But that's not relevant to the point I was responding to suggesting that LLMs may lack consciousness because they're deterministic. Chaos wasn't the argument (though that would be a much more interesting one, cf "edge of chaos" literature).
William Goodge smashes record after running across Australia in 35 days
British athlete four days quicker than previous record holder who completed 3,800km feat in 39 days
Spurred on by his mother’s battle with cancer, and with his father by his side, William Goodge crossed the finish line in Sydney just after 4pm on Monday.
It brought an end to 35 days of pounding the pavement, striding the equivalent of two-and-a-half marathons a day.
"His odiousness" was less a personal jihad to see Rushdie killed and more the end result of ill considered comments about what different systems of law state after being drawn in and questioned on the contentious issue live.
I have no feelings about him either way. I've read thru Islam's statements and gotten the best context I can. The adjective I would apply to all of it is hapless.
More than anything, Islam seems ill equipped to handle these matters. And to be fair, he indicated he is not the guy to come to for this topic.
I would bolster that to say that if someone truly wanted a substantive, educated opinion about fatwa, they would have gone to someone capable of giving them that.
The context for one of the two(?) TV statements on air was Geoffrey Robertson's Hypotheticals.
Great TV factual, devilish, host led open panel discussion about hair trigger dilemmas of real life and law staged by an international QC (now KC) and human rights lawyer.
It was literally about exploring the gap between written law, law as practicied, morals and ethics, and circumstances that would test anyone.
Cat Stevens / Yusuf Islam was a typical guest .. an everyman of no particular deep study into such things, just one of many on the Clapham omnibus.
Taking anything said by anyone on that particular show, sans context, as a literal statement of their core personal belief is tenuous at best.
Nonsense. Yusuf Islam is a Sunni Muslim and the fatwa wass issued by Ayatollah Khomeini, a Shia cleric. So there was no reason for him to recognize the fatwa as legitimate, and he literally said "He must be killed. The Qur'an makes it clear – if someone defames the prophet, then he must die."
There is no ambiguity here, Yusuf Islam called for Salman Rushdie's killing over a book that a Shia cleric claimed insulted the prophet. A book I might add that neither of them ever read. Later that year he again said Rushdie should be killed in a different context.
Only nonsense from a hard core fundementalist PoV really.
Any notion why you have such a PoV?
In the TV context it was clearly a rhetorical / hypothetical statement .. one of the two utterances was literally on a show titled "Hypotheticals" .. which I guess you watched along with reading the Qur'an, numerous commentaries, reading Rushdie's book, etc.
according to wikipedia "it was just a joke bro" lol, at the time during the show, did anybody laugh? If its the video I just watched, nobody was laughing.
In a statement in the FAQ section of one of his websites, Islam asserted
that while he regretted the comments, he was joking and that the show was
improperly edited.[94]
I just don't see how the video I watched could have been editted in such a way that would misconstrue the words I just saw mouthed by this guy.
> I just don't see how the video I watched could have been editted ..
The video you linked has been edited twice .. once from raw live footage in order to create the TV panel show that went to air, and again a second time to extract and join short specific sections from the TV show to create the segment you linked .. with additional voice over added.
The original TV footage appears to have been sourced from Geoffrey Robertson's Hypotheticals.
The very name "Hypotheticals" might indicate to you how you the second round of editing has led you astray.
The segment you linked has removed all context .. there is nothing of Geoffrey Robertson setting up a situation and instructing panel members "to imagine they are ...".
All you have there is a tight segment lacking the larger context with an added voice over claiming that this is Islam speaking from his heart as himself, nothing about being asked to play himself as a more fundemental true believer.
I have already read the "Hypotheticals". Is he saying God is merely a "Hypothetical"? Is that even allowed with Islam, or was he just cosplaying the Islam part at the time? hehe I liked steve martins take on that egyptian thing, so as a "hypothetical" or as a "joke" yeah I dunno man, those words he mouthed just don't seem to go away.
another edit, steve martin's "king tut", now thats cosplay. Maybe whatever his name was trying to be serious as hypothetically speaking while simultaneously joking about terminating somebody's metabolism in a non consensual manner.
last edit:
I checked on whether cosplay is haram, it is not according to "gemini", can any humans verify this? I'd hate to get killed because I listened exclusively to "gemini" because these AI's are "hallucinators" or whatever tech bro's call it nowadays haha so indeed he could cosplay, be actual Muslim, be joking and hypothetical all at the same time so maybe you're right.
Which "he"? Islam|Stevens or Robertson .. in either case, no, God being Hypothetical was not a central thesis of the show although it's likely something that was bantered about somewhere in the course of at least one of those scenarios.
Maybe look through the transcripts for some mention of any God(s).
> hehe I liked steve martins take on that egyptian thing
I confess I'm unsure as to how Steve Martin (Banjo playing comedian slash actor Martin?) ties into this .. but yes, Hypothetical is a partially scripted staged drama that explored tricky situations, Trolley Problems, and difficult judgements that creep up on people at the edges of law and morality.
The host literally assigned real people "personas" that matched some aspects of that persons real life experience and then asked them to react as their persona through a series of increasingly conflicting and escalating events of the sort that often end up in court.
What ever Cat Stevens is doing there in the show he is absolutely not independantly taking the stage on his own to declare a Fatwa on Rushdie and to call on all Muslims to hunt him down and punish him .. which was the original up thread claim about his behaviour.
so ok I get all of what your saying except what you're leaving out, what was the hypothesis?
Honestly, I doubt either of us will have our minds changed but I do like the guys own explanation
"In response, Yusuf Islam said that some of his comments were "stupid and offensive jokes" made in "bad taste," while others were merely giving his interpretation of Islamic law but not advocating any action."
Honestly, that really is probably the closest I'll get to a satisfying explanation, ie., I came into this thread thinking "Yusuf" done goofed and I'm pretty sure I'm going to leave the thread with an unchanged opinion.
the steve martin bit is how to do a proper cosplay. nobody is taking steve martin out of context lol
> so ok I get all of what your saying except what you're leaving out, what was the hypothesis?
These shows by Robertson had no single scenario, each started with (say) news that people in a cafe had been taken hostage by a unknown assailant .. and built from there. First one guest representing law and order might be asked what their response would be, then they are informed that demands have been made to release convicted terrorists (say). This might build and involve a diplomat, a former singer in the public eye pressed for comment, etc.
I haven't said as I literally last watched the one in question some forty years ago.
Perhaps you can fill us all in given, as you said above, you've read the transcripts and hopefully still have a copy you can look up.
> the steve martin bit is how to do a proper cosplay
To be fair "can this ship clear this bridge given it's height, the time of day, the general broad area tidal conditions and the specific hyper local variations" is fundemental but far from basic.
It also raises a question as to whether the fault lies with the ship crew or with a local pilot who had local control of the ship.
On the videos the ship is drifting backwards, from wind and/or currents (are currents the East River dominated by tides?). I don't think that they ever intended to clear the bridge. The fundamental they missed was keeping their maneuvering engine up and running (or calling in some tugs).
If you watch the video you can see tugs moving the boat. Current speculation is that the tugs/harbor captain messed up and the ship got away from them in the tide and drifted backwards into the bridge.
Yes, the East river and the Hudson are both tidal estuaries. The tide has a big effect on water flow direction. I'm an in-experienced sailor but I was surprised they left with the water flowing against them.
My bad for getting the full details .. I came to this story via a chain of bridge clearance fail stories and jumped to the assumption this was another intended passage clearance mistake.
There are some knuckle chewing engineering videos of planned water transits of "big loads" timed happen for a still water king low tide .. fast work with tiny clearances and major downsides on failure.
It is not a case of not knowing that the bridge is too low. It is a case of not being able to avoid it and being pushed into it by winds and waves. Reportedly something went wrong with their engine.
> but the next thing I ask is "how do you find new music".
> expert curation. Someone who spends their whole life studying these things
For a long time I followed the Peel sessions (1967 - 2004) which was BBC DJ / Commonwealth new music and industry audience sized level of shared curation experience.
That was richer in information and breadth and more niche an experience than the larger broader scale appeal of the UK's Top of the Pops, Australia's Countdown, the USofA's later MTV curated new music offerings.
Curated or not, now or in the 1960's, 70's, later there is and has always been a sizable amount of industry capture and strong influence in bringing artist's to audiences / markets.
If alternative programming exercise counts as a domain, then yes ..
along with Turing Tape machine coding, corewars, that one from Knuth ..
outside of that domain of interest, not so much.
But that is one domain of interest.
It's also true that real world industrial scale dam control isn't a killer application domain for Brainf*ck .. but FGS, have you seen many SCADA implementations?
WordPress seems advanced for a government body whose head of health actively promotes for himself and his grandchildren swimming downstream from sewerage to boost the immune system.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origins_of_the_American_Civil_...
For the several decades I've been alive and reading multiple takes on history slavery has always featured as one of the major three causes of the US Civil War for the majority of historians of note.
reply