I really never enjoy anecdote-experiments, there always seems to be too little information to conclude anything.
Under the takeaways after two weeks, he mentions that it was easier for him to fall asleep and wake up. But there is no mention on the number of hours pre/post the experiment and no mention on what times he would drink coffee. If he stayed awake 18 hours when he drank coffee and only 16 hours when he didn't, it would make sense he felt more awake in the morning.
I guess I am just annoyed at any of the claimed health benefits through a small anecdote.
I had the same thought. Correlation certainly doesn't equal causation, and there's really not enough context or info in the post to say it's one or the other. Anecdotal at best.
So the op has stopped drinking coffee and was clear of headaches which he thinks is due to Dandy Blend.
However, he is still getting a considerable fraction of the caffeine he got previously, but now from tea. If he is still taking the active drug, Caffeine, why would he expect any withdrawal?
I have extensively researched pros and cons of giving it up, as well as done experiments on myself (going on and off, changing frequency, changing volume, changing diet around the coffee, etc.), because I am very health conscious, and don't like to feel I am "addicted" to any one thing.
So I hope I am not rationalizing based on my bias, but I see a wide distribution of research results (and anecdotal evidence like this article), so I think it comes down to the individual.
Certainly lifestyle, diet and health, but quite possibly specific to the genotype. We now know that specific mutations, alterations and combinations impact everything from how you digest (or don't) folates, gluten, sugars etc, and the impacts of all those (and more) on serotonin, dopamine and other neurotransmitters.
What is the possibility that we find the same for coffee/caffeine - that it impacts us each differently? Strong, from what I see.
And we know very few things exist as islands or vacuums...what about the myriad of combinations of genetics, environment, diet/nutrition, exercise, sleeping habits, type of work, emotional health, sun exposure, etc?
I know the above is not helpful to those of us looking for simple, binary "answers", but I am not sure those exist for something as powerful as coffee/caffeine.
If HN folks know of more research that disproves (or is at least evidence against) that hypothesis, then I would love to read it.
I just quit coffee last week. Crazy that it's been a week now. I had gotten sick and didn't have any coffee for 2 days. This prompted me to just go all the way and stop it altogether.
One big thing I saw drop was my anxiety. Anxiety has been passed down by my father, and while it's somewhat mild in me, my dad & sister would be having panic attacks at my age. For me, I never went into a straight panic but it can be hard for me to feel safe. I'm a very hard worker with a lot of responsibility, so of course the anxiety has plenty to feed upon ("This isn't done, gotta do this, gotta do that."). Coffee would fuel that kind of behavior as if it were some kind of battle and take it all on. Then when the inevitable crash came, I would have to be looking to supplement it.
Like I said, I'm only a week in but what the OP says about waking up is very true and probably my favorite aspect of quitting coffee. I'll wake up at 6:30 and wanna just get up. When 11 or 12 rolls around, I fall asleep very naturally and wouldn't be able to stay awake even if I wanted to. It's worth a shot for everyone. Unlike the OP, I went completely cold turkey on the caffeine I should mention.
I've had the same experience. I had coffee all through my college years. Had a few scattered experiences with anxiety attacks, but I always attributed them to test stress.
After I started working and the responsibility and the need for creativity grew, I found the anxious episodes start to grow and become quite debilitating. I started to experiment with different parts of my lifestyle: sleep, caffeine, exercise, relaxation.
In the end I narrowed it down to caffeine. The anxiety went away. I felt more awake throughout the day and sleep cycles easier to maintain.
I don't want to claim too much on creativity, but I do feel the ability to relax and let my mind wander has eased the creative process. Instead of the laser focus I'd get when on caffeine my mind could calmly move to less pressing tasks and make those subliminal connections I would have missed if I was too set on an issue.
That said I do miss the taste of coffee. I'll occasionally sip a decaf or latte and feel some of those symptoms return slightly, but knowing its cause has helped a lot.
My wife suffers from anxiety, and yeah, coffee/caffeine is a huge trigger for bouts of anxiety. When she got all of this figured out, her morning coffee was the first thing to go.
We still do the coffee routine in the morning, but for her it's Chai or, in rare cases, decaffinated coffee.
I have quit coffee for the last two years, aside from a very rare (once every four months or so) dessert coffee.
I used to depend on coffee intellectually, I always had to have a cup next to whatever work I was working on, and a pot brewing to back up the cup when I was finished.
Quitting was very difficult, but I have learned to appreciate moving through work slowly, carefully, cautiously, and with regular pacing, that I can meta-regulate with multiple levels of thought and planning. When I used to drink coffee, it just felt like all of my attention was superficially and strictly devoted to whatever work I had to pound out.
I still drink tea, from white tea to oolongs, but this has no where near the effect coffee has on me. Caffeine from coffee makes me feel like someone has thread tied into my eyeballs and into the center of the prefrontal cortex of my brain, and is pulling on it with shaking hands. I assume that is hypertension. It's the worst 'focused' feeling I know of, and I absolutely can not get work done in this state any longer.
I really like being able to think slowly, with occasional minor distractions. It's more reliable, has more coherency, and builds on itself naturally.
I had to quit coffee about 7 months ago, after to developing a moderate case of something called chronic prostatitis. Of all the symptoms and things I have to avoid, coffee is still the thing I miss the most.
It's not just the boost, or the taste and smell, although I do miss all of those. Mostly it's the ritual in the morning, and the social experience of "grabbing a cup of coffee" with someone that leaves a big void in my life. Making my rooibos chai or having cup of herbal tea with someone is just not the same.
This condition may not ever go away, so I've sort of come to terms that coffee may have left my life for good, but before I never would have considered cutting it out completely. I didn't find that it impacted my sleep or productivity as long as I didn't drink it too late in the day.
Anecdotally, even after 7 months without caffeine, I find that I'm still much groggier in the morning than I used to be. My sleep at night hasn't improved.
If your prostatitis is still bothering you, look in to pelvic floor physiotherapy. After my experience I am convinced the chronic kind is a muscle condition (although it may first start as an infection).
I am symptom free a good 95% of the time, no longer have a problem with caffeine or spicy foods, and in the words of Krusty the Clown, I can ride a bike again.
I did recently find a local office that does pelvic floor physiotherapy for men, and I would like to give that a try. I admit I'm skeptical (or perhaps pessimistic is a better word), but I have seen many anecdotes from people who have had some success with physiotherapy (although nobody ever seems to claim to be completely cured).
But thanks, I'm glad to hear that you are doing better.
To be able to have a painfully spicy green curry and a thai iced coffee again one day would be pretty awesome.
I don't think it is something you are completely cured from, but in my case I go many months without any symptoms now. When they do occur the level of pain and discomfort is minimal and I am usually able to get over it myself. I do go for more Physio two to three times a year and probably will until I'm dead, but I don't have any hangups about that or consider it a chore.
My other advice would be to eat well. Lots of fruits and vegetables. Avoid constipation. Also you are probably clenching your abdominal muscles throughout the day (I do it when stressed) and you need to stop doing that. Breathe with your diaphgram and not your abs. Try meditation or yoga (I think yin is the best from a meditative and stretching perspective).
Good luck and I'm positive you can at least improve your symptoms.
I figured you were drinking something like that. The other one has a bit more of a kick to it while still being just spices and herbs and does not contain 'rooibos' which I'm really not a fan of.
Rooibos actually contains something called quercetin which some people have said helps with prostatitis (which I didn't discover until after I'd been drinking it for a while). It adds a little richness and bitterness which I actually like.
Can you explain your personal symptoms, experiences, and how you happened upon discovering your condition? What made you go to the doctor and get diagnosed? I really dislike looking up medical conditions online.
I had the same experience as jtolj. A urinary tract infection that wouldn't go away, even after a couple of months of antibiotics (first one I don't remember, then cipro). Ejaculation would sometimes make it feel better. Sometimes worse. Finally saw a urologist that said he didn't believe it was caused by infection and that I should try pelvic floor Physio therapy. After the first week I felt so much better that I was convinced.
Whenenver I see someone mention it now I try to preach the physio gospel because when I was going through it there were a lot of negative sufferers posting to message boards saying it will never go away, etc.
Also women can suffer from a similar condition - chronic non bacterial urinary tract infections, and most of the pelvic floor physiotherapists are used to dealing with women. Maybe it is more common in women or the option is less known for men, or maybe men are more embarrassed to go see them.
Not sure this is relevant in a coffee thread, but for me it started with urinary tract infection symptoms (frequent, burning urination) which is what brought me to the doctor. I started antibiotics, which improved it slightly but it didn't go away completely. When it returned and got much worse, the doctor referred me to a urologist who diagnosed it as prostatitis. After months of various antibiotics and a half dozen specialist visits at $200/pop I finally gave up on going to the doctor, as he didn't seem any ideas outside of pumping me full of more antibiotics.
As fugoogs mentions, non-bacterial chronic prostatitis isn't well understood and there isn't an effective standard treatment protocol. There are theories ranging from it being caused by nano-bacteria that do not show up in normal tests to it being a muscular tension issue that can be resolved with physical therapy.
Ahh, I mistakenly interpreted your quitting of coffee as coffee being part of the potential cause, rather than a requirement as part of treatment of prostatitis (not that coffee absolutely didn't contribute to it, as you say it's not well understood). I still appreciate learning about your experience dealing with the condition! Thank you.
I'm young and averaged 3-4 cups a day, along with 3-4 large glasses (500ml) of water every day for the last 2-3 years or so. I decided to give up coffee at the start of march, but found it quite difficult. I had none of the "common" symptoms (headaches, tiredness, etc) - but I found it difficult to get over not having a cup in my hand. I swapped it out with decaf coffee (which has more caffeine in it than I thought) and have been much happier with my temperment and general energy levels.
Quitting caffeine had been one of the best things I've ever done with my life. It clears up my frequent headaches, stabilized my sleep patterns and normalized my energy levels through out the day.
Another important effect is that it allows me to use caffeine as medicine. It is very effective on its own and in combination with analgesics.
Quitting was a month of torture, but definitely worth it. Do not try and quit child turkey ; I recommend slow weaning.
No, I will not. It's really not that hard to make a site readable without JavaScript; if they can't be bothered, I can't be bothered to read their stuff.
I've stopped drinking coffee after being addicted to it for about 16 years. First week was terrible, then the withdrawal effects stopped. I pretty much feel the same now as I was after drinking my first cups of coffee. I've got more energy over the day because there are no phases of low caffeine anymore.
Also, not being addicted to it makes things like occasional energy drinks in emergencies really useful. I needed to rescue a lost couchsurfer in the middle of the night - which I wouldn't have been able to do before. A few sips of energy drink made me really awake in order to drive safely. There's so much difference between the the effects on when you are addicted to it and not.
I really like and enjoy good coffee. I buy roasted beans and I like to grind myself since I am the only one that drink coffee in home and beans preserve the taste and smell better.
I can go without coffee for few days, I alternante with "mate" [1]. Mate is awesome because how it taste, it is very different from one yerba to another and is awesome because the way of drinking it. I literally can drink 2L of mate through the morning while working.
I quit drinking coffee around the end of last summer and replaced it with around a litre of green tea mixed into a shake that consists mostly of oat, nut and seed meal, blueberries, honey, and a few spices which replaces my breakfast entirely. This generally keeps me fed until lunch or after depending on my activity level. I don't miss coffee and the most drastic effect has been an almost complete elimination of heart burn. I do still have the occasional cup of coffee but find my taste for it has waned.
Sure, I'd compare the taste to a blueberry muffin but, you know, in liquid form.
1L freshly steeped green tea (2 min, less if you dislike the flavour)
1/2 cup quick oats
1/2 tsp. nutritional yeast
1/2 tsp. flax seed meal, finely ground (use a coffee grinder if too coarse)
pinch of salt
cinnamon to taste
1 to 2 Tbsp. nut butter (I use soy and I've also tried cashew and almond but I find them too oily, coconut oil is an option too, use whatever you prefer)
1 to 2 Tbsp. of creamed honey, using regular honey will make it much sweeter
1/2 or 1 cup of frozen or fresh blueberries or other fruit
2 or 3 Tbsp. of milk, powdered or fresh
I also add a multivitamin and other supplements but they aren't necessary.
Combine ingredients in a blender and blend for a minute or so until the oatmeal is reduced to the consistency of a shake. Serve hot or cold.
I usually drink half the mixture immediately and then either save the rest for a mid-morning snack or continue drinking it while I'm starting my day. I've experimented with adding other seeds and grains but I find this mixture to be the most to my liking but it is an adaptable recipe so you can add whatever you prefer.
I had to quit coffee a decade ago because of a cardiovascular adventure that I had.
I don't know anything about physical effects such as headaches and weight gain; I didn't experience any of those and anyway they sound a little like TV hype to me. But I also have the experience of giving up smoking a couple of packs a day (gave it up many years before I quit the coffee) and while I never find myself wanting a cigarette, I'd still love a cup of dark first thing in the morning. It is a good thing in life.
>I don't know anything about physical effects such as headaches and weight gain; I didn't experience any of those and anyway they sound a little like TV hype to me.
TV hype? Caffeine is a drug. Don't know about weight gain, but headaches and such as well documented.
I have never consumed coffee on a regular basis. I like working out of cafes (I'm a nomad and working from my hostel room is drab too often a week), so I often resort to Hot Chocolate or a tea. Sometimes these are overpriced so I end up going with coffee, but I have about one cup every 2-3 months I would say.
If you find yourself having to drink coffee a lot outside of a cafe, it may not even be a caffeine addiction. I think for a lot of people it's just the feel and action of a coffee cup, something to do with your hands when you're stuck on that bug or waiting for your code to build/program to launch. I think a mug of hot water is great in these circumstances. Hot water is also great for digestion, keeps your mouth (and digestive tract) clean, is pretty much free, and keeps you warm just as well as anything else in a cold room.
It's a habit I picked up because my mom used to make me drink a big glass of hot water after I had icecream growing up, and I continued to do that after cold foods even after leaving home. I can't recommend hot water enough.
I love me a mug of hot water with a bit of honey mixed in. It's kind of like drinking tea, except without the actual tea flavor (for which I've never acquired the taste), and it's super-easy to prepare.
I stopped drinking coffee regularly about half a year ago. Before, I drank about a liter of fairly strong coffee per day, now I drink one to two liters of green tea.
Early withdrawal was unpleasant, mainly fatigue and headaches (then again, I've seen alcoholics detox, caffeine is withdrawal is a walk in the park in comparison), but that lasted only a couple of days.
My biggest surprise was that the "booster" effect of coffee in the early morning might have been a pure placebo effect - I am still quite groggy when I get up in the morning (then again, I get up 05:40 on workdays), but that clears up by the time I leave for work, plus I do not get the early afternon crash anymore.
On the other hand, the vegetative effects of coffee were substantial in retrospect, I now sweat a lot less, and my blood pressure has gone down.
I still do drink coffee on occasion, mainly on weekends, but a) it is not as strong, b) I drink less.
Also, green tea is an awesome substitute in terms of taste. The coffee I used to drink tasted like sewage in comparison.
2L of green tea can have as much caffeine as 1L of coffee, although exact amounts can vary massively depending on various brewing methods for each and the exact coffee or tea.
But he is saying that he experiences the same ramp-up in the mornings without caffeine, so what he thought was the experience of going from uncaffeinated to normal appears to have been unrelated to the caffeine and was actually the experience of going from just-woken-up to awake.
I find that I have little in the way of cravings/grogginess/crashing if I stick to about 30 floz (~0.9 liters, strong drip) in the morning. Even just bump that 40 floz and I notice a lot more unwanted effects.
I kind of had similar experience with my sleep patterns. I used to be kind of moderate to heavy coffee drinker and suffered from erratic sleep times. I cut out coffee to single cup in the morning and stopped the bright lights and monitors at night and effect has been quite amazing. I sleep early now and get a good night sleep and wake pretty early.
When Angelo mentioned that Dandy Blend, "an extract of roots and grains" including barley and rye, was gluten free, that seemed highly dubious. But it was nice to see such a thorough answer as the #1 FAQ on dandyblend.com/faq.asp! ... But excuse me while I go pump another shot of espresso.
I really recommend anyone who drinks black coffee try brewing their own loose leaf tea - greens, blacks, oolong, yerba matte.
Start with distilled water and add honey to taste, maybe even hemp milk (very creamy, nutty flavor, and omegas!)
Similar experiences and I quit coffee ~ 6 months ago. I switched to cacao; initially ground cacao beans and settled on cacao powder. For ground beans, I tried Choffy and Crio Bru through a coffee maker and then a french press. I liked it but wanted a deeper cacao flavor, moving to powder. To drink cacao with powder, I fill my travel mug with water, pour the water into a single cup coffee maker (no grounds in the filter) and place 1 1/2 - 2 T of cacao powder (usually Viva Labs or TruVibe for criollo cacao) into the mug, which mixes with the dispensed hot water. The cacao provides a boost, in a different way than coffee, and health benefits.
Caffein is the most widespread psychoactive drug by far. It's surprisingly hard to stop drinking it after twenty years. For many people the body starts acting like it's been poisened, and you can't sleep a whole night through without going to the toilet to pee. Quit coffee, and it stops after a few days.
Politicians that wants to keep up the war on drugs and continue to criminalize drug use, should try to go for a week without caffeine. I got a problem. I love coffee, but I have to stop.
I cut way back on coffee as well. I still drink a few cups a week. I've increased my green tea consumption greatly thanks to https://tomotcha.com/en/ Check it out. High quality green tea direct from Japan. Some very unique varieties that I don't regularly see in the states. Cheers!
I don't drink a lot of coffee, perhaps one or two cups a day - not every day.
Instead I used to drink energy drinks, at one point it was one a day (think RedBull sized). It's now been almost 6 months. It's so incredibly difficult to walk by and not feel tempted by their tastes and smells, but I know that if I were to drink it, it'd make me sick.
I quit coffee when I started strength training specifically to boost my workouts. A regular coffee drinker develops a tolerance towards caffeine and the only benefit that coffee provides at this point is withdrawal suppression. I now take a 200 mgs caffeine pill 30 mins before a workout and it it a tremendous training booster.
I quit coffee two years ago to help curb anxiety problems. I noticed I get less done, now, but what I do get done is of a higher quality, and I am less obsessive. It seems that slow, expansive thinking is more useful than turbocharged, focused thinking for certain kinds of work. Definitely a better default mode, at least.
Does anyone actually have opposite effect from coffee than expected, i.e. feeling asleep after having a cup or two? Happens to me all the time, I never experienced any usual caffeine effects... I can go to sleep normally after drinking 5 cups of strong coffee... What is wrong with me?
I don't feel sleepy after drinking coffee, I simply don't feel it having any effects on me whatsoever. That being said, I can't stand the taste of it either, so I've probably had less cups of coffee in my life than some people have on a daily basis. Tea though... that's another story ;-)
A word of warning from someone who drank 2-3 cups/day of coffee for 50 years: go easy. Too much coffee will give you gastro-esophageal reflex disease (GERD), then you can't drink any more coffee, alcohol, or eat chocolate or vinegar.
I don't drink coffee terribly frequently, but I'm still intrigued by this Dandy Blend drink... has anyone else tried it? Even for the samples, it costs $11.60 to have it shipped to eastern Canada, so I'm a little hesitant.
I've lived without coffee/caffeine in the past, but I've never felt better and more productive than now, when I drink 1-2 coffees in the morning & stricly avoid any more caffeine than that.
i drink a lot of loose tea
Like Oolong, green tea, yellow tea and black tea.
Matcha and yerba are also good.
there is so much tea in the world that there will be something for everybody. You just have to learn to brew it correctly. for example most green teas dont like more then 80C hot water.
Teas like Matcha can have the same effect like coffee but without the sudden drop of energy after a short time.
It'll be a bit more expensive than your local store, but you could try ordering (decaf) beans online. Weirdly this seems to be a much bigger thing over here in the UK, but I did find this: http://dailygrind.com/index.php?cPath=22_27
I love coffee. I love drinking it and I love the effects it has. I love the feeling of a waking up with a nice hot cuppa every morning as I read the news. I love getting a cup in the afternoon after lunch. I love making coffee for my wife, and I love when she offers to make me a cup when she makes herself a cup. I love coffee even though since I started lifting weights and eating well, I don't really need it.
Every comment when I wrote this was about giving up coffee. I wanted to offer a different perspective.
I used to smoke cigarettes quite a bit for a number of years. If you replaced everything in your comment about coffee to the corresponding language about cigarettes, I would've resonated perfectly with your description assuming I still smoked.
I gave up smoking but continue to drink coffee, so your comment still does resonate :)
disclaimer: I'm not trying to compare the effects of coffee and nicotine, and I don't know the first thing about the physiological basis of addiction.
Love coffee - used to work at a coffee related startup as well where we had access to the nicest machines and best, freshest roasts. I got extremely geeky about it for a few years. I have since calmed down on my consumption but have no plans on ever giving it up.
The one negative is that I become quite a miserable person if I don't have my morning cup before 9am. At that point it almost feels too late to recover with onset headaches almost inevitable. Even with that in mind I have no plans on trying to quit. Went cold turkey for about 3 months once just to prove I could do it, sucked for about 2-3 days then felt fine.
Same here. I drink it for just the taste and smell. I can go off it for days and I don't get any adverse effects, nor do I feel any different lest I consume it excessively (about a litre).
Under the takeaways after two weeks, he mentions that it was easier for him to fall asleep and wake up. But there is no mention on the number of hours pre/post the experiment and no mention on what times he would drink coffee. If he stayed awake 18 hours when he drank coffee and only 16 hours when he didn't, it would make sense he felt more awake in the morning.
I guess I am just annoyed at any of the claimed health benefits through a small anecdote.