I think that by using the "powered by water and salt" phrase they are trying to present the product in layman's terms. For most of the people it's sufficent description to understand the product and using the "galvanic" term wouldn't help to understand it better.
However it would be nice if they had a "how does it work?" subpage with scientific explanation - for the credibility.
With the term "powered by water and salt", it makes it seem like the battery can be "recharged" by replacing the salt. This is not the case, when the battery loses power, the battery is "recharged" by replacing the copper and zinc electrodes (or whatever metals they are using).
So a less scammy description would be to say that is is powered by copper and zinc. This is more correct both technically and to a layman.
I disagree, it causes laymen to completely misunderstand the product. The product is not "energy from water and salt". The product is a fixed quantity of chemical energy sold in the form of the metal anodes/cathodes. This is no different than selling non-rechargeable batteries.
They are not presenting the product in layperson's terms. They are misrepresenting it as badly as saying, "A car that runs on rubber! Just add tires!" and then making money by selling buyers gasoline.
1. Do you think the people who will be using this are actually going to read this marketing copy? (hint: it's not in their language, assuming they are literate)
2. Their current systems involve constantly buying and rationing kerosene, candles, and batteries. Do you think 'rechargeability' is their primary concern?
Assholes, huh? That's funny. Because it almost seems like you've never worked with an NGO to try to convince local villages and governments to adopt a new product that upends their cultural norms with new technology. Because someone who might talk about the problems with attracting funding to the projects, without knowing anything about them, might be seen as an asshole.
1. The copy is primarily a marketing tool; it is not sales copy. For investors they may work with NGOs, local outreach organizations, file for grants, and make requests of a few private companies that work in the region. The website is just boilerplate, and any intelligent person who's attracted by the idea and works in this field is not going to assume someone is a scammer because their copy does not include technical jargon or scientific wordage.
2. They are not lying. You are arguing semantics. The product works as advertised; I challenge you to quote the 'misleading' sections verbatim so we can have a word-off. And seeing how the company is made up of filipinos and working directly with local tribes to bring them the product, I trust them a lot more than a bunch of bay area hipsters with scientifically-accurate marketing copy.
While I would not have used the harsh words, grandparent is right in most respects.
I challenge you to quote the 'misleading' sections verbatim
Voila:
Sustainable and cost effective ecologically designed
lamp powered by "tap water" and "table salt!"
The lamp is not powered by tap water or table salt. It is powered by a non-rechargeable battery. This is misleading, putting it charitably. To anyone who knows anything about energy, this is not just "semantics" it is an false claim about the fundamental nature of the product.
Perhaps they meant to put "powered" in scare quotes, not "tap water" and "table salt" but they didn't.
Edit: more examples
You can also use the ocean-water to power up your lamp!
Use the ocean-water to power up your lamp and it will
give you 8 hours of running-time.
Store ocean-water in bottles and use them to power up
you lamp anytime, anywhere.
To a naive reader these statements imply that the energy comes from the ocean water. It does not, therefore the statements are misleading.
There are no false claims in this web site. The entire product is explained - just not in one sentence. They explain that salt + water added to the lamp will create power, which it will, because that's the only thing the machine lacks in order to produce power. They also explain that an anode has to be replaced every six months. According to the theory of similar devices, this is all that is involved with the creation of the power, thus, this is the entire design and function of the product.
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If you have a car, and I said "this car is powered by gasoline", would this be a misleading, false claim about the product? Would I be a liar?
According to you and the parent commenter, Yes, because the car requires a battery and spark plugs to ignite the gasoline along with oxygen.
Technically speaking, gasoline, oxygen, vacuum, a battery, spark plugs, a fuel pump, fuel injectors, an ECU, sensors, pistons, valves, and a whole lot more shit are needed to "power" the car. Without all those things there is no "power" created. What generates the power directly is spark igniting a precise mixture of gas and oxygen, which then applies force to mechanical parts. But a lot more things are involved in making that happen, and maintenance is required on most of it. All of which the average car user has no effing clue about.
You do not need to know any of that in order to 'power' a car. And I am not a liar for telling you a car is 'powered' by gasoline. I simply didn't explain the design of the internal combustion engine to you.
The car comes with a battery, spark plugs and oxygen, just like this lamp comes with an anode, and it needs regular maintenance, just like the various parts of a car. Just like gasoline for a car, water and salt are the fuel for this lamp. The fuel is the only part you need to understand to use it.
They explain several times that the anode has to be replaced every six months [based on average use]. They have omitted nothing. There is no deception. Just simple language explaining only what you need to know to use it.
> To anyone who knows anything about energy, this is not just "semantics" it is an false claim about the fundamental nature of the product
The product's users are not chemists or engineers. They're tribal villagers in the Philippines, for christ's sake. Anyone who speaks english and is intelligent enough to pay for the project will read the whole thing, just like all of us did, and realize how it works, just like all of us did, and be satisfied.
I wrote a bunch of crap below, but the point is this: do you think an average non scientific reader would come to the conclusion that the device extracts energy from salt water? If the answer is yes, then the site is misleading, because it does not. The rest is just quibbling over the definition of the word "power". Most people on this thread seem to disagree with you on that, and unfortunately words mean what the majority thinks they mean. (I'm not being sarcastic when I say 'unfortunately', it's annoying when words become corrupted through misuse, although I don't think that that's not what is happening here.)
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There are no false claims in this web site.
You asked for misleading, which is what I provided.
They explain that salt + water added to the lamp will
create power, which it will, because that's the only
thing the machine lacks in order to produce power.
By that analogy, a properly fueled car is "powered by" its ignition key, since that is the only thing the machine lacks in order to produce power. I disagree.
If you have a car, and I said "this car is powered by
gasoline", would this be a misleading, false claim
about the product? Would I be a liar?
According to you and the parent commenter, Yes, because
the car requires a battery and spark plugs to ignite
the gasoline along with oxygen.
You have a point about the oxygen, but not about the other components. The car is powered by the gasoline and the oxygen, since those two chemicals react to release energy. It is not powered by the spark plugs, etc. They are necessary for the car to work, but they are not a source of energy, so they do not power the car.
You could arguably say "the car is powered by its engine" with a slightly different meaning of the word power. To use that sense of the word power with respect to the lamp, I would say "the lamp is powered by its battery" - there isn't really a term that separates the source of energy in the battery from the device that converts it to the form we want.
Technically speaking, gasoline, oxygen, vacuum, a
battery, spark plugs, a fuel pump, fuel injectors, an
ECU, sensors, pistons, valves, and a whole lot more
shit are needed to "power" the car. Without all those
things there is no "power" created. What generates the
power directly is spark igniting a precise mixture of
gas and oxygen, which then applies force to mechanical
parts. But a lot more things are involved in making
that happen, and maintenance is required on most of it.
All of which the average car user has no effing clue
about.
If we're talking to average users, I would say the two correct statements are "the car is powered by gasoline (and oxygen)" or "the car is powered by the engine".
You do not need to know any of that in order to 'power'
a car. And I am not a liar for telling you a car is
'powered' by gasoline. I simply didn't explain the
design of the internal combustion engine to you.
No, but saying the salt water powers the lamp is more like saying the car is powered by the motor oil, or the spark plugs, or the carburetor. The salt water is neither a source of energy (gasoline), nor a (complete) mechanism that turns one form of energy into another (an engine).
The car comes with a battery, spark plugs and oxygen,
just like this lamp comes with an anode, and it needs
regular maintenance, just like the various parts of a
car. Just like gasoline for a car, water and salt are
the fuel for this lamp. The fuel is the only part you
need to understand to use it.
No. Fuel is a store of energy. Salt water is not a store of energy (unless you're extracting the deuterium from it and putting it in a hydrogen bomb). Gasoline is a fuel. Motor oil and spark plugs are not. Similarly, a metal anode is a fuel. Salt water is not, nor copper wires (when used for conducting electricity), nor the liquid container it all goes in.
They explain several times that the anode has to be
replaced every six months [based on average use]. They
have omitted nothing. There is no deception. Just
simple language explaining only what you need to know
to use it.
They make the anode sound like just a random thing you happen to have to replace for maintenance (like spark plugs) while the salt water provides the energy. This is exactly the opposite of what happens. The anode is where the energy comes from. The salt water is the incidental maintenance. This is what people are complaining about.
The product's users are not chemists or engineers.
They're tribal villagers in the Philippines, for
christ's sake. Anyone who speaks english and is
intelligent enough to pay for the project will read the
whole thing, just like all of us did, and realize how
it works, just like all of us did, and be satisfied.
The target audience of this website are journalists and investors, not tribal villagers. Journalists and investors don't just need to know how to use the product. They need to know what is novel about it or what value it provides over other existing solutions. The website makes it sound like the novelty is extracting energy from salt water. This claim is preposterous, which is why all the commenters are complaining.
> The website makes it sound like the novelty is extracting energy from salt water.
This is your interpretation. There exists no statement which says that this is a novel product. In fact, there is a direct quote where it says this is based on a well known scientific principle, and that this is basically a battery.
> This claim is preposterous, which is why all the commenters are complaining.
You have just taken a "this sounds like" and turned it into "a claim"; you have just invented through assumptions and insinuations a problem which does not exist. The idea that these people are being deceptive is in your head.
You based all this perceived deceit on the technical definition of the word 'power', or the phrase 'to power', and their lack of a complete, one-sentence description of the operation of the chemical reaction which creates energy in the device. In the end, they do get across fully the idea of how the device works and the implications thereof. But you ignore that so you can continue to paint them as bad guys.
This is a textbook example of Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt (FUD). And it's an incredibly long troll. I'm signing off.
Mine, and pretty much everyone else's on the thread. If everyone interprets what you say a particular way, maybe that's what it appears to mean? And if that's not what you meant, maybe you said it wrong?
There exists no statement which says that this is a novel
product. In fact, there is a direct quote where it says
this is based on a well known scientific principle, and
that this is basically a battery.
This is Michael Moore logic. This is the idea that if you say something which is technically correct, but is obviously misinterpreted by many readers to mean something else, you didn't lie, because there is an alternative technical interpretation which is correct. I don't live by Michael Moore logic.
You have just taken a "this sounds like" and turned it
into "a claim"; you have just invented through
assumptions and insinuations a problem which does not
exist. The idea that these people are being deceptive
is in your head.
Oh, come on. I was using the word claim to refer to the concept I had just described in a previous sentence. Sadly I don't know a word that means, "the idea either intentionally or naively, but either way incorrectly, implied by someone".
You based all this perceived deceit on the technical
definition of the word 'power', or the phrase 'to
power',
No, I based it on the colloquial definition, of "to give energy to", or to "make go". Motor oil and spark plugs don't power a car, in colloquial language. Similarly, salt water does not power this lamp.
and their lack of a complete, one-sentence description
of the operation of the chemical reaction which creates
energy in the device.
When you're selling a battery, and you refuse to call what you're selling a battery, it makes the reader rightfully suspicious. And the (paraphrased) sentence "based on the science of batteries" implies it is different than a battery, because to a casual reader, the only reason to say "based on the science of X" is that it is not the same thing as X, otherwise you would just say, "this is an X".
In the end, they do get across fully the idea of how
the device works and the implications thereof.
No, they really really don't. They just don't. I repeat: how many non-scientific readers do you think would conclude, "wow, this thing creates energy from salt water?". I would say most. An that statement is false.
This is a textbook example of Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt (FUD).
Yes, galvanic cells work. No, they're not magic. No, the salt water doesn't "power" the solution (it enables electron flow between cathode and anode).
It's also not a rechargeable process, though it's possible to recycle the cathode/anode, generally.
Solar power or other storage cell technology would be of similar use.