You can yawn all you want. The link I posted says that 'overloading' (your word) the string 'debug' is fine. That's what it was meant for.
I mean.. Go ahead, flame not just Lennart et al, Linus might be wrong too!
Reading the mail I linked to leads to the following
- userspace can and should read the kernel command line, very explicitly including the word 'debug'
- userspace shouldn't crap out and cause a failure to boot. Surprise!
The latter was a bug. The former is what you're trying to stuff into this thread for no reason. You might not like the 'kernel debug command line affects systemd' behavior, but that seems to be a) something the systemd guys want to keep (Ready your pitch fork..) and b) Linus himself seems to consider okay - IF that doesn't cause regressions.
That whole mailing list thread is basically just about personal issues between Linus and Kay and a 'not my problem' attitude towards regressions.
The general idea of using the 'debug' kernel command line parameter to mean something specific for systemd? That's considered okay and correct.
So no, your whining is still unrelated to the (journalctl/less) topic at hand, you just felt that your pet peeve should be mentioned here as well. And .. it still makes no sense. There was a bug in systemd. It got fixed. Systemd reading/using kernel command lines without their own namespace? Fine. Correct. Good. Accepted.
"debug" can mean a lot of things and everyone's entitled to use "debug" to mean something system specific. No need to invent a systemd.debug here. Straight from the horse's mouth, we're done.
(For reference: You hijacked the thread with "(they) wouldn't namespace the kernel command line options so systemd's debug output isn't confused with the kernel's debug output" - and that's obviously wrong if you read the mail I linked to - and maybe a bit of the discussion around that)
You might not like the 'kernel debug command line affects systemd' behavior
Correct, I don't like that behavior. Just like I, along with a bunch of other people, don't like this pager options handling. If I like it or not has nothing to do with what Linus says or what the systemd guys want to keep. I also find this namespacing of options to be inconsistent, either inconsistent with the rest of the systemd ecosystem and/or inconsistent with how environment variables are defacto-standard used to do things like this.
I didn't "hijack" this thread. I made one comment, a snarky comment I felt was related. Usually my comments get ignored. But I guess not today. Glad I could keep you busy.
I mean.. Go ahead, flame not just Lennart et al, Linus might be wrong too! Reading the mail I linked to leads to the following
- userspace can and should read the kernel command line, very explicitly including the word 'debug'
- userspace shouldn't crap out and cause a failure to boot. Surprise!
The latter was a bug. The former is what you're trying to stuff into this thread for no reason. You might not like the 'kernel debug command line affects systemd' behavior, but that seems to be a) something the systemd guys want to keep (Ready your pitch fork..) and b) Linus himself seems to consider okay - IF that doesn't cause regressions.
That whole mailing list thread is basically just about personal issues between Linus and Kay and a 'not my problem' attitude towards regressions. The general idea of using the 'debug' kernel command line parameter to mean something specific for systemd? That's considered okay and correct.
So no, your whining is still unrelated to the (journalctl/less) topic at hand, you just felt that your pet peeve should be mentioned here as well. And .. it still makes no sense. There was a bug in systemd. It got fixed. Systemd reading/using kernel command lines without their own namespace? Fine. Correct. Good. Accepted.
"debug" can mean a lot of things and everyone's entitled to use "debug" to mean something system specific. No need to invent a systemd.debug here. Straight from the horse's mouth, we're done.
(For reference: You hijacked the thread with "(they) wouldn't namespace the kernel command line options so systemd's debug output isn't confused with the kernel's debug output" - and that's obviously wrong if you read the mail I linked to - and maybe a bit of the discussion around that)