> Think of it this way: Aren't you enforcing a new political correctness?
I'm not saying that discrimination shouldn't be pointed out, I'm merely in support of substantiating such claims with good evidence. "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" and all that, and if the discrimination isn't blatant (like early 1900's US racism), then a good argument could be made that maybe we're just seeing things, because it is known that the human brain loves spotting patterns where they don't actually exist. Therefore if anything fishy is up, it should be able to be substantiated with some kind of coherent argument that isn't just appealing to the 'unfairness' of the 'system'.
If you were in a situation where you were randomly accused for something as serious as racism, you'd probably want your accuser to provide a good argument for it too. I'm merely saying that we should hold this as the standard for this type of discussion, because clearly it can quickly devolve if we're just throwing anecdotes around.
PS: I didn't downvote you, as I think you did well contributing to the discussion, so I apologize for you being in the grey; HN is obnoxiously downvote happy.
Thanks, this is a much more interesting discussion.
> I'm not saying that discrimination shouldn't be pointed out, I'm merely in support of substantiating such claims with good evidence.
Agreed. I think 5 out of 5 white male authors is not great evidence, and in something this sensitive and well-discussed, we should be careful. However, awareness is really the central issue (see below) which is why I like the original comment -- though clearly it should be carefully expressed!
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> "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" and all that, and if the discrimination isn't blatant (like early 1900's US racism)
In my opinion, the evidence is very strong: Look at the dominance of white males in our society, in business, in government (look at a group photo of Congress -- notice something statistically odd?), in our culture, etc. When white males are only (33%?) of the population, I think the evidence is overwhelming that some sort of widespread discrimination must exist to explain the outcomes. Add to that our history of discrimination against these very same groups, minorities and women, and personally I am convinced that discrimination occurs widely even if specific situations are hard to prove. It's not as bad as 1900 or 1950, but it's still a very serious problem -- I can just talk about it, but it's a very real problem for those who live it every day, with every job they apply to, with every social situation, every store they walk into, etc. etc.
Also, anecdotally, many white people I know privately repeat the old racial and gender stereotypes (and I don't seek out that crowd).
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> If you were in a situation where you were randomly accused for something as serious as racism, you'd probably want your accuser to provide a good argument for it too.
Most importantly, I think being racist is the human condition. We all do it, me too. It's in our nature to be tribal and to dehumanize others. It's like being accused of being a sinner or having bugs in your code (not to trivialize racism): Of course I do; the question, is what do I do about it.
Awareness is the key I think, and many who study the issue say the same. Few want to discriminate, it's just that we're all naturally blind to it. That tribal instinct has a very unfortunate coincidence of properties: We are naturally a little blind, and it is the cause of the worst of what humanity does to itself: Generations of oppression for women, black teens getting shot, wars of genocide, reckless invasions of other countries, etc. etc.
I'm not saying that discrimination shouldn't be pointed out, I'm merely in support of substantiating such claims with good evidence. "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" and all that, and if the discrimination isn't blatant (like early 1900's US racism), then a good argument could be made that maybe we're just seeing things, because it is known that the human brain loves spotting patterns where they don't actually exist. Therefore if anything fishy is up, it should be able to be substantiated with some kind of coherent argument that isn't just appealing to the 'unfairness' of the 'system'.
If you were in a situation where you were randomly accused for something as serious as racism, you'd probably want your accuser to provide a good argument for it too. I'm merely saying that we should hold this as the standard for this type of discussion, because clearly it can quickly devolve if we're just throwing anecdotes around.
PS: I didn't downvote you, as I think you did well contributing to the discussion, so I apologize for you being in the grey; HN is obnoxiously downvote happy.