Ask HN: Should I Be Fully Open About a Patentable Physical Technology Idea?

[_hmpc]

Let's just say I invented the VIRES wing idea (link: http://www.viresaero.com/). That is to say it is a physical technology invention that would be easily understood for someone in aerospace (many people have probably thought of it), but maybe clever in application or execution (I don't know if VIRES is but let's assume so). Should I talk freely to startup incubators in the hopes of getting somewhere or evolving the idea? Should I be afraid of someone with more resources building a prototype before I can, or patenting it, etc.? If you have any "credentials" or supporting anecdotes for your answer please state so. Of course I welcome everyone's opinions. Thanks for all of your input.

I am asking this question because of the relatively new (a few years old) patent law regarding first-to-file. If we were still under first-to-invent, I would go ahead, keeping good records of my communications on the idea.

[lutusp]

> Should I be afraid of someone with more resources building a prototype before I can, or patenting it, etc.?

In a word, yes. The U.S. Patent system has recently changed from a first-to-invent rule, to a first-to-file rule. In some cases this may mean that someone can take your idea and file it is his own. It's not supposed to work that way, and there are various safeguards, but the possibility exists that someone could simply take your idea and claim it as his own.

http://www.blankrome.com/index.cfm?contentID=37&itemID=2884

The bottom line is, if you have an idea you think may be patentable, you should file it before revealing it to anyone.

[_hmpc → lutusp]

Thank you for your input. I am aware of the relatively new law change, and I should have mentioned it in the question (I edited it so that it is now). It is actually the reason I am asking. If we were still first-to-invent, I would go ahead and discuss away with any incubator I wanted, making sure to keep good records of my communications.

Filing presents two obstacles: time limit and cost. Filing a full patent requires lots of money, and filing a provisional patent gives you only a year to choose whether to file a full patent, or the idea is forever unpatentable.

It is really constricting to have to decide these things before being able to talk freely about it.

[throwawaykf05 → _hmpc]

IANAL so be sure to confirm this with a real patent attorney, but...

>... or the idea is forever unpatentable.

As I understand it, this is incorrect. Provisional patents, unless followed up by a non-provisional filing within a year, are never published and never searched and and never considered as prior art, or as anything, going forward. They may as well not exist, since typically nobody even looks at them unless a proper non-provisional is filed. You can very well file a patent, or heck, yet another provisional on the same idea (resulting in a new priority date, of course). The risk you run is somebody else filing on, or simply describing, that invention in the interim, in which case you lose rights to claim as your own in the new first-to-file regime.

Edit: I completely understand your hesitation, as it often takes many years to bring even a small innovation to the market, so the choice is hard. That said, a provisional can cost as little as $65 if you qualify as a microentity and file it yourself. All you need is to file a detailed description, and let a real attorney / agent draft the non-provisional if you decide to convert. But be sure to be excruciatingly detailed about every aspect of your invention, else it can limit what you claim in the non-provisional. My view is, for less than a hundred bucks, it may be worth filing one just in case.

[ScottBurson → _hmpc]

> It is really constricting to have to decide these things before being able to talk freely about it.

Yes, it is.

You can try to get people to sign NDAs. I don't know how much luck you will have. Sometimes, or so I've read, people in your situation find small clues they can share that will pique the other party's interest without giving away the whole idea. That possibility might be worth exploring.

[sharemywin → _hmpc]

try elance you'd be surprised what you can get a full patent filed for.

[lutusp → _hmpc]

> Filing presents two obstacles: time limit and cost.

Someone else, someone who realizes the value of your idea, may see it differently.

> ... or the idea is forever unpatentable.

Only by you. If you don't follow up a provisional patent by filing for a full patent, this doesn't mean someone else can't take the same idea, make some minor changes, and re-file it.

> It is really constricting to have to decide these things before being able to talk freely about it.

There are people who have sometimes-valuable ideas and who talk freely about them. One example is mathematicians. The reason? Mathematics can't be patented.