And yet that doesn't stop some children of poor, divorced parents, growing up in educational backwaters, from achieving success far beyond what they could have extrapolated from observing their parents' situation. So what are we saying, that it's the stupid kids who get ahead?
Hmm... that actually may not be as ridiculous as it sounds at first blush. Not "stupid" though, more like "unreasonable". I'm reminded of the George Bernard Shaw quote "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
Maybe the most important thing is exactly being unreasonable enough to shoot for vistas that are seemingly unreachable?
I don't know, but personally, I think "work ethic" is one of the most important things one can glean from your family environment growing up. I grew up in a single parent household through a chunk of my childhood, and a poor, rural "white trash" sort of environment through the majority of my childhood, but if I learned one thing from my dad, it was drive and work ethic. And to the extent that I've been successful in life, I'd credit that (and a boatload of perseverance) more than anything else.
I'd be curious to know if those factors are actually largely attributable to genetic factors, or if they're more "learned behavior". shrug
I think you've missed the point. If your parents are intelligent and motivated, having a strong work ethic, and yet have still failed to make ends meet and establish a fulfilling life then the indications are that no matter how hard you work you can still fail. This can look at lot like "you will still fail".
So you say to your kids, work hard at school, et cetera, but what's the backing? "Didn't you work hard, Daddy?". "Well yes, but greedy bankers gambled and lost and caused a recession that made our company fail and we lost everything ...".
If a child's primary example contradicts a lesson then it's a lot harder to justify that lesson for them.
If your parents are intelligent and motivated, having a strong work ethic, and yet have still failed to make ends meet and establish a fulfilling life then the indications are that no matter how hard you work you can still fail. This can look at lot like "you will still fail".
Seems to me you're saying pretty much the same thing as the post I replied to earlier. The point, as I see it, is that while what you say is true, it is still the case that some kids who see evidence which would seem to support a conclusion of "you will fail" still manage to go on to greater success than their parents.
The question in my mind, then, is "why"? What results in the "unreasonable" kids who say "screw the odds, screw fate, I'm doing this anyway", despite the evidence?
As far as looking at it from a parent's perspective... I don't have kids, so I haven't thought about it much from that angle. But I think if I ever have kids, I'll want to teach them a lot of the same basic lessons my parents taught me, including "work hard and you can achieve anything you want". Note, of course, that "can" != "will". But I think kids are smart enough to understand that sometimes bad/unexpected things can happen, and that sometimes even when you "do everything right" external factors can knock you off the rails. The important thing there, IMO, is the attitude of "it's not how many times you get knocked down, it's how many times you get back up".
>basic lessons my parents taught me, including "work hard and you can achieve anything you want" //
This is the crux though. You can't achieve anything you want, it might happen and your effort can help. As I see it the original comment was saying if the only tangible example is the parent telling you this and they haven't achieved anything like what they wanted - like are out of work, no money, living on benefits despite working hard, etc. - then how do you carry off that suggestion that it's better to work hard.
Technically true for a certain level of pedantry, but I still find that a useful overall mindset in general. shrug
then how do you carry off that suggestion that it's better to work hard.
I don't know exactly how you do it, at least not in a consistently reproducible way. What I'm saying is, we know some kids do take that lesson to heart, despite the lack of obvious evidence.
[what goes here?]
"... but you're smarter than we are, and you'll have the benefit of learning from the mistakes we made ..."
Or something like that. Again, I think kids are smart enough to understand the distinction between saying something is possible and saying that it's guaranteed.
Hmm... that actually may not be as ridiculous as it sounds at first blush. Not "stupid" though, more like "unreasonable". I'm reminded of the George Bernard Shaw quote "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
Maybe the most important thing is exactly being unreasonable enough to shoot for vistas that are seemingly unreachable?
I don't know, but personally, I think "work ethic" is one of the most important things one can glean from your family environment growing up. I grew up in a single parent household through a chunk of my childhood, and a poor, rural "white trash" sort of environment through the majority of my childhood, but if I learned one thing from my dad, it was drive and work ethic. And to the extent that I've been successful in life, I'd credit that (and a boatload of perseverance) more than anything else.
I'd be curious to know if those factors are actually largely attributable to genetic factors, or if they're more "learned behavior". shrug