I have the very greatest respect for Alan Turing and his achievements - fantastic guy and should have got proper recognition for both his war work and his contributions to maths and the emerging science of computing.
OK - here comes the however. You can't apologise to just one person for the persecution of homosexuals during that era. What was done to Turing was disgusting and probably we should be ashamed of it as a nation but it was done to so many - any apology must be to them all.
why? Turing made an 'above and beyond' contribution to his country, and really, to the world. It seems to me like the government should go out of it's way, in an 'above and beyond' sort of way to apologize for repaying that contribution with shit.
Common men doing common jobs make it possible for exceptional people to exist. Nobody has time for art or science unless all the more basic human needs are provided for by someone else. We are all contributors to their possibility.
And without exceptional people to forge the way ahead, we'd all be doing common jobs.
What does the plight of the gay community, the world over, have to do with the exceptionally unfair treatment of one Alan Turing by the British Government?
Unfortunately Alan Turing wasn't treated any more exceptionally unfair than thousands of others in that period.
An apology to the whole community and any survivors is in order and a posthumous knighthood for A. M. Turing.
That would do nicely.
On another note, whether or not Alan Turing gets knighted I don't think it should make any difference to the rest of us, the man should be a true hero of anybody that knows even a little bit of the history of computing.
I would find that more than acceptable. But I think it's a little dismissive to say that Alan Turing didn't get stabbed in the back more than other gays. Here's a man who serves his country in an outstanding fashion and _then_ is violated and mutilated. I'm not trying to belittle the suffering of other gays, I'm just trying to highlight the exceptional pettiness of the government towards one of its greatest thinkers.
It's like what happened to Oppenheimer during McCarthyism. Thousands of perfectly fine people forced out of their work because they were socialist or communist or even just didn't hate communism as much as was expected. At least Oppenheimer got something of an apology. That's not as bad as being chemically castrated, but I think the situation bears some similarities.
Are you saying that in terms of the public profile he had and the major contributions he made?
Because that's suggesting Turing deserved, and still deserves, special treatment for being a clever person (even though he actually faced less than some gay men at the time).
I don't know but I don't imagine even Turing himself would want to hold a position like that. Im sure many more brilliant men were persecuted for their homosexuality most of whom we will never have heard of and never got their chance to make their contribution! :)
Canonise the example, sure. But perhaps not the man: let him be known best for his contribution!
> Here's a man who serves his country in an outstanding fashion and _then_ is violated and mutilated.
That is very true, but he wasn't violated / mutilated because of his serving the country (and the rest of the world incidentally).
It wasn't to make an example of him. The only reason we even have the spotlight of how inhumane homosexuals were treated in those days is probably because an exceptional thinker also was homosexual.
If not for that it is highly doubtful that there ever would be a way to petition about this with any chance of success.
That's a sad thing, but I suspect it to be the truth.
Was he homosexual or bisexual - his engagement and his acknowledgement to his fiancée that he had "homosexual tendencies" (eg http://www-history.mcs.st-andrews.ac.uk/Biographies/Clarke_J... ) suggests that he was not exclusively attracted to men what actual sexual activity he undertook is not known to men nor I suspect to anyone else who didn't share whatever arena he chose for his affairs.
The manner in which he was arrested rather suggests a honeytrap [I'm speculating here, assess for yourself] - which could account for any animosity of the UK Government, not particularly wanting to reward spies that fell victim to enemy traps. The other point at issue may be that Turing as a 40 year old was picking up teenagers for sex (according to the reports of his arrest) - would someone now be knighted who knowingly followed that sort of promiscuous lifestyle? Would you expect that to be true also in the mid 20th century?
Turing was a great mathematician and left a great legacy in that field, other aspects of his character appear less clear.
It has everything to do with it - gays were and in many places are still persecuted for being gay just as Turing was persecuted for being gay.
Even if your concern is only with exceptional people, think of this: what if a potential future Alan Turing is stymied from exceptional achievements because of barriers due to societal intolerance of his sexual orientation?
This seems a bit fallacious to me, since exceptional people would exist regardless.
Granted, you probably meant that common people doing common jobs makes it possible for those exceptional people to do the exceptional things, but I take issue even with that.
It seems based on the premises,
1. that, absent technology, providing for basic human needs would take up all of an individual's productive time,
2. that art and science are similarly completely consuming (or, perhaps, that the outcome is worthless if not worked on full time), and
3. that a group effort at providing for basic human needs provides no surplus beyond a sum of the effort of the individuals.
I assert that all three premises are patently false.
I don't like this point of view. Exceptional people are exceptional, period. What they do doesn't go in a separate realm of "exceptional things", it has effects here for everybody. The coin their work is measured in should be the same as for common folk. They just make more of it, and it's counter-productive to think "Einstein couldn't have done anything if not for the garbageman who collected the trash twice a week".
What was done to Turing was disgusting and probably we should be ashamed of it as a nation but it was done to so many - any apology must be to them all.
Sure, but it was hardly a phenomenon unique to the UK. That kind of treatment of homosexuals (and indeed, much worse treatments) were sanctioned by every government on Earth. In addition, just about every religion, club, society, private business and the vast majority of individuals. And not just in that era, but from the dawn of time until very recently (and continuing 'til today in many countries). So any apology needs to be by everybody.
Ah, but why just homosexuals? All sorts of other groups have been treated unfairly throughout history, often in far more horrible ways than happened to Alan Turing. And let's not forget all the individuals who were treated poorly in their lives for reasons that have nothing to do with membership of any group. So ideally, any apology should be from everybody to everybody -- nothing else would be fair.
Oh, okay, fine. On behalf of the human race, I'd like to apologize for every bad thing ever done by any now dead member of the human race to any other now dead member of the human race. Also, on behalf of the human race, I accept that apology. Can we get on with our lives now?
>That kind of treatment of homosexuals (and indeed, much
>worse treatments) were sanctioned by every government on
>Earth. In addition, just about every religion, club,
>society, private business and the vast majority of
>individuals. And not just in that era, but from the dawn
>of time until very recently
That's a very strange reading of history. There's been massive variations in the way homosexuality is treated across cultures, just go back to classical Greece and Rome for some examples. Homophobia isn't a natural instinct, it's something we learn.
I don't like historical apologies either, but I hate the implication of your argument against this one. We have to make moral judgments about history, so we can figure out how to do better. Sure it's hard and uncomfortable, but anything else is a cop-out.
Sanctioned by EVERY government on Earth?!? I'm not sure where you're getting your facts from, but from what I've read there have been many cultures, particular in the East, where homosexuality has been acceptable.
In India homosexuality had only recently been decriminalised. The only reason it had been illegal was due to an old British rule. From what I know there was nothing in Indian law punishing homosexuality prior to this.
I imagine pre-Islam India must have been even more liberal, given some of the carvings on the ancient temples ...
OK - here comes the however. You can't apologise to just one person for the persecution of homosexuals during that era. What was done to Turing was disgusting and probably we should be ashamed of it as a nation but it was done to so many - any apology must be to them all.