Musk and Tesla are given far more benefit of the doubt than any one else. Criticism is jumped on and scorned very quickly, and is a karma massacre. As such, I normally do not comment on Tesla threads at all. There seems to be little reason applied, its like saying some one's baby is ugly.
If it were a Microsoft car catching fire, or over stating benefits and what not, I suspect the reaction would be very, very different. Im beginning to see Tesla as the automotive Linux. Wont be long until we have people claiming Tesla cars cure cancer.
This fawning attitude, and unwillingness to allow debate and criticism seriously puts me off Tesla. I mean, even you have tried to suggest that any criticism is not reasoned debate, but oil and automotive negative PR. The criticism cant possibly be reasonable, it simply must be a conspiracy of the oil industry. You even say that the opinion should not be written at all. So much for open society.
All this, IMHO, is a big problem for Tesla. When people are being unrealistically positive and rejecting criticism like its some sort of heresy, Tesla becomes an easy target to shoot at. Especially for its enemies.
Too much "one of us" vibe here as far a Musk is concerned. He is a great bloke, and Im am very much in the positive camp, I've been advocating and keenly following electric cars for years before Musk ever got involved and I am 100% glad that a man like Musk has invested loads of his own money and time in to it, but fans need to be realistic and not so silly about criticism.
Tesla and Musk are not the problem, the fans however are.
I take the opposite viewpoint. 99.9% of startups, tech companies, and subjects on Hacker News can go hang themselves. People comparing Steve Jobs to Elon Musk are, frankly, completely missing the point.
Seriously, this is what baffles me most about Tesla hate. Did everyone forget that our world has had a massive, unsustainable energy crisis for 50 years? Forget climate change for a second, our entire foreign policy since 1973 has been based around securing cheap oil. Every person in our country should be unified in heaping as much praise as humanly possible on Musk because Tesla is literally saving the goddamn world.
Tesla cars do not sure solve the energy problem at all. They don't use significantly less energy than a modern diesel BMW, they just use batteries not oil. The energy crisis we have is more related to how can we produce the energy for the batteries.
70% of oil use is directed for use in transportation. If we can cut down oil use by 70% by switching to fully electric cars, we have no "oil" crisis. I agree that the "energy crisis" is broader in that it also involves climate change, but specifically I find our numerous wars in the middle east more of an immediate concern for US welfare and much more easily addressable (all you have to do is buy a Tesla).
They're around 20%. Increasing that to 50-60% (as you need t consider the inefficiencies of batteries, transportation of electricity, not just the efficiency of the motor itself) won't save the planet. It helps, but what we need is fusion or something like that.
Reducing automotive energy use by a half or two thirds would have an extremely large impact, especially if you consider all of the new autos that will be coming online in India+China. Sure, we still need to switch power generation to cleaner tech as well, but this simplifies the solutions greatly, as power generation will then be concentrated. If we can stop focusing our national attention on trying to secure our oil supplies, we have a better chance at solving the problem as well.
It's only saving the world in that it's a step in the right direction. However, it's not the destination; it's not even the thing that'll get us halfway to the destination.
I think nfm was referring to the media, the established car industry and the financial news industry, rather than a few contributors on Hacker News. I have been asking the same question. Hopefully it won't matter.
Tesla : Model S : Elon Musk :: Apple : iPhone : Steve Jobs
It's arguable that Apple doesn't deserve some of the loyalty that it has obtained, but that rabid fanbase is good for the bottom line. I'm high on Tesla until there is a real quality control crisis or the competitors catch up.
Musk and Tesla are given far more benefit of the doubt than any one else. Criticism is jumped on and scorned very quickly, and is a karma massacre. As such, I normally do not comment on Tesla threads at all. There seems to be little reason applied, its like saying some one's baby is ugly.
If it were a Microsoft car catching fire, or over stating benefits and what not, I suspect the reaction would be very, very different. Im beginning to see Tesla as the automotive Linux. Wont be long until we have people claiming Tesla cars cure cancer.
This fawning attitude, and unwillingness to allow debate and criticism seriously puts me off Tesla. I mean, even you have tried to suggest that any criticism is not reasoned debate, but oil and automotive negative PR. The criticism cant possibly be reasonable, it simply must be a conspiracy of the oil industry. You even say that the opinion should not be written at all. So much for open society.
All this, IMHO, is a big problem for Tesla. When people are being unrealistically positive and rejecting criticism like its some sort of heresy, Tesla becomes an easy target to shoot at. Especially for its enemies.
Too much "one of us" vibe here as far a Musk is concerned. He is a great bloke, and Im am very much in the positive camp, I've been advocating and keenly following electric cars for years before Musk ever got involved and I am 100% glad that a man like Musk has invested loads of his own money and time in to it, but fans need to be realistic and not so silly about criticism.
Tesla and Musk are not the problem, the fans however are.