"...why are you not the least bit skeptical of the standard American propaganda about the civil war?"
Because it is not propaganda it is true. They tried to fight the Civil War for political and financial reasons, it didn't work. No one wanted to fight. The feeling, particularly in the West of the then US, was "Oh . . . the south wants to leave? . . . Well good riddance to bad garbage!" This was the nineteenth century equivalent of "Don't let the doorknob hit ya' where the Good Lord split ya'". So they had to switch, mid stream, to fighting over slavery. Believe me, the people doing the fighting after the switch DEFINITELY believed the war was about slavery. If you believe for a second that those Lutheran fanatic farm boys from Minnesota and Wisconsin gave a hat about political expediency . . . actually if you even believe they could spell political expediency, you are probably mistaken.
The reason Princes and Presidents go to war don't mean anything, what matters is why peasants go to war. In Iraq, afghanistan and in the Civil War the peasants went to war for RELIGIOUS not political reasons.
What won the Civil War was Lincoln freeing the slaves with the Emancipation Proclamation. Why? Because even though it meant very little to anyone else, all of the Lutheran fanatics in Minnesota, Wisconsin, northern Iowa and elsewhere in the upper midwest joined the fight in earnest. Just like when the Ba'ath party all of a sudden found religion and convinced the unwashed muslim masses to send their sons to Iraq.
In both cases, these poorly educated, but deeply religious young men believed that GOD told them to go fight. In one case to free the slaves, in the other to fight the Crusaders who had come to eradicate Islam. Getting your peasants to fight and believe is how you win wars. Its just that most of the peasants in the American North weren't satisfied with Lincoln's word that he would free the slaves. They waited until he actually did it, and then they joined the cause.
As a bonus they were rough and tumble farm stock, who did their own work. They didn't have slaves doing it for them. They planted, harvested, bailed hay, picked stones, and all manner of other back breaking manual labor. They did all of this in deep snow and often sub-zero weather before the advent of central heating, electricity, tractors,or other modern conveniences. Now tens of thousands of them, at a time, could be sent south to take up the slavery issue with plantation gentlemen who caught cold if the temperature dropped below 40 degrees. Do you see where this is going? Add to this the fact that they all believed that God had sent them on a divine errand, and you begin to get an idea of why Lincoln was so sure he could save the Union by freeing the slaves.
The south lost the war with the Emancipation Proclamation.
Now here is the thing, the reason for any war, is NOT the reason the leaders claim. In the end, it is whatever reason the peasants are fighting for. So for Bush to continue talking about freedom and Democracy, when the enemy is recruiting millions by talking about the annihilation of Islam was foolish. The same was true of the leadership of the Civil War south. They kept talking about State's rights. Have you ever tried to explain the primacy of State's rights to ten thousand poorly educated religious fanatics with firearms? I suggest you refrain from doing so.
What the south was faced with were old school jihadis. The Christian kind, which are far more dangerous. Think about it, they would give their lives WITHOUT the promise of 72 virgins in heaven. All of a sudden, the northern armies went from being armies that marched well, and looked pretty, to being armies that fought well, and looked terrible. Just for shits and giggles Google yourselves a picture of General McClellan . . . Then Google yourselves an image of William T. Sherman's ugly mug. Lee himself commented on this change. What do you do against an army that, suddenly is willing to countenance enormous losses just to kill you? You run, which is what most of the southern armies spent a good part of the last half of the war doing. And it was smart of them to do so, maybe with time that fighting spirit will wear itself out in the North. It's just that time ran out for them.
At any rate, you agree with the parent. The reason used to sell the war to the populace is not the same as the reason the war was initiated. So, even if most were fighting for the former reason, the reason that matters is the one that started the war and compelled those who started it to find another argument to sell it to the populace.
My take is: Of course religion is a motivating factor -- it's been the favorite method of getting the masses to do one's bidding for thousands of years.
So _of course_ any serious war effort will have a significant "good vs evil" component to it -- the people have been listening to clergy preach about good and evil since they were children, and so all it takes is a simple hijacking of this meme and you have a grand effort for the cause of good.
Framed another way, religion weakens the citizens' defenses against war propaganda.
I think we're actually saying the same thing... When George W. Bush would get on TV and read a speech about evildoers, he would make the hearts of the faithful flutter with devout feeling. He said those words because he knew what effect they would have -- people, trained to idealize an abstract fight between good and evil, would support his policies.
Because it is not propaganda it is true. They tried to fight the Civil War for political and financial reasons, it didn't work. No one wanted to fight. The feeling, particularly in the West of the then US, was "Oh . . . the south wants to leave? . . . Well good riddance to bad garbage!" This was the nineteenth century equivalent of "Don't let the doorknob hit ya' where the Good Lord split ya'". So they had to switch, mid stream, to fighting over slavery. Believe me, the people doing the fighting after the switch DEFINITELY believed the war was about slavery. If you believe for a second that those Lutheran fanatic farm boys from Minnesota and Wisconsin gave a hat about political expediency . . . actually if you even believe they could spell political expediency, you are probably mistaken.
The reason Princes and Presidents go to war don't mean anything, what matters is why peasants go to war. In Iraq, afghanistan and in the Civil War the peasants went to war for RELIGIOUS not political reasons.
What won the Civil War was Lincoln freeing the slaves with the Emancipation Proclamation. Why? Because even though it meant very little to anyone else, all of the Lutheran fanatics in Minnesota, Wisconsin, northern Iowa and elsewhere in the upper midwest joined the fight in earnest. Just like when the Ba'ath party all of a sudden found religion and convinced the unwashed muslim masses to send their sons to Iraq.
In both cases, these poorly educated, but deeply religious young men believed that GOD told them to go fight. In one case to free the slaves, in the other to fight the Crusaders who had come to eradicate Islam. Getting your peasants to fight and believe is how you win wars. Its just that most of the peasants in the American North weren't satisfied with Lincoln's word that he would free the slaves. They waited until he actually did it, and then they joined the cause.
As a bonus they were rough and tumble farm stock, who did their own work. They didn't have slaves doing it for them. They planted, harvested, bailed hay, picked stones, and all manner of other back breaking manual labor. They did all of this in deep snow and often sub-zero weather before the advent of central heating, electricity, tractors,or other modern conveniences. Now tens of thousands of them, at a time, could be sent south to take up the slavery issue with plantation gentlemen who caught cold if the temperature dropped below 40 degrees. Do you see where this is going? Add to this the fact that they all believed that God had sent them on a divine errand, and you begin to get an idea of why Lincoln was so sure he could save the Union by freeing the slaves.
The south lost the war with the Emancipation Proclamation.
Now here is the thing, the reason for any war, is NOT the reason the leaders claim. In the end, it is whatever reason the peasants are fighting for. So for Bush to continue talking about freedom and Democracy, when the enemy is recruiting millions by talking about the annihilation of Islam was foolish. The same was true of the leadership of the Civil War south. They kept talking about State's rights. Have you ever tried to explain the primacy of State's rights to ten thousand poorly educated religious fanatics with firearms? I suggest you refrain from doing so.
What the south was faced with were old school jihadis. The Christian kind, which are far more dangerous. Think about it, they would give their lives WITHOUT the promise of 72 virgins in heaven. All of a sudden, the northern armies went from being armies that marched well, and looked pretty, to being armies that fought well, and looked terrible. Just for shits and giggles Google yourselves a picture of General McClellan . . . Then Google yourselves an image of William T. Sherman's ugly mug. Lee himself commented on this change. What do you do against an army that, suddenly is willing to countenance enormous losses just to kill you? You run, which is what most of the southern armies spent a good part of the last half of the war doing. And it was smart of them to do so, maybe with time that fighting spirit will wear itself out in the North. It's just that time ran out for them.