>> I have a right to track how people use my site.
> But you don't have a right to say what runs on my computer, or make it tell you what I'm doing. This is where our perceived rights collide.
Exactly! But you also don't have the right to tell him not to send tracking info either. You do, however, have the right not to execute it. For instance NoScript, Ghostery,and AdBlock+ will prevent the requests for this content from being made and executed.
> No, my computer, my browser, my roof, my rules.
I think OP meant that once you make a request to his server, his server is free to do what it wants with that request. I agree with this line of thought because most if not all others are silly.
> No, people get offended when you try to turn their computer into a device that spies on them. And we get more offended that this sort of stuff happens without most people even being aware its going on. They may or may not object to it, but right now they don't even know.
Again, you have the ability to not let your computer send these types of requests for special analytics packages &c. You can't possibly believe that his storing access logs is wrong.
> This is about the only thing we agree on. It's pointless and it was never going to achieve anything.
>> I think OP meant that once you make a request to his server, his server is free to do what it wants with that request.
I don't think they did mean that -
"But you've politely requested that I don't track you. For starters this should only ever be a polite request, not a forced rejection of any tracking scripts. I have a right to track how people use my site."
"People get way too offended by analytics tracking when it's there for their benefit."
It looks to me like they're saying that if you go to their site you have to run their scripts regardless of your own wishes, and that you're 'under his roof' and will therefore do what he says.
>> You can't possibly believe that his storing access logs is wrong.
No, I don't, that would indeed be silly!
I believe that it's rude to try to demand people run your code, and if you do demand it then we need to find a way for me to tell him up front that I'm not going to, so he can decide if he still wants to send me the page data.
I generally agree with you but I didn't read what he said that way. Just in the same sense that the browser has the right to avoid running javascript (or loading ads) that a server sends it, the server has a right to log requests the the client gives it (and certainly every server by default logs the IP, timestamp and request URL). I see it as 2 sides of the same coin.
And though there are many analytics products that rely on running javascript on the client, almost all have fallbacks to 0px images--all that is needed is to comb through the logs occasionally.
OK, I don't disagree with you but I will refer you to the stuff I was replying to -
"For starters this should only ever be a polite request, not a forced rejection of any tracking scripts. I have a right to track how people use my site."
"People get way too offended by analytics tracking when it's there for their benefit."
And the followup by the same OP -
"I'm going to keep an eye on you as I see fit whilst you are in my shop. Surely you can see that as fair?
You are an agent entering my property. This is what your computer does when you access my site."
It seems clear to me that they feel entitled to have their scripts run on my computer. I have no issue with them checking their logs to see what I requested and when. Scripts, cookies, 0px images, each of these are mine to block as I see fit because I own the client, not them.
> Exactly! But you also don't have the right to tell him not to send tracking info either. You do, however, have the right not to execute it. [...]
You're right about both parties' rights. However, dealing with the "Most Trusted Internet Company in Privacy" [1], I expect them to do better than to insist each their rights to the letter. With regard to this discussion, as a novice user, I'd expect Mozilla /not to track me/. No ifs, no buts -- Do Not Track ought to skip all third-party tracking and remove any of my identifying data from their logs as soon as reasonably possible.
> But you don't have a right to say what runs on my computer, or make it tell you what I'm doing. This is where our perceived rights collide.
Exactly! But you also don't have the right to tell him not to send tracking info either. You do, however, have the right not to execute it. For instance NoScript, Ghostery,and AdBlock+ will prevent the requests for this content from being made and executed.
> No, my computer, my browser, my roof, my rules.
I think OP meant that once you make a request to his server, his server is free to do what it wants with that request. I agree with this line of thought because most if not all others are silly.
> No, people get offended when you try to turn their computer into a device that spies on them. And we get more offended that this sort of stuff happens without most people even being aware its going on. They may or may not object to it, but right now they don't even know.
Again, you have the ability to not let your computer send these types of requests for special analytics packages &c. You can't possibly believe that his storing access logs is wrong.
> This is about the only thing we agree on. It's pointless and it was never going to achieve anything.
Hear! Hear!