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How many $/seconds do you think the homepage being down costs?


Since Amazon's retail operations are unprofitable, they're actually gaining money.


They are not unprofitable, they are just quite slim http://www.dailyfinance.com/2013/01/29/amazon-earnings-stron... (It's profit margin on a product is 0.5%).


Without revenue coming in their fixed costs will assure they are losing money.


Good one. Apparently, no one else is capable of laughing.


Is this seriously true?? (If so, where do they make their money?)


It's true that their profit margins can be vanishingly thin, but that doesn't mean they don't make money.

For some classes of items, they can sell at cost and still make money, because their operations are allegedly so good that they can turn over the inventory before their own payment to the supplier is due.

For example, say Amazon buys a book today and payment is due to the publisher in 30 days. They sell the book tomorrow at cost. Now they get to sit on the full price of the book for the rest of the month. In fact, take that money and buy another book, and sell it right away too. Keep that up, and you have a very big pool of money always sitting in your bank account. Money that can be profitably invested in other activities.

Why would a publisher give them 30 days to pay? Because they're Amazon. It's good to be big.


Net 30 is very common, even if you are not Amazon.


And lots of big companies will take 2X or 3X longer to pay you if they can get away with it.



They are optimizing for market share and innovation rather than profits. It's a world domination thing.

I think it's awesome. Imagine if Google had run a bunch of low-rent punch-the-monkey display ads early on. It would have killed them. Facebook vs MySpace is another good example of what happens when you focus on long-term value creation versus short-term profit taking.


Does that mean its a big bate and switch model? Get market share with cheap prices, destroy the competition then ramp up your prices.


With its low profit margin amazon leaves virtually no room for a small size competitor to dislodge them from their share of the market.

Say you want a bite of the tablet market dominated by apple, it's easy, make a somewhat decent tablet for cheap and there you have it.

If you want a bite of an amazon dominated market, well good luck with that, and while at it hope that amazon is not planning to get into the market you're in.

It seems their strategy relies on tiny margins, maybe with a different set or circumstances amazon would change their stance, but I don't think it's currently part of their plans to ramp up prices.


It depends on the product, a lot of cosmetics they seem to be selling at a decent margin and getting undercut by marketplace sellers.

If you are going up against the loss leader kindle though it is going to be a lot harder.


No, they're using low margins to keep market share, indefinitely.

There was an article on HN a couple of weeks ago precisely about this topic, decent read / informative.

Link: http://www.eugenewei.com/blog/2012/11/28/amazon-and-margins

HN Discussion: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5112998


From Amazon's perspective, it's the only way to exist in the long term. If they keep costs and margins low, they don't give their competitors much breathing room to challenge them on price.


which has never worked in history. as soon as you raise prices, you lose market share...


I'm sure it's just a typo. But for the record, it's "bait and switch". A 'bate and switch model is something else entirely.


Lol, yes typo.


More likely the other way around. Destroy the competition and keep prices the same, but push costs down.


Volume, volume, volume!


If each item sells at a loss, more volume certainly doesn't help gain money.


Yes, it does. Maybe not from customers..


I will take a stab. Using these numbers: http://www.statista.com/statistics/197099/quarterly-revenue-...

61.1 Billion dollars (yearly revenue) / 31556926 seconds = 1936.18 dollars/second


That's assuming that they're revenue is spread out evenly over every day and every minute. Which is not the case. Think Christmas, deals, weekends, time of the day, etc...


It also assumes that everybody who goes to buy something from Amazon while its down end up buying somewhere else as opposed to simply waiting until later that day


That's less than I expected! Back at the height of their popularity, I remember hearing that AOL could lose a lot of money every second their servers weren't showing ads.


> That's less than I expected!

That's still a huge amount of money ... $7mm an hour?


Zero, because people who want to buy from Amazon will just try again in a few minutes/hours when it is back up.


Is there a name for the fallacy of ignoring marginal effects at the tail end of a probability distribution? I see it here incredibly frequently.

There will almost certainly be some number of people who would have stopped by Amazon right now and made some impulse purchases. At the scale Amazon operates, the increase in inconvenience to push off the marginal purchase as a function of inconvenience is almost certainly miniscule (See frequent reports on how milliseconds of page load time affect the likelihood of purchase)


Exactly. People say they lose $X/hour. The next hour when they come up, is the order rate back to $X/hour, or $X + delayed demand / hour?

(Surely there's some loss from being down, but it's not a simple loss = current order rate * downtime argument).


I'd be more concerned about the PPC ads leading to a 500 error.


Not completely zero - I can easily imagine how someone trying to buy a gift during a fifteen-minute break would go to barnesandnoble.com or whatever.


I can attest to this being the case. I mentioned it elsewhere in the thread, but we're in e-commerce and when walmart.com went down around black friday last year we saw a 20megabit jump in traffic until their site came back up... and we're only one e-com provider out of many.


Amazon might be able to measure this effect, by taking comparing to their projections over the next day. Imperfect, but...


... or go to costco.com, which is a great site that oftentimes can beat amazon's price.


Not if that customer moved on to a competitor’s site and made the purchase there.


I just went to amazon to buy something I wanted overnight shipping on. It is down, so I am probably going to have to get it somewhere else.

On a side note, the first thing I did was google, amazon down, and saw it was (http://www.isitdownrightnow.com/amazon.com.html) then I came here, and I am proud to say, this post was #1.


It's January, so not much is being lost here. We're looking at the slowest shopping season of the year. My unscientific estimate based on previous experience in retail would suggest sales are probably 1/50th peak Thanksgiving/Xmas volume.

Still, downtime is money, even if it isn't a world-changing amount of it.


I don't know, there's valentine's day around the corner and I was actually shopping on amazon today.


Back when I worked for them (many years ago) I was told about $100,000 in lost orders per minute.


Depends on whether people buy by going to the home page and searching, or just searching on Google.




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